I want to know if I could be facing charges for fraud. I own the bank 100K and I plan on filing for bankruptcy. Right now I there are no charges against me but if I file for bankruptcy can the bank then decide to charge me. It is a case that I took to the police and I told them what happened. There were 3 bad cheques deposited into my account and I withdrew the money. 30 days later I find out the cheques didn’t clear and I’m down 100K. All this happened about 2 years ago and nothing has changed beside my credit report being real bad.

Did you know that the three checks were bad when you deposited them? I am assuming that you were the one that deposited them?

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Originally Posted by Stringer

Did you know that the three checks were bad when you deposited them? I am assuming that you were the one that deposited them?

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No I did not deposit the check myself. I asumed the checks were good because the bank release the funds.

Hello again, help me:

Of course you could be facing criminal charges. I don't think you're guilty of a crime, but that never stopped the DA from filing charges.

excon

Did you fall for a nigerian scam? Where did these checks originate from?

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, help me:

Of course you could be facing criminal charges. I don't think you're guilty of a crime, but that never stopped the DA from filing charges.

excon

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If I could be facing criminal charges why haven’t I been charged yet it has been more than two years since it happened. If they are planning on charging me what are they waiting for?

Hello again, helpme:

I don't know. The key word is "could".

excon

Most likely you have not been charged because the bank was hoping you would still pay, once any civil way of collecting the money is closed, ( they can no longer sue you or garnish your wages) they may look at criminal charges if they are still within the Statue of Limitation for the crimnal case.

So what happens, someone promised you 10 percent or @ that to cash checks for them, and then take the money and send it western union to them, ** OK this is one of the oldest scams out there, and yes, you are guility of fraud, since you put into your bank account most likely frauded checks or stolen checks. And the bank clearing the money does not mean the checks cleared, they do not clear till they actually go to the other bank and are accepted.
The issue is, if they were stolen checks or fraud checks, it may take 4 to 8 weeks for them to be found by the real bank account and reported.

And yes people are arrested and go to jail every month for this same thing when they don't pay this money back.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Most likely you have not been charged because the bank was hoping you would still pay, once any civil way of collecting the money is closed, ( they can no longer sue you or garnish your wages) they may look at criminal charges if they are still within the Statue of Limitation for the crimnal case.

So what happens, someone promised you 10 percent or @ that to cash checks for them, and then take the money and send it western union to them, ** ok this is one of the oldest scams out there, and yes, you are guility of fraud, since you put into your bank account most likely frauded checks or stolen checks. And the bank clearing the money does not mean the checks cleared, they do not clear till they actually go to the other bank and are accepted.
The issue is, if they were stolen checks or fraud checks, it may take 4 to 8 weeks for them to be found by the real bank account and reported.

And yes people are arrested and go to jail every month for this exact same thing when they don't pay this money back.

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Your answer is good but you are wrong about one thing I did not deposit the checks into my account. When I ask the bank who deposited the checks they did not have an answer for me. I have been holding this debt for more than 2years. I also have other accounts with the same bank that are in debt
I received many letters from the bank saying what I own and I have paid a dime since. So at my question is at what point do they we are going to charge you?

I spoke to many different people at the bank and they acknowledge this as fraud and they also said that I’m responsible for the debt.

So funds were deposited in your accoun and you were not aware of the source, yet you withdrew the money anyway? That makes it worse.

There are a few unanswered questions here:

Was this a business or personal account?
Who were the checks initially made payable to?
What kind of check fraud was this (forged endorsement, counterfeit checks, etc.)?

I think you need to be a little more specific in your question before getting a more concrete answer.

However, the other members and the bank are correct in implying that you are liable for this money since you have utilized the funds without proper entitlement.

If the bank has taken a loss, they most likely have filed a police report and a SAR against you already; you just don't know it and its working its way through the system (i.e. waiting for the civil collection efforts to fail among other things).

Another scenario is that the bank could be pursuing recourse through your other accounts.

Or the bank just dropped the ball on this.

An incorrect post has been removed along with orphans caused by that removal.

Just to state the facts, I don't believe bankruptcy can remove a debt that is the result of criminal action. Even if it could, it would not affect the criminal case against the person.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

An incorrect post has been removed along with orphans caused by that removal.

Just to state the facts, I don't believe bankruptcy can remove a debt that is the result of criminal action. Even if it could, it would not affect the criminal case against the person.

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That’s my main concern with this. But I have been doing some research and I know I’m responsible for debt but In Canada there are procedures that banks follow before releasing funds.

1. Is there enough funds in the account to cover the cheque being deposited? (in my case no)
2. The bank should also call the other institution to verify the cheque being deposited before deciding to release the funds.
3.
I have I feeling that there is something else going on that possible someone in the bank involved in this. I talked to lawyers and the first thing they want to know is why the bank didn’t hold the funds?

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Originally Posted by helpmeb4Idie

That’s my main concern with this. But I have been doing some research and I know I’m responsible for debt but In Canada there are procedures that banks follow before releasing funds.

1. Is there enough funds in the account to cover the cheque being deposited? (in my case no)
2. The bank should also call the other institution to verify the cheque being deposited before deciding to release the funds.
3.
I have I feeling that there is something else going on that possible someone in the bank involved in this. I talked to lawyers and the first thing they want to know is why the bank didn’t hold the funds?

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My feeling is - in the US at least - if you withdraw money that you know is in your account by mistake, not your funds, you have committed fraud (minimally) or theft and you can and will be charged. Bankruptcy in the US (at least) does not discharge debts resulting from criminal activity.

I'd worry less about the bank's liability/responsibility here and more about what can happen to you. The "I'm bad but they're worse" defense is not going to work.

[QUOTE=JudyKayTee]My feeling is - in the US at least - if you withdraw money that you know is in your account by mistake, not your funds, you have committed fraud (minimally) or theft and you can and will be charged. Bankruptcy in the US (at least) does not discharge debts resulting from criminal activity.
QUOTE]

Absolutely correct. Utilizing funds that were placed in your account even by mistake is referred to as unjust enrichment.

Take steps to try and repay it.

A bank is under no obligation to check to see if the funds are "good" from the other bank. Banks usually do this, but for some unknown reason your bank did not do this. They are not to be held at fault. You are at fault for not waiting long enough to see if the funds cleared. Or you could have gone to the bank that the funds were drawn on and withdraw the funds directly from that bank and then deposited them in your bank account. Either way, you are ultimately responsible, not your bank. Bankruptcy discharges debts and this is not a debt.

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Originally Posted by twinkiedooter

A bank is under no obligation to check to see if the funds are "good" from the other bank. Banks usually do this, but for some unknown reason your bank did not do this. They are not to be held at fault. You are at fault for not waiting long enough to see if the funds cleared. Or you could have gone to the bank that the funds were drawn on and withdraw the funds directly from that bank and then deposited them in your bank account. Either way, you are ultimately responsible, not your bank. Bankruptcy discharges debts and this is not a debt.

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IF it's not a debt it's a crime. If it's crime why have I not been charged yet? Told the bank I don't have the money.

Hello again, help:

No, it can be a crime AND a debt. If you have the money, give it back.

However, at this point, I have no idea what's going on with you. If they haven't charged you yet, then go on with your life and sop worrying.

excon

<-------- NOT JUDGING

But I fail to see how you could "accidently" draw 100K out of a bank if you didn't know it was deposited to begin with.

The bank taking their time, etc. is probably just them building a tight case against you...

(BTW... I found out today that I had a 3 year old speeding ticket which was dismissed, yet never closed... and 3 years later I got sued by our city for $170... )

Imagine what they will do for a hundred grand...

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Originally Posted by CrimsonPlatypus

There are a few unanswered questions here:

Was this a business or personal account?
Who were the checks initially made payable to?
What kind of check fraud was this (forged endorsement, counterfeit checks, etc.)?

I think you need to be a little more specific in your question before getting a more concrete answer.

However, the other members and the bank are correct in implying that you are liable for this money since you have utilized the funds without proper entitlement.

If the bank has taken a loss, they most likely have filed a police report and a SAR against you already; you just don't know it and its working its way through the system (i.e. waiting for the civil collection efforts to fail among other things).

Another scenario is that the bank could be pursuing recourse through your other accounts.

Or the bank just dropped the ball on this.

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It was a personal account

The checks were made payable to me

When I asked the bank what happened they said the check were deposited by error therefore returned

Btw the follow is the last paragraph of a letter I received from a law firm representing the bank




The aforesaid sums total $98,173.81 exclusive of interest. Unless same, together with interest is paid within ten (10) days of this letter, legal proceeding will be instituted against you without further notice


The letter is dated Nov 8 2006