My daughter got caught for shoplifting. No charges were laid and the cops are not involved. However they did ban her from the mall for a year. Can they do that? The same person or persons that own this mall also own another fairly large mall and a strip mall area and she has been banned from these too. Can they ban her from all three places? To make matters worst our doctor, dentist, eye doctor, bank, dance studio and her work are all located amongst these three places. If she is caught at either one of these places within the next year she will be charged.

Yes... they can. She's lucky enough she hasn't been charged.

Find a new doctor, dentist, optometrist, bank, and dance studio.

... oh, and... you should perhaps discipline her for shoplifting.

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Originally Posted by shop

My daughter got caught for shoplifting. No charges were laid and the cops are not involved. However they did ban her from the mall for a year. Can they do that? The same person or persons that own this mall also own another fairly large mall and a strip mall area and she has been banned from these too. Can they ban her from all three places? To make matters worst our doctor, dentist, eye doctor, bank, dance studio and her work are all located amongst these three places. If she is caught at either one of these places within the next year she will be charged.

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If only it were that simple. It's next to impossible to find a doctor that's even taking new patients let alone a good one. The bank is the only TD branch in town.We only have one dance studio. Etc etc Why don't I just move! Believe me she has been punished. I never thought she would have done something like this but then again no parent ever does till it happens.

True. Sadly, the only thing I can possibly recommend is potentially talking to the owner of the shopping center to see if they'll let you back in... other than that, I'm not so sure I see any other options...

I have no problem banning her from the mall where she shoplifted. That she deserves along with the punishment she got at home. What I don't agree with is banning her from the other two malls that are in two other different areas of town just because they own them. It also wouldn't be so bad if they were just shopping centers but they contain banks, doctors, dentist, etc.

Yes, I do know that this is hard to deal with, but it is a reality. I can sympathize with you about that. My own daughter, years ago, was banned for, I think a year, from one of the malls in the area. I agree with ISneezeFunny about speaking with the owners to see about letting her back in, and would like to ad, if at least to do only certain things and to also only travel to certain areas of the malls. Agreements about this would be best to be handled in writing and with a witness present who could also sign that they had witnessed what was agreed to in writing. If you speak with the owners on the phone or, I would recommend having someone else on the other line and telling whoever you speak to that there is another person on the line and having the witness say something for confirmation. When meeting with them in person, I would also recommend having a witness present.

I am sorry that you are having to endure this kind of ordeal concerning your daughter!

Ok, the doctor, dentist, etc. Do they have separate, exterior entrances? I, personally don't see those as a big deal. She goes, what, once or twice a year? You accompany her. I can't imagine there's going to be a big stink about those.

The dance studio where she goes every week... personally, I would make her go in and talk to the owner of the dance studio (you accompany her), or call them on the phone (her - not you). I think she needs to ask them to write a note on her behalf to the mall owners asking permission for her to attend her dance class(es) there. Just in and out for dance - not lingering or loitering. If her friends hang out afterwards she won't be able to. I think talking to the dance teacher and having to ask for her help is probably one of the best ramifications she can suffer for shoplifting.

I'm with rockinmommy. If you have to enter the mall to get to your medical practitioners, I would write a letter to the mall owners STATING (not asking) that since, her medical care providers are located in this mall that you have no choice but to enter the mall to visit them if necessary. State that any such visits will be accompanied by a parent and she will not be allowed to enter the mall unaccompanied. Send the letter certified and keep a copy.

If they do not answer then you have no problem.

As for the dance studio, you will need to get the studio owner involved. Since he is a tenant and his landlord's actions deprive him of income, then he may intercede.

But you also need to imnpress on your daughter that there are consequences for her actions. If you can't do the time then don't do the crime.

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Originally Posted by shop

My daughter got caught for shoplifting. No charges were laid and the cops are not involved. However they did ban her from the mall for a year. Can they do that? The same person or persons that own this mall also own another fairly large mall and a strip mall area and she has been banned from these too. Can they ban her from all three places? To make matters worst our doctor, dentist, eye doctor, bank, dance studio and her work are all located amongst these three places. If she is caught at either one of these places within the next year she will be charged.

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Purely from a legal standpoint I'm going to disagree with my colleagues -

The shopping mall, although a commercial business, is privately owned property. The owners do not want her there. You could compare this to me ordering her to stay off my property but she comes back to visit someone in my house, just not me.

She will be violating the ban if she enters these properties and can - and possibly will - be arrested.

There must be other banks in town; she may have to give up dance; she may have to find other work; she needs a new Doctor and Dentist. She violated the trust of the shopping mall owners and they don't want her there.

If someone had notified the operators of the mall and/or Police that it would be impossible for her to function within the terms of the ban she would have been arrested and there would have been some other means of "punishment" - and probably also the ban.

Again - it's private property. She has violated the trust of the owners and been ordered to stay away. You or she can make any demands you wish of anyone in that mall - but if she is caught on the property she can and possibly will be arrested.

Inconveniencing her is the name of the game here in the hope it will make a very lasting impression on her. Unfortunately you are being inconvenienced too, but that's not a legal issue.

While I agree with Judy, I still stand by my recommendation. If the mall owners decide they don't want her on their property even if its just to visit the doctors and with parental supervision, then they will respond to your letter saying so. If they don't respond and try to bring charges because she goes to the doctor with you, then, I think they will not prevail in court.

I think, by following my suggestion, you will be taking a calculated risk. I think, however, the chances of them pursuing charges given the circumstances are very small. Frankly, I doubt if the ban is even enforceable from a practical matter. The rent-a-cops that provide security for these malls are unlikley to remember her face and they don't check IDs at the door.

So, if you are careful, enter the mall from the entrance closest to the medical offices, go directly to the medical office and leave the mall immediately afterwards, the odds are very small that you will encounter trouble. If you do and you have proof that you advised them that you would need to visit medical practitioners under supervision, then I doubt if they would prevail in court, though it might mean going to court.

But the risk is yours. I would take it if I were in your shoes. Hopefully she won't need a doctor and the issue will become moot.

Think of it this way, if someone came into your home, and stole something from you, would you keep inviting them back, or would you forbid them from entering your home again?

There is a price to pay for our actions, and this fits that description to a tee.

Sorry it is inconvenient, but you have your daughter to thank for that, not the property owners.

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Originally Posted by progunr

Think of it this way, if someone came into your home, and stole something from you, would you keep inviting them back, or would you forbid them from entering your home again?

There is a price to pay for our actions, and this fits that description to a tee.

Sorry it is inconvenient, but you have your daughter to thank for that, not the property owners.

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I was going to add this as an edit to my comment but hate to do that when the original comment has been addressed -

My husband's pharmacy is in a Mall. When someone is banned we get the list - I think it's weekly - of the names and what the accusation is, whether the person agreed to be banned, paid a fine and was banned, how long the ban is, where the shoplifting took place - the specific store. The list also lists people whose bans are now expired. We cross reference the names as our lease contains a clause - and I don't have a lease in front of me right now so I can't see exactly what it says - that we will operate under the guidelines set by the Mall and enforcement against shoplifting is listed. It's a protection for us - we can report shoplifters - and for the other stores because a shoplifter from our store can't move on down to their stores.

If we ban someone from the Mall we expect the other merchants to respect that ban.

We are specifically advised that the person is banned from the Mall and has no legitimate reason to be in the pharmacy.

We almost NEVER have a prescription for a banned person but there have been occasions when the person has come in and been advised that they are banned from the Mall.

Don't know if this applies here, of course.

Hmmmm. I still stand by my original post, but I can definitely see the valid points made by other posters.

If she were a repeat offender, older, etc, I would tend more towards judy and progunr, but I think that trying to make amends for what she did and earn back her right to conduct business there is a good step in her punishment.

Ultimately, I think the owners have the right to enforce the ban as they see fit. But I also think she has the right to ATTEMPT to "make it right". She may or may not be able to do so. If they won't go along with it, then like Scott pointed out - it's a risk to step onto their property and she may get in even more trouble for it, or she may get away with it.

Just out of curiosity, are we talking mall - with interior common areas, or strip-mall type set-up?

Sorry rockinmonny but a mall is still private owned it is owned by a person or a company. And normally part of the agreement business agree to is for the mall to provide its own security and for the stores to honor the rules that the mall management provide them. This includes honoring bans on people who shop life.

And not only can they but they do every day of the year. The issue is that in most places the statue of limitation on the crime of shoplifting is one year, and anytime within that year they can press charges if they want to. So if the person is banned and goes back, yes the charges can be pressed

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Originally Posted by rockinmommy

Hmmmm. I still stand by my original post, but I can definitely see the valid points made by other posters.

If she were a repeat offender, older, etc, I would tend more towards judy and progunr, but I think that trying to make amends for what she did and earn back her right to conduct business there is a good step in her punishment.

Ultimately, I think the owners have the right to enforce the ban as they see fit. But I also think she has the right to ATTEMPT to "make it right". She may or may not be able to do so. If they won't go along with it, then like Scott pointed out - it's a risk to step onto their property and she may get in even more trouble for it, or she may get away with it.

Just out of curiosity, are we talking mall - with interior common areas, or strip-mall type set-up?

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Got to just repeat one of the points I made - the mall is private property. This is the same as someone coming to your house and stealing. You tell them to never come back. They don't know why because they want to visit, I don't know, your son/daughter/husband. They bring a parent with them to explain and decide to come back and see what you will do. Maybe you won't be home and won't catch them.

I see no lesson to this girl if she shoplifts, is banned and then comes back for whatever reason - dance lessons? I suspect my child would not be taking dance lessons for a while, but that's just me and has no real place on this thread.

Nope, it's private property and she can be banned. Any tenant who allows her back could be in violation of a lease and is pretty much guaranteed that when they (the tenant) has a shoplifter they are on their own.

I agree, Fr. Chuck. That's pretty much what I said in my second post. Although I don't see the harm in her asking her dance studio to make an appeal on her behalf. My tenants ask permission to do stuff all the time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And I think the humiliation of having to ask them would be a good deterrant.

I wouldn't try to get into any stores, but a medical office is not a store. Nor should someone be expected to change doctors over an incident like this. I still think an exception will be made for the doctors.

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Got to just repeat one of the points I made - the mall is private property. This is the same as someone coming to your house and stealing. You tell them to never come back. They don't know why because they want to visit, I don't know, your son/daughter/husband. They bring a parent with them to explain and decide to come back and see what you will do. Maybe you won't be home and won't catch them.

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It's private property, and they have the right to ban her. BUT it's not the same as a home. No way, no how! Part of the "cost of doing business" (not necessarily monetary cost) is dealing with issues like this. I'm NOT saying they don't have the right to ban her. They can do whatever they want. But I think an intellegent business owner has to weigh out issues like this. She (presumably) is a stupid kid who (presumably) learned her lesson and will (presumably) go on to be a contributing member of society. If doctors, dentists, etc lose customers because they are on the owner's "banned" list they may consider not renewing their lease. That's all. But that is the owner's right. No argument from me there.

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

I see no lesson to this girl if she shoplifts, is banned and then comes back for whatever reason - dance lessons? I suspect my child would not be taking dance lessons for a while, but that's just me and has no real place on this thread.

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I guess my point was that the lesson would be in having to go confess to her dance teacher what she did and beg for their help. I agee that if it was my kid they wouldn't see daylight for a long time.

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Nope, it's private property and she can be banned. Any tenant who allows her back could be in violation of a lease and is pretty much guaranteed that when they (the tenant) has a shoplifter they are on their own.

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Again, I agree that the owners can ban her. But, because doctors and dentists, etc are unlikely to have shoplifters and are unlikely to need such assistance, I believe they'd have a different take on it than a store. And if I were the owner I would have to balance out these issues and decide what is the best thing to do.

My resonse is based on believing the mom, the OP. I mean, at what point does the girl deserve a chance to make amends and "re-enter" normal society?

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Originally Posted by rockinmommy

Hmmmm. I still stand by my original post, but I can definitely see the valid points made by other posters.

If she were a repeat offender, older, etc, I would tend more towards judy and progunr, but I think that trying to make amends for what she did and earn back her right to conduct business there is a good step in her punishment.

Ultimately, I think the owners have the right to enforce the ban as they see fit. But I also think she has the right to ATTEMPT to "make it right". She may or may not be able to do so. If they won't go along with it, then like Scott pointed out - it's a risk to step onto their property and she may get in even more trouble for it, or she may get away with it.

Just out of curiosity, are we talking mall - with interior common areas, or strip-mall type set-up?

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She was banned from two separate malls ( the one she did the crime in and another 5 minutes away) and a strip mall.

I've been talking to security and she is allowed to go to the malls for medical reasons provided I call ahead and let them know. She can't attend dance, she lost her job and she has been denied access to the bank to get her money. The sad part of her losing her job is the fact that she didn't want to work there anyway and we were kind of forcing her to work---more or less you can say we have been punishing her all summer ( in her eyes anyway). So all I'm afraid of is that she will think about it and come to the conclusion that there was a brighter side to shoplifting after all. Now all I need is some suggestions for a punishment besides taking away her cell phone, laptop , TV, bedroom door, friends, bank card, bus pass, and not allowing her to go anywhere. I'm hoping she will learn from this and not do it again.