I am moving from Arizona to California. I have a signed lease that lists me as "Tenant" with the words "(MY NAME) - Sub lease of, (ROOMMATE'S NAME)". The owner of the property is listed as "Landlord". The lease is effective 1 week from today so I have not moved in yet. The potential roommate has now said she does not want me to move in, and says she will not allow me to move in for some unknown reason. However, I need a place to live! Does she have any legal grounds as the sublessor to keep me from moving in? My lease is signed with the "Landlord", not her. If he does not allow me to move in, is he then in violation of the lease for not providing me with the place to live? Would I need to take him to court to cover my expenses related to finding a new place? Please help! Thanks! :confused:

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Originally Posted by iceberg68

I am moving from Arizona to California. I have a signed lease that lists me as "Tenant" with the words "(MY NAME) - Sub lease of, (ROOMMATE'S NAME)". The owner of the property is listed as "Landlord". The lease is effective 1 week from today so I have not moved in yet. The potential roommate has now said she does not want me to move in, and says she will not allow me to move in for some unknown reason. However, I need a place to live! Does she have any legal grounds as the sublessor to keep me from moving in? My lease is signed with the "Landlord", not her. If he does not allow me to move in, is he then in violation of the lease for not providing me with the place to live? Would I need to take him to court to cover my expenses related to finding a new place? Please help!! Thanks!! :confused:

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I'm a little confused here - who is your lease with? The landlord? The roommate?

It sounds like it's a lease with the landlord; if so, I don't understand the language and why you aren't both tenants. It's a new lease between a landlord a tenant and then between the tenant and you as the sub-tenant?

Sounds to me like you have a lease with the roommate, not the landlord.

Only the "landlord" can evict you or keep you from moving in.

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Originally Posted by iceberg68

I am moving from Arizona to California. I have a signed lease that lists me as "Tenant" with the words "(MY NAME) - Sub lease of, (ROOMMATE'S NAME)". The owner of the property is listed as "Landlord". The lease is effective 1 week from today so I have not moved in yet. The potential roommate has now said she does not want me to move in, and says she will not allow me to move in for some unknown reason. However, I need a place to live! Does she have any legal grounds as the sublessor to keep me from moving in? My lease is signed with the "Landlord", not her. If he does not allow me to move in, is he then in violation of the lease for not providing me with the place to live? Would I need to take him to court to cover my expenses related to finding a new place? Please help!! Thanks!! :confused:

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Yes, it's a confusing scenario. What I would recommend is finding a new place to live and then suing one or both of them for any extra expenses you incur as a result of having to find a new place.

I mean, even if you could legally force your way in there why on earth would you want to move into that situation?

I'm unclear from your post if you'd be able to go after the roommate or the landlord. But if you have a signed lease and they're not honoring it you have an excellent case. If you look up (google) California Landlord Tenant Law you should be able to find the applicable state laws. (The California link wasn't working a couple of days ago on the sticky on this forum.)

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Originally Posted by rockinmommy

Yes, it's a confusing scenario. What I would recommend is finding a new place to live and then suing one or both of them for any extra expenses you incur as a result of having to find a new place.

I mean, even if you could legally force your way in there why on earth would you want to move into that situation?

I'm unclear from your post if you'd be able to go after the roomate or the landlord. But if you have a signed lease and they're not honoring it you have an excellent case. If you look up (google) California Landlord Tenant Law you should be able to find the applicable state laws. (The California link wasn't working a couple of days ago on the sticky on this forum.)

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The problem is that I do not live in California yet, so I would be unable to find another place unless I travelled back to California to look for a place again, which is expensive and not possible given my time crunch at work (I am working until the day I was supposed to move). I do NOT want to live with this person obviously, but my lease is up here in Arizona in a week, so I at least need a place to put my belongings in a week when I move. I would be open to moving in for a week, and then moving right back out when I find a new place, but I am anticipating the landlord/sublettor will not let me even move in.

I am really just trying to find out how solid my argument is since I am listed as the "Tenant" on the lease with the wording "(MY NAME) - Sub lease of, (SUBLETTORS NAME)". I'm not sure if that completely wipes out my rights as "Tenant" as explained throughout the lease, and gives power to the lady subletting to me. The only other signature on the lease is that of the property owner, who is listed as the "Landlord". The lady subletting has not signed anything on there. I would guess that means I would have to go after the landlord if I wanted to go to small claims court, right?

They can't say that I have breached the contract or broken any rules since I haven't even moved in yet! I have to think they are legally obligated to allow me to move in... any more advice on how I should approach this is greatly appreciated!

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

I'm a little confused here - who is your lease with? The landlord? The roommate?

It sounds like it's a lease with the landlord; if so, I don't understand the language and why you aren't both tenants. It's a new lease between a landlord a tenant and then between the tenant and you as the sub-tenant?

Sounds to me like you have a lease with the roommate, not the landlord.

Only the "landlord" can evict you or keep you from moving in.

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The person subletting to me had signed a lease for a full year from June 08 to June 09 with another person. This other person moved out (wonder why huh?), so the person subletting was paying for both rooms. I show up, and I said I was looking for a 6 month lease, so the person subletting to me said great, let's do it. Since I would not be taking over the room for the rest of the June 08 to June 09 lease, I think it was easier for them to just put me as a sublet. This is where I am confused, as the person subletting did not sign anything on the lease. The property owner is the one who signed the lease, and it says that I am to pay HIM rent. I would think it is up to him whether I move in or not I would think. I am not sure how I should go about this, but I need to figure something out soon as I might be homeless in a week!

Hmmmmmmm. The problem I would see with you moving in for a week and then back out is that once you're in, then YOU would be breaking the lease if you left. Like you said, as of right now you haven't done anything wrong.

Have you talked to the landlord? I'd recommend that. Was the landlord there when you signed the lease? I'd talk to them - they may be unaware of what's going on. Is it a house, apartment, or what? Maybe they have somewhere else you could live?

Is there any chance of getting your work to help out with relocation expenses? Are you transferring or starting a new job?

I would think that all of the terms of the lease would still apply to you - just as they would to the original tenant. What's in question is who is your landlord? The landlord, or the original tenant. And it may be a question that can only be answered in court, by a judge. Some stuff is open to interpretation. Also, were you able to find the California Property Code or Laws like I was talking about. It should address some of this.

I think you show up, ready to move in. When she doesn't let you (a witness to this fact would be nice so she can't say in court that she was ready for you and you never showed up, or something) THEN you can proceed. I suppose in theory you could file a suit for possession at that point, but it's not going to be an instant thing. You'd be better off spending your time to find a place to live (even if it's a Residence Inn and storage unit for your stuff). Once you find a permanent home you can file suit for all of the extra expenses you incurred (hotel, storage, etc.) As of right now I don't know if there's anything you can legally do since she's just told you that you can't live there. I think you have to actually experience damages before you can sue. Not because of something that hasn't actually happened yet.

Have you given this person any money, or the landlord?

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Originally Posted by rockinmommy

Hmmmmmmm. The problem I would see with you moving in for a week and then back out is that once you're in, then YOU would be breaking the lease if you left. Like you said, as of right now you haven't done anything wrong.

Have you talked to the landlord? I'd recommend that. Was the landlord there when you signed the lease? I'd talk to them - they may be unaware of what's going on. Is it a house, apartment, or what? Maybe they have somewhere else you could live?

Is there any chance of getting your work to help out with relocation expenses? Are you transferring or starting a new job?

I would think that all of the terms of the lease would still apply to you - just as they would to the original tenant. What's in question is who is your landlord? The landlord, or the original tenant. And it may be a question that can only be answered in court, by a judge. Some stuff is open to interpretation. Also, were you able to find the California Property Code or Laws like I was talking about. It should address some of this.

I think you show up, ready to move in. When she doesn't let you (a witness to this fact would be nice so she can't say in court that she was ready for you and you never showed up, or something) THEN you can proceed. I suppose in theory you could file a suit for possession at that point, but it's not going to be an instant thing. You'd be better off spending your time to find a place to live (even if it's a Residence Inn and storage unit for your stuff). Once you find a permanant home you can file suit for all of the extra expenses you incurred (hotel, storage, etc.) As of right now I don't know if there's anything you can legally do since she's just told you that you can't live there. I think you have to actually experience damages before you can sue. Not because of something that hasn't actually happened yet.

Have you given this person any money, or the landlord?

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I have talked to the landlord about this and he is aware of what is going on. He said it would be fine with him for me to move in for a week/two/three and then move out after I find a new place, and he would cancel my lease. He was unsure though if she was the one who had the power to NOT let me move in since I was subletting from her. He was going to check on that and let me know. Sounds fishy that he wouldn't know...

Both the landlord and the roommate were there when I signed the lease. I went to the website you suggested and I am still a little confused, as my lease lists the Landlord as the property owner, which contradicts how a sublease should work (the person subletting should be listed as landlord).

What kind of judge would decide this you think? Would this be a small claims matter, or would I have to get a lawyer to handle an actual lawsuit? I have incurred expenses already in terms of my first trip to California, which was now worthless since I am back to square one with no place to live. I have provided the landlord with a check for the down payment and first month's rent, which he has not cashed and wants to give back to me. However, I am reluctant to take the money back, as they are then off the hook completely when they are the ones who broke the lease.

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Originally Posted by iceberg68

I have talked to the landlord about this and he is aware of what is going on. He said it would be fine with him for me to move in for a week/two/three and then move out after I find a new place, and he would cancel my lease. He was unsure though if she was the one who had the power to NOT let me move in since I was subletting from her. He was going to check on that and let me know. Sounds fishy that he wouldn't know....

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Well, I'm glad he at least knows what's going on. Again, if you were to move in temporarily it's unclear WHO would be your landlord. It may not be up to him to release you. You may wind up having an obligation to her. I'm not totally surprised that he doesn't know. If he doesn't normally do sub-leases and this one wasn't worded correctly (it would seem... ).

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Originally Posted by iceberg68

Both the landlord and the roommate were there when I signed the lease. I went to the website you suggested and I am still a little confused, as my lease lists the Landlord as the property owner, which contradicts how a sublease should work (the person subletting should be listed as landlord).

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Is it some sort of "official" form, or just something one of them made up on the computer or by hand? That's why I was saying that it would probably come down to the interpretation of the Judge. Some times they get real hung up on actual documents. Sometimes they rely on the "intent" of the parties - regardless of who screwed up the paperwork. Typically, yes, YOUR landlord would be the roommate.

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Originally Posted by iceberg68

What kind of judge would decide this you think? Would this be a small claims matter, or would I have to get a lawyer to handle an actual lawsuit? I have incurred expenses already in terms of my first trip to California, which was now worthless since I am back to square one with no place to live. I have provided the landlord with a check for the down payment and first month's rent, which he has not cashed and wants to give back to me. However, I am reluctant to take the money back, as they are then off the hook completely when they are the ones who broke the lease.

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I would think it would fall in small claims court. It goes by the dollar value of damages. The thing is, you want to experience ALL of your damages before you sure. You can't sue for the ones you've had so far and then go back for more later. You MAY be able to sue to get a judge to order her to let you move in - to enforce the contract, basically. But that's just a piece of paper. You could still show up with all your stuff and she refuses you entry. Or it may tick her off and push her over the edge.

I totally understand your problem, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree for the solution. I've been a landlord for about 15 years. And through the course of life have had several roommate situations, and of course had friends with weird roomates, etc. I cannot urge you strongly enough to NOT attempt to stay with this person. I think you're in the league of crazy here where I'd fear for my safety. Especially if you (however "rightfully") force your way into her home. She already appears to be completely irrational for cancelling the lease without giving a reason. Make her really mad on top of it... it sounds like a bad movie script. (You did say you're moving to CA, I guess... :confused: )

I 100% recommend getting some sort of written proof (email would be better than nothing) - or a witness besides the owner (who you may wind up having to sue) to the fact that she's backing out. Do whatever you have to do for temporary accommodations. And then once you're settled somewhere new, sue for all damages. It may be worth an attorney advising you WHO you should sue.

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Originally Posted by rockinmommy

Well, I'm glad he at least knows what's going on. Again, if you were to move in temporarily it's unclear WHO would be your landlord. It may not be up to him to release you. You may wind up having an obligation to her. I'm not totally surprised that he doesn't know. If he doesn't normally do sub-leases and this one wasn't worded correctly (it would seem.....).



Is it some sort of "official" form, or just something one of them made up on the computer or by hand? That's why I was saying that it would probably come down to the interpretation of the Judge. Some times they get real hung up on actual documents. Sometimes they rely on the "intent" of the parties - regardless of who screwed up the paperwork. Typically, yes, YOUR landlord would be the roomate.



I would think it would fall in small claims court. It goes by the dollar value of damages. The thing is, you want to experience ALL of your damages before you sure. You can't sue for the ones you've had so far and then go back for more later. You MAY be able to sue to get a judge to order her to let you move in - to enforce the contract, basically. But that's just a piece of paper. You could still show up with all your stuff and she refuses you entry. Or it may tick her off and push her over the edge.

I totally understand your problem, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree for the solution. I've been a landlord for about 15 years. And through the course of life have had several roomate situations, and of course had friends with weird roomates, etc. I cannot urge you strongly enough to NOT attempt to stay with this person. I think you're in the league of crazy here where I'd fear for my safety. Especially if you (however "rightfully") force your way into her home. She already appears to be completely irrational for cancelling the lease without giving a reason. Make her really mad on top of it............it sounds like a bad movie script. (You did say you're moving to CA, I guess........:confused: )

I 100% recommend getting some sort of written proof (email would be better than nothing) - or a witness besides the owner (who you may wind up having to sue) to the fact that she's backing out. Do whatever you have to do for temporary accomodations. And then once you're settled somewhere new, sue for all damages. It may be worth an attorney advising you WHO you should sue.

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This is the blank lease I have signed by the owner of the property:

http://www.kengina.com/T6678237b.pdf

As you can see, it is the standard form through the California Association of Realtors.

The more I think about it, the more I agree I should not even try and forcefully/rightfully move in, if even for a week. Here is my problem though if I don't try and move in: will that mean that I agreed to this "solution" and that lets them off the hook for refunding my expenses since I agreed not to move in?

In small claims court, could I say I demand $1,000 for "stress and lost time that would have been spent looking for a job" or something that's not actually an expense? As it is right now, I could probably stay on a friend's couch for free, but that imposes on my friends, and I would rather have her or the owner take responsibility for this. Hopefully karma will do it's magic, bad for her, and good for you! Thanks for your help!

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Originally Posted by iceberg68

I am moving from Arizona to California. I have a signed lease that lists me as "Tenant" with the words "(MY NAME) - Sub lease of, (ROOMMATE'S NAME)". The owner of the property is listed as "Landlord". The lease is effective 1 week from today so I have not moved in yet. The potential roommate has now said she does not want me to move in, and says she will not allow me to move in for some unknown reason. However, I need a place to live! Does she have any legal grounds as the sublessor to keep me from moving in? My lease is signed with the "Landlord", not her. If he does not allow me to move in, is he then in violation of the lease for not providing me with the place to live? Would I need to take him to court to cover my expenses related to finding a new place? Please help!! Thanks!! :confused:

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Just curious if anything has transpired? Wondering how it all wound up.

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Originally Posted by rockinmommy

Just curious if anything has transpired? Wondering how it all wound up.

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The landlord has mailed the check back to me, and signed a letter stating I am released from the lease. So basically I am back to square one, and now need to determine for sure if I have a case against the landlord or the person subleasing.

Once you've experienced all of your "damages" (expenses) because you were unable to move in there as planned, file a case against the landlord. He can always turn around and sue the tenant since she is the cause of this mess. But going back and re-reading all the posts I believe your contract was with him, and since he's the one who sent you the letter I'd start there.

Good luck. I'd love to know how it eventually works out!