Ask Me Help Desk - Roofing contractor dispute

I hired a roofer last summer to tear off and install new sheeting and new asphalt shingles and install new gutters. When he was finished everything looked good until it rained and a section of the roof started to leak. I called him and explained this to him. Several calls and several weeks later he came back to fix it. At that time he said that it was one of his workers that didn't install flashing against the house where this lower section meets. His solution was to squirt caulking between the shingle and the house. When I complained about it and told him that the caulking wouldn't work he said I should have asked to have the flashing installed. I don't really understand that. Does a little old lady have to ask for flashing installed? Isn't that just part of doing the job correctly? This is why I hired someone so as to have it done correctly. Then he called me and told me that I owed him $1500 more dollars. Part of which I agreed that I owed for the remainder of the job. The other he claims is his cost to have the gutters done because he hired a sub. The contract was for a specific amount and he said when we signed it that he is always right on with the estimate and he would take the hit if he was wrong. I told him that was his decision to hire the sub not mine. According to him this caulking will last a lifetime but when I looked the product up it states that there are preparations that must be done and it must be the correct application for it to last. Neither of this would be true in this case. He just squirted it in. I have yet to pay him any of this $1500 and my roof still leaks. I am looking for advice on what my course of action should be. I haven't called him again because I want to have my ducks in a row in case I need to proceed further. During our last discussion he said to have someone else fix my ceiling and take that off what I owed him. Problem is if the roof still leaks fixing my ceiling will be futile. I'm sure he's expecting it to be a couple hundred dollars. But I want my roof fixed correctly. There are other complaints with this person also. His workers didn't hardly clean up. Scrap sheeting left in a pile in the yard, the scrap brick from the chimney that was torn off left all over the yard. Not even piled. And of course nails. I understand some nails that weren't spotted but I found a whole lot of obvious nails clear around the house. The contract stated that clean up and hauling away was included. Thanks to all who respond.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxRoosterXx

I hired a roofer last summer to tear off and install new sheeting and new asphalt shingles and install new gutters. When he was finished everything looked good until it rained and a section of the roof started to leak. I called him and explained this to him. Several calls and several weeks later he came back to fix it. At that time he said that it was one of his workers that didn’t install flashing against the house where this lower section meets. His solution was to squirt caulking between the shingle and the house. When I complained about it and told him that the caulking wouldn’t work he said I should of asked to have the flashing installed. I don’t really understand that. Does a little old lady have to ask for flashing installed? Isn’t that just part of doing the job correctly? This is why I hired someone so as to have it done correctly. Then he called me and told me that I owed him $1500 more dollars. Part of which I agreed that I owed for the remainder of the job. The other he claims is his cost to have the gutters done because he hired a sub. The contract was for a specific amount and he said when we signed it that he is always right on with the estimate and he would take the hit if he was wrong. I told him that was his decision to hire the sub not mine. According to him this caulking will last a lifetime but when I looked the product up it states that there are preparations that must be done and it must be the correct application for it to last. Neither of this would be true in this case. He just squirted it in. I have yet to pay him any of this $1500 and my roof still leaks. I am looking for advice on what my course of action should be. I haven’t called him again because I want to have my ducks in a row in case I need to proceed further. During our last discussion he said to have someone else fix my ceiling and take that off of what I owed him. Problem is if the roof still leaks fixing my ceiling will be futile. I’m sure he’s expecting it to be a couple hundred dollars. But I want my roof fixed correctly. There are other complaints with this person also. His workers didn’t hardly clean up. Scrap sheeting left in a pile in the yard, the scrap brick from the chimney that was torn off left all over the yard. Not even piled. And of course nails. I understand some nails that weren’t spotted but I found a whole lot of obvious nails clear around the house. The contract stated that clean up and hauling away was included. Thanks to all who respond.

I certainly wouldn't pay him. I would get another roofer - I assume this guy was licensed as should the roofer who gives you an estimate for the repairs - and have the work corrected and then I would sue the first roofer for the cost of making the job right. I have no idea if replacing flashing is "normally" part of replacing a roof - someone who knows will come along, I'm sure.

If you have to hire someone to clean up the yard, keep those invoices and cancelled checks.

Then I would take roofer #1 to Small Claims Court.

The business about paying more because he hired a sub is ridiculous.

I would hope he's a licensed contractor - if he is not and a license is required to do the work in your area you cannot sue him because the Courts will not enforce an illegal contract, which is what a contract with an unlicensed contractor when a license is required, is.

When we had our roof done, no complaints. Roofers brough a dumpster bin and parked it in the driveway and everything went in that as they were working. For clean up, they used a magnet to get all the nails they couldn't see on clean up. There wasn't one thing left behind.

You had substandard work done, rooster. I don't know whether small claims will work or hiring an attorney to get to the bottom of it with a letter stating that you are not happy with the work and would like to be remunerated.

Repairing flashing is included, mine was. They even cleaned out my gutters !

Quote:

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

I certainly wouldn't pay him. I would get another roofer - I assume this guy was licensed as should the roofer who gives you an estimate for the repairs - and have the work corrected and then I would sue the first roofer for the cost of making the job right. I have no idea if replacing flashing is "normally" part of replacing a roof - someone who knows will come along, I'm sure.

If you have to hire someone to clean up the yard, keep those invoices and cancelled checks.

Then I would take roofer #1 to Small Claims Court.

The business about paying more because he hired a sub is ridiculous.

I would hope he's a licensed contractor - if he is not and a license is required to do the work in your area you cannot sue him because the Courts will not enforce an illegal contract, which is what a contract with an unlicensed contractor when a license is required, is.

As usual, I agree with Judy. (have to spread it)

I would DEFINITELY (if he's licensed) take the roofer to small claims. To do this you'll have to have "damages", so you'll have to hire people to correct all of the problems and then THOSE are the costs that you'll sue him for.

The more proof you have, the better. Take pictures, of course, save all paperwork. Did anyone else hear the conversations between you and the roofer?

You definitely have a good case. Sue him before he attempts to place a lien against your home because you haven't paid him.

I appreciate all your responses. That's exactly what I was worried about rockinmommy. I figured if I don't address this soon it may be at my expense. My wife was at the original meeting with him when we hired him and yes he is licensed. I really hate taking this to court but if that is the only way to fix this situation I guess that's what I will do. I took some pictures right after it started leaking and I will have to get more to show the new spots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxRoosterXx

I appreciate all your responses. That's exactly what I was worried about rockinmommy. I figured if I don't address this soon it may be at my expense. My wife was at the original meeting with him when we hired him and yes he is licensed. I really hate taking this to court but if that is the only way to fix this situation I guess that's what I will do. I took some pictures right after it started leaking and I will have to get more to show the new spots.

I don't think you have a choice - gather your proof and sue roofer #1. You do have a responsibility to mitigate your damages - the problem has to be diagnosed and corrected. You can't sit around and watch the roof leak (which I realize you are not doing, you are just determining what to do next) and then expect the roofer to be responsible for all of the damage.

As a licensed contractor in California (I ran and grew a small roofing company to 'mid size' - about 35 people total) I agree with the spirit of what's been said.

FLASHING:
Whether NEW flashing was included only you know due to the contract you signed. Some cheap roofers re-use the flashing; something I would never do. So as to the flashing, if it's in your contract, then you should have had it installed. (I've had plenty of customers ask me why my price was the highest, and ask me to remove items to make an 'apples to apples' comparison to some fly by night roofer. No way. We do it the right way, or we don't do it any way.).

RESOLUTION: I don't know if Iowa requires a roofer to be a licensed contractor, or for that matter whether Iowa has licensed contractors. IF IT DOES (like California) the thing that REALLY TRULY scares a contractor is losing his license. Small claims court is a joke... he's not afraid of not getting his money... and hiring an attorney for $1,500, he'll gamble that no one will do that as the lawyer fees will be too high. Not to mention, there may be some arbitration clause in his contract which would prohibit you taking him to court.

BUT LOSING HIS LICENSE... that'll get his attention. So if there is an Iowa Contractor's State License Bureau, then notify them & file a complaint.

Finally, if you're over 55 years old in California, then there are laws about a contractor taking advantage of the 'elderly'. Try calling up your county/city's prosecutor's office & asking about it.

Good luck.

I would do the following first. I would get an estimate from another roofer to fix the leak and the ceiling. I would then contact the roofer who did the original work, giving him the estimate and telling him that if he does not come back immediately to repair the work, that you will have the second roofer come in and finish the job, deduct that cost from what you still own him and sue him for any differences. You will also be reporting him to the local licensing board.

P.S. to Judy--Flashing is a thin metal install at angle joints on a roof to help prevent leaking. Flashing is generally installed around a chimney or where walls meet roofing or where different roofs are joined.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottGem

I would do the following first. I would get an estimate from another roofer to fix the leak and the ceiling. I would then contact the roofer who did the original work, giving him the estimate and telling him that if he does not come back immediately to repair the work, that you will have the second roofer come in and finish the job, deduct that cost from what you still own him and sue him for any differences. You will also be reporting him to the local licensing board.

P.S. to Judy--Flashing is a thin metal install at angle joints on a roof to help prevent leaking. Flashing is generally installed around a chimney or where walls meet roofing or where different roofs are joined.

Thanks, Scott - I looked it up because we had the roof replaced last Summer and I thought, "Oh, no," but they did replace the flashing. Whew!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottGem

I would do the following first. I would get an estimate from another roofer to fix the leak and the ceiling. I would then contact the roofer who did the original work, giving him the estimate and telling him that if he does not come back immediately to repair the work, that you will have the second roofer come in and finish the job, deduct that cost from what you still own him and sue him for any differences. You will also be reporting him to the local licensing board.

P.S. to Judy--Flashing is a thin metal install at angle joints on a roof to help prevent leaking. Flashing is generally installed around a chimney or where walls meet roofing or where different roofs are joined.

Again, I agree with the spirit, but the reality is rarely as easy.

An analogy would be, get another <insert profession here> to critique the work of a competitor in town.

Assuming Iowa requires licensing - some states don't - then 99% of roofers are never going to bid the job once they find out what's happened. The roofing world is one that is much more like high school than anyone would care to admit. Maybe it's because the majority of owners are hard working individuals practicing the hardest of all the trades... maybe it's because while the successful owner has picked up functional business practices - but at the end of the day the majority of people in roofing don't have a lot of other options for gainful employment. Not to mention that the average (actual) roofer is at the bottom rung on the ladder. They're the first to get rained on, and the last to get out of the heat/sun.

People whine about Mexicans... the truth is that I was paying legals and illegals the same wage and was just happy to find people willing to do the work at great pay rates. (Who was legal and who was illegal was not discussed... illegals had papers that were just as good as legals - photocopiers & computers make a counterfeiter's job a lot easier apparently).

So, put yourself in their situation. You're in HS, you don't have any plan & you need a job. You start working at roofing because a guy like me will pay you for performance (not $8 to start... you're making $300/day after a month, and if you're coordinated & focused you can be making $500/day in 6 months. But it's back-breaking, and seasonal. So, you apprentice for me for a few years, and some other guy for a few years, and now you've your 5yrs of experience & go for your license (after having me and a few other people write & sign legal affidavits testifying that you've the experience; if I lie I loose my license).

So, once you've gotten your license... and I do a crappy job (it happens) on ONE house, do you want to go and show me up? Or do you do what cops, doctors, etc. do? You beg off - saying I can't help you.

Accidents happen. And lazy professionals happen. But trying to get one to turn on the other when they'll have to see each other DAILY at the supply yard makes roofing very different. (I used to see my competitors more than 3x / week).

Go after his license.
Get him arrested if possible.
Don't worry about small claims - he has already walked away from the $ from the sounds of it. And the BBB is a joke.

Also, keep in mind, when contracting for work done, you NEVER want to pay the cheapest contractor - as any company willing to give their work away for next to free is virtually out of business already. Do you want the warranty to be worth anything? (In California, we're all licensed and you can look at a license and see when it was isssued. If you're being offered a 5yr warranty, and the guy says he his company has 20 years of experience... then look at the license & see if that CORPORATION has been in existernse for at least 5 years. You will find that 5-10% will have been. The rest have recently bankrupted their company, legally gotten out of all of the written warranties, and gone back into business. It's just the telephone number & the 'doing business as' name that have stayed the same.)

But the LICENSE HOLDER stays the same - and if you impact the license holder, he may do jail time, BUT DEFINITELY will not be able to license again for any company. That is getting him by the scrotum & not letting go.

Good luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rawsushi

People whine about Mexicans ... the truth is that I was paying legals and illegals the same wage and was just happy to find people willing to do the work at great pay rates. (Who was legal and who was illegal was not discussed ... illegals had papers that were just as good as legals - photocopiers & computers make a counterfeiter's job a lot easier apparently).

Accidents happen. And lazy professionals happen. But trying to get one to turn on the other when they'll have to see each other DAILY at the supply yard makes roofing very different. (I used to see my competitors more than 3x / week).

Sorry, but I disagree with you.

First - I have no idea how the legals/illegals and "people whining about Mexicans" fits into this. In NYS if you hire someone who is not "legal" you are charged and fined. You are expected to review and question and determine the authenticity of their papers. Anyway, I have no idea what this whole paragraph has to do with the cost of roofing in Iowa. (Most people on a public board, when they post identifying info, would not admit to hiring illegals, at least in NYS.)

This is a Small Claims Court question, not a roofing forum. Without a second opinion the homeowner has no recourse. No one is asking one professional to turn on the other - all that is being asked is a price to finish the job and make the roof stop leaking, an opinion of the problems, an estimate of the work to be done.

I see a second opinion all the time in all matters and always HOPE that any profession would police itself.

If you do a shoddy job and your fellow professionals won't do anything to stop you (or, minimally, assist you in how to do a better job), then what chance do the rest of us have?

I was thinking the same thing Judy is. There is no need to tell anyone they are trying to fix a bad job done by a licensed contractor. Just tell the roofer they need an estimate to fix this problem.

If the roofer is good and there isn't a prior blemish on their record, this one instance won't lose them their license.

I am not sure why the flashing was removed or found faulty, but I do know that simply apply caulk with not fix the problem - you will find that you are going to need to replace the caulking every few years to keep the water out. This is only a short-term fix and is not what you want.

As a 15 year roofing veteran, I agree that the best thing to do here is to go after the license. In Minnesota, our license are held my DOLI. Each year, part of our license cost goes into an account to help pay for such situations. The dept. of Labor in Iowa should have a similar fund set up. File a grievance with them and let them know about the situation. If they find that the contractor is at fault, then they should be able to help pay for the fix and then go after the contractor for the money or his license. No matter what you do, you should keep track of all costs, lost days, property damage etc.. For proof of cost.