My ex-husband and I share joint custody of our 11 year old son. He lives 2 weeks a month with me and the other with his father. This was working fine but now things have hit a snag. My son is into Tae Kwon Do and has classes twice during the week and an early morning Saturday class. Both of us have remarried and my current husband and I pay all expenses relating to this activity. Problem - When my son is with his ex, many times he will not take him to his classes (it is five minutes from his house) because he "forgot" or didn't feel like it. Plus the Saturday morning classes at at 8:00 a.m. which is just too early in the morning for my ex. I have offered to come get him and take him to all of his classes so that he would not be put out in anyway. He says that is unacceptable. That our son is with him and he can do as he pleases with regards to whether he goes to Tae Kwon Do or not. My son loves these classes and his dad's unwillness to take it hurts him deeply. Can a judge order him to take him or Tae Kwon Do or at least make him allow me to come get him and take him. Also, ex will not pay his share of any of my son's expenses. I can usually get him to pay his half of medical bills but for any extracurlicular activities "forget it". It is not a money issue. He has it just won't spend it. What things can he be made to pay half of (i.e. school supplies, class trips, braces, etc.)

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Originally Posted by Browneyes0524

My ex-husband and I share joint custody of our 11 year old son. He lives 2 weeks a month with me and the other with his father. This was working fine but now things have hit a snag. My son is into Tae Kwon Do and has classes twice during the week and an early morning Saturday class. Both of us have remarried and my current husband and I pay all expenses relating to this activity. Problem - When my son is with his ex, many times he will not take him to his classes (it is five minutes from his house) because he "forgot" or didn't feel like it. Plus the Saturday morning classes at at 8:00 a.m. which is just too early in the morning for my ex. I have offered to come get him and take him to all of his classes so that he would not be put out in anyway. He says that is unacceptable. That our son is with him and he can do as he pleases with regards to whether or not he goes to Tae Kwon Do or not. My son loves these classes and his dad's unwillness to take it hurts him deeply. Can a judge order him to take him or Tae Kwon Do or at least make him allow me to come get him and take him. Also, ex will not pay his share of any of my son's expenses. I can usually get him to pay his half of medical bills but for any extracurlicular activities "forget it". It is not a money issue. He has it just won't spend it. What things can he be made to pay half of (i.e. school supplies, class trips, braces, etc.)

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Your only recourse is to go back to Court and ask for additional support - in my State it's spelled out - half of medical and dental plus child support. The child support is supposed to cover the incidentals unless the parent who pays that support feels like paying for additional expenses.

As far as the classes - yes, this could be addressed and I think it could go one of two ways (obviously).

A Judge decides that you should pick your son up on his weekends with his father, take him to the class, return him to his father or rules that the father's visitation begins Saturday, after the class, instead of Friday.

OR

A Judge could decide that signing him up for classes interferes substantially with the father's visitation, maybe deliberately and maybe not, and rule that the father has no responsibility for taking the son to the classes on "his" weekends, that being with the father and stepmother is more important.

Depends on the Judge.

I personally would try to work it out because I think the Judge could very possibly decide that these classes interfere with your son's relationship with his father - but that's simply an educated guess. With my stepdaughters it was ballet and the Judge ruled that the lessons interfered with visitation and were scheduled with the knowledge that they would interfere with visitation. The lessons were rescheduled and that was the end of that.

Thanks so much for the response. I think this whole thing is distressing. It is hard for me to see how these classes interfere with his visitation I could take my son to the classes during the week and have him home before his dad even gets home from work. As far as the Saturday morning classes, the only thing these classes interfere is with my ex's sleep. I would have the child to class and returned to his dad before his dad ever got out of bed.

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Originally Posted by Browneyes0524

Thanks so much for the response. I think this whole thing is distressing. It is hard for me to see how these classes interfere with his visitation I could take my son to the classes during the week and have him home before his dad even gets home from work. As far as the Saturday morning classes, the only thing these classes interfere is with my ex's sleep. I would have the child to class and returned to his dad before his dad ever got out of bed.

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So then that's the argument you make in Court and the Judge decides if the class interferes with parental visitation.

If I understand this right the boy is with his father two weeks not weekends. (if I am wrong please let me know) but if this is the case then I really see a judge ruling that it is the father's time and the classes are up to the father. Also I don't see an increase in support because the father has him fifty percent of the time so he would cover half of the medical/dental costs and pay for his food and clothing and other basic needs during his stay with him and you would pay for what ever you want him to do while your son is with you. Again if I was wrong about the time spent with the father please let me know.

I can't rate Judy, but this is true: "Depends on the Judge."

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Originally Posted by Browneyes0524

... I would have the child to class and returned to his dad before his dad ever got out of bed.

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It is very important, most-times, to present the judge with your plan, 'the solution', as well as the problem. If you present only the problem, you may get a backa$$- backwards solution. Courts rarely 'fix' people, especially stubborn ones.

Yes he is will his dad two full weeks. The problem is that is I take my son to all of his Doctor's appointments. His father does not believe young children need to see a dentist. I also pay for his optometrist and eyeglasses. His dad may provide him food and clothes but that's it. I pay his school lunch money, pay for his year books, class trip, parties, etc.

Also, What about what is in the best interest of the child. It seems insane that a judge would deny a gifted boy a right to practice his art because his father is selfish. This is no different then if he were involved in baseball or any other sport. I think I may just have to get full custody of my son back. I am very saddened by the answers. I thought it was a no brainer and a judge would laugh in my ex's face and berate him for being so selfish and not acting in the best interest of the child. I will see what an attorney says but regaining full custody may be the only answer

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Originally Posted by Browneyes0524

...The problem is that is I take my son to all of his Doctor's appointments. His father does not believe young children need to see a dentist. I also pay for his optometrist and eyeglasses. His dad may provide him food and clothes but that's it. I pay his school lunch money, pay for his year books, class trip, parties, etc.

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Yep, daddy is a jackass, not doing what he can, but as little as he has to.

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Originally Posted by Browneyes0524

Also, What about what is in the best interest of the child. It seems insane that a judge would deny a gifted boy a right to practice his art because his father is selfish. This is no different then if he were involved in baseball or any other sport. I think I may just have to get full custody of my son back. I am very saddened by the answers. I thought it was a no brainer and a judge would laugh in my ex's face and berate him for being so selfish and not acting in the best interest of the child. I will see what an attorney says but regaining full custody may be the only answer

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And my advice would be no different if we were discussing baseball or basketball.

As far as your expenses - I have already addressed that. The Court should have addressed that. Go back in and ask that support be raised or changed.

You don't want to hear this but I don't think this rises to the level of you regaining full custody of the child.

Again - you will argue that it is in the best interest of the child to take these lessons; the father will argue that the lessons are, perhaps, unnecessary and disruptive to his family time with the child.

And then the Judge will decide.

I know in NYS the Court did NOT think ballet lessons were/are a necessity of life and also ruled that they were disruptive to the family life with the father.

I see a lot of hostility on your part toward the father and I would be very careful that this is not apparent in Court - and perhaps you are just heated over this issue at this time. If those scheduled lessons appear to be a "got you" in any fashion you are going to lose. The "if you don't do this the way I want, I'm moving for full custody" almost always loses because it's seen as a power play.

Honestly, I have tried so very hard to keep things cordial between us for the sake of our son. I have bend over backwards to accommodate him. He often has me to keep our son during his weeks so he can vacation or go motorcycle riding. No problem. My boy could be with me 24/7. My hostility has bubbled to the top over this recent turn of events. I disagee that I do not have a case for full custody. My son no longer wants to live with his dad and wishes to come home full time. I am the one who agreed to joint custody in the first place because I thought my son needed his father and I did not want his father to try to pressure him to "come live with him" for a while. My ex loves his son but his real motivation for wanting joint custody is so he would not have to make his $600 a month child support payments. For my part, I have tried to keep our son out of this but he is not stupid. He said his dad would rather "game" on the computer then spend anytime with him.

You may have agreed to joint custody but the judge is the one that awarded it and it will be up to a judge to make a change. I honestly don't see a judge giving you full custody. The judge may allow your son to testify in court as the where he wants to live but the judge makes the final decision. I have seen these cases backfire waaaaay too many times for me to feel confident that you will win. If you want any chance at all you will need a lawyer sitting there with you. I realize that you don't like these answers but it's just the way the law works.

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Originally Posted by stinawords

You may have agreed to joint custody but the judge is the one that awarded it and it will be up to a judge to make a change. I honestly don't see a judge giving you full custody. The judge may allow your son to testify in court as the where he wants to live but the judge makes the final decision. I have seen these cases backfire waaaaay too many times for me to feel confident that you will win. If you want any chance at all you will need a lawyer sitting there with you. I realize that you don't like these answers but it's just the way the law works.

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Well said - and what your son does or doesn't want will make little difference. Unless he is in harm's way I don't see his input as being pivotal.

And I agree - these matters sure can and often do backfire!

Please come back and let us know how the Court hearing comes out.

I will. I am hoping ex will come to his senses before this. At any rate, I think I should be able to get the order modified so he will have to pay his part of the braces which are not just cosmetic but also medically necessary due to a jaw issue. Since he has pushed me to this point, I think I will also try to add that he has to help me with incidentals. Is it possible that a judge would make him pay part of his Tae Kwon Do expenses... lol? Believe or not, money is not the issue. It's about principal and doing the right thing. It infuriates me that he would refuse to pay for his son's braces but will buy himself a $20,000 harley. My son needs to know that his father cares about his needs. Because getting ex pay his share of dental and medical bills, I had asked him if we could set up a joint account that we both contributed say $50 or so a month. Then when an expense such as this came up, we could just draw from it with out having to ask for reimbursement for the other. Is there any way a judge can mandate this? I appreciate all the good advice. I do think I need to go see an attorney so we can hammer this out. If this deal has become such an issue imagine what the future may bring. Bigger boys, need bigger toys.

Yes, sorry you can not work things out, but on the money? But on the lessons, while I would wish the father would take him if the child wanted to go, I do not see the court making him take him or requirig him to let you take him. During those weeks he has the chlld, he has contorl over his schedule, any more than him telling you to stop taking him for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Browneyes0524

I will. I am hoping ex will come to his senses before this. At any rate, I think I should be able to get the order modified so he will have to pay his part of the braces which are not just cosmetic but also medically necessary due to a jaw issue. Since he has pushed me to this point, I think I will also try to add that he has to help me with incidentals. Is it possible that a judge would make him pay part of his Tae Kwon Do expenses...lol? Believe or not, money is not the issue. It's about principal and doing the right thing. It infuriates me that he would refuse to pay for his son's braces but will buy himself a $20,000 harley. My son needs to know that his father cares about his needs. Because getting ex pay his share of dental and medical bills, I had asked him if we could set up a joint account that we both contributed say $50 or so a month. Then when an expense such as this came up, we could just draw from it with out having to ask for reimbursement for the other. Is there any way a judge can mandate this? I appreciate all the good advice. I do think I need to go see an attorney so we can hammer this out. If this deal has become such an issue imagine what the future may bring. Bigger boys, need bigger toys.

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Support is intended to cover the Father's share (usually by Statute) of ALL expenses. I've never seen it written as support PLUS lessons PLUS school supplies. I certainly HAVE seen the medical/dental expenses covered and am surprised that is not addressed in your Order.

I've been in and around the Court system for a lot of years. I am in Court more in one week than the average person, someone not involved in a form of law enforcement, is in Court in a lifetime.

I have never seen a joint account set up the way you would like and I have also never seen anyone win in LEGAL Court based on principles. This isn't a moral Court, it's a legal Court and it's by Statute and that depends on the State.

I know you say it isn't about the money - it's about the father buying a $20,000 Harley. Well, isn't it then about the money? Read what you have posted, read it cold, read it like you are not involved.

I know you're upset and I wouldn't be happy either - and for all I know wife #2 is buying the goodies for him - but you really should take a look at your State's custody/support Laws and also get some legal advice here. Other people answering you here are in that same position. Honestly, we're not just making stuff up to give you a rough time.

In some States you cannot apply for an adjustment of support for a certain number of years or unless there is a substantial change in circumstances - and only you know that.

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Well said - and what your son does or doesn't want will make little difference. Unless he is in harm's way I don't see his input as being pivotal.

And I agree - these matters sure can and often do backfire!

Please come back and let us know how the Court hearing comes out.

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As I see it and judy is very correct in her thinking this whole thing could backfire on you and you could lose your son to your ex. He could always make the argument that what your doing is putting the child in harms way by allowing a full contact sport to take place that has no safety boundries. In many sports there is limited contact or at least padding involved. In a sport such as tae kwon doe there are no limitations. That's what the lessons are about. Full contact and overcoming fear. Injury is much more common in martial arts classes then in most other sports. So be aware. This could turn around on you if pushed too far. Another thing you have to remember is that he has HIS own life. Unless he's doing something illegal then its not up to you to decide how he lives it and he must not run your life either. You two decided to get a divorce and now your both separate in your lives.

You are all right. I guess if his dad is a jerk and won't support my son in this activity then it is just really sad. If he is that big a jerk my son will ultimately be the one that suffers and if that is how he wants his son to perceive him so be it. I'm going to talk to the instructors and I'll just take him extra when he is with me. This will cause more damage between father and son then with me. My ex has a grown daughter who will not speak to him because this is the way he treated her when she was young. So he can die alone with his computer. I am still going to see an attorney and get this braces thing settled and will let you know what the attorney says about the classes.

I am feeling pretty angry right now but I pray I can just let it go. This is just a crying shame. I don't think I'll be quite as accommodating to him next time he wants something from me. I am still reeling from the answers. I still have a hard time believing that a judge wouldn't see it my way. It's not that his dad doesn't want him in these classes he is just too lazy to take him. My husband thinks he doesn't want us to come get him because then he will look like the "bad dad". Well hello. He already does.

And again. No No No. It is not about the money. I was fortunate to remarry well. It is just very sad that this man is perfectly happy to sit back and let my son's stepdad pay his way.