At my district court you have to have a public defender for anything and everything.
The cops get you on things that you did not even do and then you have to pay the fine(s) and court cost.
Most of the time at your hearing the Judge talks to the public defender and the police officer and then they come out and tell you what happened. You don't even know that your case was being heard. You never ever even saw or talked to your public defender. They only go by what you told the intake person at the public defenders office and the side of the police officer.
Then you say it isn't fair and they say well you could fight it and take it down town but you know who the Judge is going to believe so you want to waste your time?

My boyfriend got a $15. Fine and $93. Court cost because they pulled him over for having his high beams on on a pitch black road. Then they searched his car without him even having anything to say about it. They ripped up the roof liner and the moulding. Then they had it towed (which cost him $150.) and took him to the hospital to see how much alcohol he had in his system which he passed.

He also got fined for a weed pipe that was stashed in the back seat by one of the passengers. I understand that is legally his responsibility but they searched the car without his acknowledgment or permission.

What ever happened to having to have probable cause to pull somebody over?
Or asking to search the car?
Why can the charge stick when they never even gave him a ticket for the high beams?

Possession of paraphanalia is the most likely charge that they can stick him with. You should know better about having the "conference" in the judge's chambers prior to the actual hearing... happens all the time.

NO they have the 'conference' and NO hearing with the defendant that is what I am saying.
The Judge, the police and the public defender are in the court room not the chambers and they discuss what they should be discussing in the chambers then they give the fine. They have NO REAL ''hearing''.
IF and when the defendant is allowed in the courtroom they do not let them say anything and they are treated like nothing more than a spectator.

You do not get to be present or participate in the court room (so called hearing). They might come out and update you sometimes like what way things look like they are going but you have no real say.
The update is nothing more than it looks like you are looking at about a $300. Fine, your alcohol level was .003 so that was dropped.

They already gave him the charges $93. Court cost and $75. For the paraphernalia
$93. Court cost and $15. For using high beams --on a pitch dark road

Like I said I understand the paraphernalia charge -his car-- but they didn't ask to search so they could find it down in the back seat.

His citation said pulled over for high beams charged with DUI which the hospital test showed he was under the DUI limit.

They did the same thing to another friend of mine the neighbor told him to take the central ac and scrap it.
Then he took him to the same court saying he stole it and the Judge wouldn't let the defendant say anything.

What for Mickey Mouse "court" is this? Even in misdemeanor court here in Ohio things are handled much differently and a defendant can have a for real attorney not just a public defender. Something is not right here.

Apparently the police presumed he was drunk. Possibly he did not turn down his high beams in time to suit the officers and when he was pulled over they smelled alcohol on his breath and took him to the hospital for the test. In the meantime they had called a tow truck and decided to go through his car trying to find drugs or booze to back up his driving with high beams on. Once you blind a police car with high beams they will pull you over and ask what the problem is. Some states will pull you over and other states won't for high beams being on and not turned down. For instance Mississippi and Missouri wont; Arkansas will.

Like I said he had a public defender that is what most everybody that goes there gets.
You go downtown and apply as low income. They copy the paperwork from the policeman and take a brief statement of your side of the story. You never talk to the public defender.
Then on your court date you sit in the waiting room. They call your name and say they will be with you shortly. Then a while later the public defender (first time you see or talk to him as a general rule) comes out and updates
Like you are looking at about a $300. Fine, your alcohol level was .003 so that was dropped.

You have no idea what lies the police man said, you have no idea what the public defender said or did not say on your behalf and you do not get a chance to add anything that may help your case.

I don't know if they are real lawyers or public defenders but they are not doing right by who they are representing when you can't even have a say.
I think they are public defenders because that is what they seem to refer to them as.

It just seems like a money making racket where the average person has no rights.

If you know the names of the "public defenders" who are at that location, why don't you check them out on the Penna Bar site and see if they are attorneys for starters? Real lawyers are public defenders and vice versa. These "public defenders" could be law students for all you know doing summer work. I find it strange for someone who has a 2 year paralegal certificate/degree that you would even post such a question, but that's just me here thinking. It appears you have no real law office hands on experience in criminal proceedings from some of the questions you have posted.

When I asked you "what court" was this traffic court, misdemeanor court, local city hall court, etc. you really didn't answer my question on this but kept rambling on about fines, tickets, etc. Also, your boyfriend went to the public defender's office to get an attorney rather than hire one privately. Public defenders as a rule usually don't sit down and spend a whole heck of a lot of time with anyone unless they're charged with a felony as they just don't have the time or manpower to do this sort of thing.

What they teach you from the books and what they do seem to be two different things.
The public defenders do not even tell you their names or anything they are just assigned to you and you don't even get to talk to them. You get them from the city county building downtown Pittsburgh over 10 miles away. They are not 'from here' exactly. I never was taught in paralegal school that they were allowed to just process you through like cattle with no say. Other than Child Protective Service I have never seen ANY court or district court run that way.
Then if you say anything about the way they do anything they say stuff like they have the authority and who is going to be believed you or authorities.

I must of missed the question about if it was traffic court, misdemeanor court, etc...
It is the local district court and the Judge is a magistrate.

I just don't see how it is legal for them to handle the things the way they are.
The old magistrate you got the public defender and they read your side then before court they asked you if there was anything you wanted to add and you went into the court room and the Judge asked questions to hear anything pertinent to get a better picture.
Even with that you were only in the court room 5 to 10 minutes but at least it felt fairer than what lies the police man said, you have no idea what the public defender said or did not say on your behalf and you do not get a chance to add anything that may help your case.

All I want to know is what ever happened to stopping somebody for probable cause instead of
Stopping them because they wanted to bully you?

What ever happened to searching cars according to the plain view law and supposedly asking permission first?

And what ever happened to a fair hearing where you are at least present if nothing more?

How can they fine you for high beams on a pitch black road?

Those are what I want to know.

You were not there to see just what happened the night your boyfriend got stopped or what he said or how he acted when he was stopped. He may have been acting suspicously. You don't know.

As I said above, a driver can be stopped due to high beams on. Maybe he didn't turn them down in time, or he passed a police car at the side of the road and the police car decided to stop him to see what the problem was. Not too long ago a friend of mine got stopped for shining a flashlight out the window of his van at night on an old country road in the middle of the night. A cop passed by and immediately turned around and stopped the van driver. Apparently cops like to stop people at night. It seems they get "luckier" at night catching people doing things they should not be doing (or so it seems). This is nothing new - either here in Ohio or in Florida to my knowledge. My son was a Florida Highway Patrol Assistant who rode regularly with a Sargent all hours of the day and night. The Sgt stopped cars for a variety of reasons. It could be for a clearance light out, a tail light out, or someone who blew through a stop sign. A lot of drug courier are caught at night in Florida and are stopped for the dumbest things. Yes, the troopers there "get lucky" at night.

The business of searching a car - like I said he was already being detained for possible drunk driving. It is also up to the policy of the dept and what is in their handbook how they proceed with searching a car. Like I said, they may have been looking for an open container or possible drugs. They did find the pipe in the back seat.

As far as a hearing is concerned, why didn't he have a privately retained attorney? What do you expect for free representation out of the public defender's office, Perry Mason maybe?

You CAN call the "public defender's" office and ask them for a listing of the names of the public defenders. Just because no one takes the time and formally introduces themselves to your boyfriend means nothing. You basically get what you pay for...

If your scenerio is different than what the "old" magistrate followed a few years ago, you could contact the Public Defender's office at the main Courthouse location (as obviously that court was just a satellite court) and ask them what sort of procedure is followed by their office there at the main courthouse. Basically, the whole thing boils down to this is a satellite courtroom and they can do whatever their hearts desires. Have you spent any time sitting in the courtroom yourself and witnessed exactly what goes on, or did you just hear all this second hand from the boyfriend?

I have been in that court room and others many times and I do see that they sit behind closed doors and the defendant has no idea what is being said or not said.

So basically it is acceptable now to not sit in the court room and hear your case just because you are too poor to hire a lawyer?

When he was stopped the other policeman with him shrugged his shoulders and looked at my boyfriend like " I have no idea why he is doing this"
And the two white guys that were with him the police man just said to them ''get out of here"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by N0help4u

All I want to know is what ever happened to stopping somebody for probable cause instead of
stopping them because they wanted to bully you?

What ever happened to searching cars according to the plain view law and supposedly asking permission first?

And what ever happened to a fair hearing where you are at least present if nothing more?

How can they fine you for high beams on a pitch black road?

Those are what I want to know.

---

So he and the cop passed each other, and he had on his high beams? In any state I've ever lived in it is a law that you must turn down your high beams within a certain distance of an oncoming vehicle. Except for the people on the road that night, who's to say if he turned them down, if at all, within the right amount of distance?? So yes, I'd say that's a good enough reason to pull him over.

As far as the search... I'll bet you a million bucks they didn't "search" his vehicle. They "inventoried" it because it was being impounded. I recently had someone get taken into custody at one of my properties and the police said they HAD to impound his vehicle. They then started going through it, and when I said, "I thought you had to have a warrant to do that" they told me that they weren't searching it, they were REQUIRED to do an inventory, so that if anything came up missing/damaged/whatever when the person came to reclaim their vehicle, they had an accurate list of what was in there when they handed it over to the tow truck driver. And if they came up with anything illegal in the process they were free to charge him with that, as well. He was picked up for outstanding warrants, and they proceeded to radio in additional possession and paraphernalia charges. (Don't get me wrong - the guy I'm referring to NEEDED to be locked up.)

I'm sure the defendant does have a "right" to attend the hearing, yadda, yadda, yadda. I'm sure he's free to file an appeal if he wasn't tried fairly. The problem is enforcing all of that. If a person doesn't have the $$ to hire an attorney then they get what they get.

No the police were not coming in the opposite direction. They came from a side street and pulled up behind him and stopped him.
They searched the car and pulled down the lining and the molding pretty much before they did much of anything else.

You missed the whole thing here...
Basically, if your boyfriend did hire an attorney it would have cost him probably in the neighborhood of $1,200+ for representation. (I'm just guessing about the fee here - could be more or less). He goes to court and wins. Wins what I don't know. But he does not have to pay the court costs or the fine.

What were his actual out of pocket costs - court costs, fines, etc. (everything but the towing costs which cannot be calculated in as he would have to pay that regardless). Ok. Probably costs a lot less the way it actually went down. Am I right or wrong on the costs? Also, he could have gone to jail for paraphanalia possession.

Having worked in a law office for criminal attorneys I saw it all. As a good criminal attorney friend of mine so aptly put it "You're only as guilty as how much money you have". Think about it. That man said it all.

Or he could count his losses and consider it a lesson learned. Don't drive around late at night as cops tend to wonder why any good citizen is out that late rather than be in bed. You did mention something about a bar problem he had in another post so I'm thinking they have him on their "list" of people they like to check up on when the opportunity arises. Basically get off their radar is the answer. Don't give them any reason to pull you over.

And that is exactly why I think they can get away with it because NOBODY that goes to that court can afford to pay a lawyer they would rather pay the bogus fine. And if they can afford a lawyer it goes downtown. So basically they can railroad you because you are poor.
Now I am afraid to drive through that town at night because I don't want to get pulled over for having high beams on and I do not want to get pulled over for being afraid to use them.

The bar problem was a guy from 10 yrs ago, NOT him.

A lot of small towns like to generate cash for their towns by using the cops to do it. A teeny tiny town in Florida right outside Ft. Lauderdale called Hacienda Village used to have a speed trap that generated a lot of cash for their teeny tiny town. The town was absorbed by Ft. Lauderdale a few years later. The cops and the judge would make out like bandits (almost literally). It also could be a case of the cops wanting to keep out "outsiders" from their town. It would behoove you and your boyfriend to take a different route at night and totally avoid this place like the plague.

Yeah that seems to be about it. Now he has to figure out how to pay fines he can't afford.
The very next day, probably 24 hours later, that Chicago sports player got pulled over and hosed by the police.