Hi Tom,

You helped me before with a shower issue. Now, I have a toilet problem. I am going to replace the tile in our bathroom and want to replace the toilet too. When I removed the toilet, I was disappointed to find that things underneath didn't look the way they looked on the internet tutorials I had seen. I think our 4" waste pipe (not sure of the terminology) is made of cast iron. There is a groove around that and another cast iron (?) ring around that that measures 5.5" in diameter. There doesn't seem to be a flange at all. There had been two small bolts, but the toilet came out so easily that I'm not sure that the bolts were holding it at all. Can I buy something to repair this, or do I need a plumber? I've read about compression flanges or expansion flanges. Can pvc connect to cast iron? Will that 5.5" outer ring get in the way? From what I've read, my old flange (from 1959-I think) was put in using lead and oakum. Thanks.

That cast iron "outer Ring" sure sounds like a closet flange to me. If the slots are broken they make a flange repair kit, (see image) This is much easier then removing the lead and oakum joint and replacing the flange. You won't be able to connect a PVC flange to a cast iron closet bend. Your best and least expensive way to go is the repair kit. Good luck, Tom

Hi Tom,
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I'm not really sure of the best way to ask a follow-up question. I hope I haven't messed up. You're probably right about the outer ring being a flange, but there are no holes or anything in this outer ring. I wouldn't know how to attach that repair piece. I read elsewhere on Ask Me about a torque set closet flange. Would that be something for me? Thanks.

If you have place piece of cast iron pipe sticking out from the ground than you have to use Cast Iron closet flange. They sell them in 2" and 4" depths. Chose the one that will fit your installation. You slide flange over the pipe and tighten up the 3 s.s. bolts with torque wrench. Then you can install your toilet

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Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal

If you have place piece of cast iron pipe sticking out from the ground than you have to use Cast Iron closet flange. They sell them in 2" and 4" depths. Chose the one that will fit your installation. You slide flange over the pipe and tighten up the 3 s.s. bolts with torque wrench. Then you can install your toilet

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I agree, but first you must remove the old flange and lead and oakum joint.
To remove a poured lead and oakum joint take a 3/8" drill bit and drill a few holes down past the lead and into the oakum.. Push a screwdriver under the lead ring and lever it up. Once it's free you can began to peel the lead ring out. Now pick out the oakum and you can pull the joint apart. Good luck, Tom

Thanks, guys. How do I know whether I need the 2" or 4" closet flange? Also, sorry to sound so dumb, but I'm not positive about some of the terminology. I've never done this work before. Not sure what oakum looks like or exactly what the definition of "joint" is. Is a tiorque wrench the same as an allyn wrench? Thanks for being so patient. Would Home Depot probably have the cast iron closet flange?

Look at how much space and depth you have around your pipe. If the pipe is flush with the surface of the floor than you should be save with 2". If your pipe terminates inch or two bellow the floor than you want to use 4" flange. It reaches deeper and grabs the pipe lower.

QUOTE=david p]Thanks, guys. How do I know whether I need the 2" or 4" closet flange? Also, sorry to sound so dumb, but I'm not positive about some of the terminology. I've never done this work before. Not sure what oakum looks like or exactly what the definition of "joint" is. Is a tiorque wrench the same as an allyn wrench? Thanks for being so patient. Would Home Depot probably have the cast iron closet flange?[/QUOTE]
Hey David, Back to the Basics !!

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Not sure what oakum looks like or exactly what the definition of "joint" is

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Oakum is the stuff under the lead that you will pull out.

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what the definition of "joint"

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A "joint" can be any connection , but in this case it's a poured and caulked lead and oakum joint that you see around the cast iron color.

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How do I know whether I need the 2" or 4" closet flange?

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Easy1 They don't make 2" closet flanges. 3 and 4 inch are the most used. Measure the inside diameter of the pipe to tell. If you're asking about the depth I would go with the 2" deep one.

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Is a tiorque wrench the same as an allyn wrench?

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No, the two are completely different.
Follow Milos advice and install a No Caulk Closet Flange(see image) If yhou can't pick one up locally click on back and we'll give you a link. Good luck, Tom

Thanks for all the education, guys. Is it okay if my waste pipe extends above the subfloor (I've removed ceramic tiles in this area)? It seems strange, but one side of the waste pipe seems to extend about 1/2" above the subfloor while the other side extends a full inch above the subfloor? If this is ok, I would guess that I should use the 2" long replacement closet flange.

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Is it okay if my waste pipe extends above the subfloor

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No Dave,
It's not OK. The pipe wants to be level with the floor.

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one side of the waste pipe seems to extend about 1/2" above the subfloor while the other side extends a full inch above the subfloor?

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This really bothers me. If the raiser/.closet bend's cocked then the flange won't set correctly. Did the collor fit square to the floor when you removed the toilet? If the pipes cocked then it will have to be straightened up before a flange can be installed. Let me know if that's the case. Regards, T^om

Hi guys,

I'm not sure if the collar fit square to the floor before. The toilet always seemed okay. It definitely does extend above the level of the floor (more on one side than the other). I'm not sure how to fix this problem. If it was this way before, might it be okay for it to be this way now? Thanks.

Dave, You're killing me here! Every time you post you start a new thread. Then I have to go back and merge the new posts.so I don't have a page full of single David posts. Just click on your thread and piggy back on the others I have merged. Thanks.
Before we go any farther I have to know if that pipes coming out of the floor cocked, or, is the top of the pipe cut on a bias,(slant). You can't set a closet flange on a cocked pipe. If the raiser/closet bend's cocked the cement will have to come up and the pipe leveled up. Let me know. Tom

Toilet will absorb some pipe. I am not sure how much but it will. Test it first: take your toilet and dry-position it over the pipe. You will see if the bowl will touch the floor all the way around. If you feel it hits top of the pipe than you will have to take 4" diamond blade in small grinder and grind it down a bit.

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Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal

Toilet will absorb some pipe. I am not sure how much but it will. Test it first: take your toilet and dry-position it over the pipe. You will see if the bowl will touch the floor all the way around. If you feel it hits top of the pipe than you will have to take 4" diamond blade in small grinder and grind it down a bit.

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But Milo,
If the raiser's cocked then squareing off the top will still leave you with a cocked pipe to install the flange on. I'm attempting to get David to put a torpedo level on the inside of the raiser and let me know if it's cocked and how much. If one side of the raiser's a half inch above the other then we have a problem on our hands, Cheers, Tom

I cannot imagine what would make it to be out of alignment. I don't believe it is cocked too much. The old toilet worked fine, right ? If you have raised foundation than I would take 2"x4" piece of lumber, insert it into the pipe and gently applied pressure towards the right direction.

If it is on slab than he has very few options. The flange ring will absorb some unevenness. If worse come to worst than he could put flanged wax ring into the pipe, set toilet on top of it, drill holes into concrete floor and install bolt right into the concrete.

Otherwise, the proper way to proceed in this situation would be - of course - to break concrete to reach first hub, loosen the 90 and position it the way it should be. But it is the (very) hard way of approaching this problem

Milo, I guess you didn't read,

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there doesn't seem to be a flange at all. There had been two small bolts, but the toilet came out so easily that I'm not sure that the bolts were holding it at all.

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Looks like the bowl was just setting on the floor. If the pipe's cocked he won't be able to set a flange not it. That's why I was trying so hard to find out just how cocked it was. If it's too cocked to set a flange on, (and with side a half inch taller then the other it sure sounds all cocked to hell). He has few options. As you pointed out. He could cut the pipe flush with the floor, Use a wax ring with a funnel and bolt directly to the floor using plastic inserts and screw type closet bolts. That's how we used to set toilets back in the old days. I still want to know how cocked that raiser is. Regards, Tom

I have a 3 inch cast iron waste pipe when I pulled the toilet up the cast iron flange came off. Should I purchase a 3 inch cast iron flange and how do I sucure it back to the pipe.

IceBird: Sorry, I am not aware of any 3" C.I. closet rings. All we work with are 4" rings. You should be able to reinstall the old one - if it has 3 s.s. bolts. If not, call Ferguson Enterprises. If 3" ring exists, they'll have it. Good Luck !