Hello,

I am trying to finish my basement and I have a roughed in bathroom.
I am planing to install a Mirolin Empire KD53RAW tub/shower
Mirolin Industries Corporation

http://www.mirolin.com/pdf/84%20062.pdf This is the installation instruction.

The small drain for the tub, I need to move by about 1 foot. Then I need to add another drain for the sink. The existing small drain already has a P-trap.

How do I go about this? I need to break the concrete and move the existing tub drain.
What am I going to see underneath the concrete? Do I need to move the P-trap when I move the drain?

When adding the other drain for the sink, can I just connect it to the tub drain in the new location? Do I need to add another P-trap?

The sink I would like to add is a pedestal type.
American Standard Canada | Bathroom Products

What does the 4" and 8" on centers mean?

Thanks in advance for any help.

roacan

Tub drain has its own P-trap that is below the floor level. Tub connects to it directly. Tub and sink cannot share same trap. Looking at your pix, you will have to break bit of concrete for the drain to align with your tub. Also, this will be true if you have set position for the tub and cannot compromise. But, if possible, place tub in a way so you don't have to break any concrete. Build Left and Right walls according to tub position.

Unfortunately, your sink is far away from your plumbing. You will have to drill through studs and run horizontal drain. That stub-out on the wall labeled "vent?" is probably there for sink - but it appears to be too high. You will have to cut that vertical pipe about 13" above the floor, glue in new SanitaryTee, drill through the stud wall all the way to the sink location and terminate there with 90 ell. Slope it 1/4" per foot. Use 1 1/2" pipe. For ped-lav, you don't want to end up lower than 17" above the floor. Also, you will need to vent this sink drain. You can either install AAV vent (the easy way) or run vent back to that vertical pipe and reconnect below the ceiling ( the hard way).

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Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal

Tub drain has its own P-trap that is below the floor level. Tub connects to it directly. Tub and sink cannot share same trap. Looking at your pix, you will have to break bit of concrete for the drain to align with your tub. Also, this will be true if you have set position for the tub and cannot compromise. But, if possible, place tub in a way so you don't have to break any concrete. Build Left and Right walls according to tub position.

Unfortunately, your sink is far away from your plumbing. You will have to drill through studs and run horizontal drain. That stub-out on the wall labeled "vent?" is probably there for sink - but it appears to be too high. You will have to cut that vertical pipe about 13" above the floor, glue in new SanitaryTee, drill through the stud wall all the way to the sink location and terminate there with 90 ell. Slope it 1/4" per foot. Use 1 1/2" pipe. For ped-lav, you don't want to end up lower than 17" above the floor. Also, you will need to vent this sink drain. You can either install AAV vent (the easy way) or run vent back to that vertical pipe and reconnect below the ceiling ( the hard way).

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Hello Milo,

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, I can't align the tub to match the drain. When I move the existing drain, do I have to move the P-trap as well? I am not sure what it looks like under the cement.

That "vent" on the wall that I have to move to be 13" from the floor, will it smell when I cut it?

Also, the "vent" on the wall is 16" on center from the floor

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But, if possible, place tub in a way so you don't have to break any concrete. Build Left and Right walls according to tub position.

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I have a problem with this answer since the tub waste and overflow will connect to the trap raiserunder the floor line. A 12" square tub dap-out hole will have to be cut into in the cement. I would open up the cement back far enough to 45 over to the new trap location.

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When I move the existing drain, do I have to move the P-trap as well?

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The "P" trap is what you must move. The trap raiser must line up with the tub waste.

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What does the 4" and 8" on centers mean?

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They indicate the distance between the center of one valve inlet to the other. Depending on what model pedestal lavatory you choose they will accept either a 4 or 8 inch center faucet.

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But, if possible, place tub in a way so you don't have to break any concrete. Build Left and Right walls according to tub position.

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I have a problem with this answer since the tub waste and overflow will connect to the trap raiser under the floor line. A 12" square tub dap-out hole will have to be cut into in the cement. I would open up the cement back far enough to 45 over to the new trap location.

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When I move the existing drain, do I have to move the P-trap as well?

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The "P" trap is what you must move. The trap raiser must line up with the tub waste.

They indicate the distance between the center of one valve inlet to the other.
Milo said,

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That stub-out on the wall labeled "vent?" is probably there for sink - but it appears to be too high. You will have to cut that vertical pipe about 13" above the floor

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Quite the opposite, with the pedestal lav you wish to install American Standard recommends 521 mm. or 20 1/2 inches off the floor to the center of the stub out. If you have enough room behind the trap you could install a AAV but if there isn't enough room you witt have to cut in a up turned tee in the laterial drain in the wall and revent back to the vent stack.
To set the sanitary tee on the stack figure 1/4 times the length of the drain arm from vent to lav and lower the san tee accordingly. For instance, if the lav were 10 feet from the vent you would have 2 1/2 inches of slope so your san tee would rough in at 18" off the floor to center for a 20 1/2" stubout. And you would have to set your revent tee at 5 feet from the stub out.
More questions? We're as close as a click. Tom

4" or 8" on center usually refers to spread of holes for faucet on your sink and / or type of faucet you want to use. You purchase your faucet accordingly ( or vice-versa ). 4" on center faucet (most of the time ) comes in one piece, 8" comes in 3 pieces (spout, hot stem, cold stem).

Unless, of course, Tom rephrases it his way... :D :D :D

Thanks for your answers.

Is it OK to have a slope greater than 1/4" per foot? I would rather leave where the "T" is and just slope the drain from sink to meet the "T".

I measured all the outside diameter of the pipes and this is what I got;
The pipe sticking out of the floor has a 1.9" OD (1-1/2"). Same as the one one the wall with the "T".
This 1.9" OD pipe on the wall connects to a 2.3" OD (2") pipe that goes straight up. I think this is the one that sticks out of the roof. Is it OK to attach the sink drain into this "T" on the wall? The guy at Home Depot told me that AAV is not allowed in Canada. I am at Windor Ontario. So I have to connect back to the vent maybe somewhere on top?

I was just at Home Depot asking about renting some tools to cut up the cement and the guy was asking in what direction are the pipes underneath the cement goes. Does it matter?

roacan: the problem is that the pipe you want to connect to is dedicated vent for your tub. If you connect your new sink drain to it ( as somebody already made that provision - viz your photo ), than - according to our Plumbing Code - it would be illegal to connect to it. By our Code, drain would have to be connected somewhere below the concrete to horizontal drain. Then, vent can connect to your tub vent above anti-siphon level ( about 48" above the floor ). If you connect to it the way it is now, you will create so called "wet vent". This would not be permissible by Plumbing Code in my area. AAV vent is OK in half of the States and not allowed in other States. Therefore, and just like with any other issue in this forum, opinions will vary based on geo-location of the responder.

But a wet vent's legal in my area. If the tub connects to the lavatory drain then it's not a "dedicated vent" for the tub but a lavatory vent that vents the entire group. It would make no sense for the plumber to rough in a lav stub out on a dedicated vent, and unless there was a lav added, and it doesn't look like there was, then the set up runs like this. Toilet connects to sewer main. Lavatory connects to toilet drain and runs a vent off the top the stubout tee out the roof or revents back into a dry vent in the attic.. The toilet wet vents through the lavatory vent and the tub/shower connects to the lavatory drain and is wet vented by it. This is a normal rough in and is acceptable both by local and state codes and also The Standard Plumbing Code Book in 90 percent of the country. Check your local codes to make sure you're not in the excluded 10 percent.. The vent off the lavatory looks like it was extended out the roof which is a large plus for you. Sure lookis like that's the way it was roughed and if it was then it's acceptable in 90% of the country.
Milo and growlers code don't allow wet vents under UPC. I'd say go with the way the plumber roughed you for. BTW it looks like you were roughed for a shower instead of a tub. Good luck, Tom.

I have to check my local code for what is allowed in my area. But from what is roughed in by the plumber, you can say that the "T" in the wall is for drain of lav.

IF a wet vent is allowed in my area, then I can connect the drain for the lav to the "T" on the wall. Since the associate from Home Depot said that AAV is not allowed in my area, I have to connect a vent for the lav somewhere close to the ceiling on the 2" pipe that the lav is draining. The studs on the wall is 3.5" wide. If I cut a hole on these studs for the lav drain and vent, there won't be much material left. This studs is NOT load bearing.

Is it OK to have a slope greater than 1/4" per foot?

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Originally Posted by speedball1

BTW it looks like you were roughed for a shower instead of a tub. Good luck, Tom.

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What should I do to make the drain sticking out of the floor for use on a tub? Is it because of it's size? It is 1-1/2". When I move this drain on the floor to the location needed by the tub, should I change the size of the pipe?

When cutting the cement floor, how far or how wide should I cut the cement from the existing drain on the floor?

Thanks!!

In my area, it is perfectly OK to drill - but not cut. You can purchase Lenox or Milwakee drill bit that is made exactly for 1 1/2" ABS pipe.

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you can say that the "T" in the wall is for drain of lav? Is it OK to have a slope greater than 1/4" per foot? I would rather leave where the " per foot? I would rather leave where the " is and just slope the drain from sink to meet the " is and just slope the drain from sink to meet the ".

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That's about it could be. My bet is that you were roughed in exactly as I said it was. The 'placement, the heigth, if it looks like a duck,etc. It's a lavatory stub out and that pipe going up vents the group. Your big hassle will be converting a shower rough in to a bath tub rough in.

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When I move this drain on the floor to the location needed by the tub, should I change the size of the pipe?

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No, The tub waste will fit into the 1 1/2" raiser just fine and connect with a compression fitting or if the tub waste is plastic a glue joint.

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What should I do to make the drain sticking out of the floor for use on a tub?

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That "drain" is called a trap raiser. You will have to cut out the existing trap back to where you can 45 over to the new location. A tub dap-out,(square hole) at least 10 X10" will be needed around the trap.
The new trap raiser should center exactly under where the tub waste will set.
After everything's in place and the measurements have been checked twice you may patch the cement where you trenched over leaving the tub dap-out.
That's kinda the "bare bones" of things but I hope I've started you off on the right path. More questions? I'm as close as a click, Tom