I want to make a clone of my hard drive that is going out (getting noisy) but still working.

I'd like this to be as simple as possible, so I can just make the clone and swap the drives, and be done.

I've heard a lot about how great Acronis True Image is, so I bought it. Not opened yet.

Yesterday, someone told me that True Image, makes an "image" not a clone, and that is different. I thought it was the same. He said that Acronis is for back up, but not for cloning, and it would not create a bootable drive. TRUE OR FALSE?

He recommended Casper XP, and said this creates an exact bootable clone of the original drive in one step. Doesn't get any easier. TRUE OR FALSE?

I thought I knew what I needed to do with True Image, but now I don't know what to think.

Improtant, he also said that if I clone to a larger hard drive with Casper, all the extra space is useable. Not true with other software. TRUE OR FALSE?

The worst thing he told me is the bios in older computers limits the size of the new drive you install. First I've heard of that. He siad you can download an updated bios from the manufacturer's site. TRUE OR FALSE? (Sounds like the perfect way for me to get in over my head)

My 2 PC's are older and only have 250w power supplies. My friend also recommended upgrading these, as the larger drives will draw more power. IS THIS REALLY NECESSAY?

Can anyone comment on these 5 questions?

(All I want to do is replace a hard drive, and it's beginning to feel like I should just buy new PCs)

Thanks...

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Originally Posted by mitchsc

someone told me that True Image, makes an "image" not a clone

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It makes a large image file, which you can then restore to a blank drive. I can't be 100% sure the restored drive is EXACTLY the same as the original with regard to where things are located on the drive, but the drive works the same as the original. (Note: I'm using TrueImage Echo Workstation). Call Acronis if you have any doubts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitchsc

He said that Acronis is for back up, but not for cloning, and it would not create a bootable drive. TRUE OR FALSE?

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False, the rescue media has a clone disk tool, and if you image an entire bootable disk, restoring that image will yield a bootable disk.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitchsc

He recommended Casper XP, and said this creates an exact bootable clone of the original drive in one step. Doesn't get any easier. TRUE OR FALSE?

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Don't know, never used Casper.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitchsc

Improtant, he also said that if I clone to a larger hard drive with Casper, all the extra space is useable. Not true with other software. TRUE OR FALSE?

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False, TrueImage can resize partitions, although you have to restore the Master Boot Record and any data partitions individually if I'm recalling correctly. It can also restore to different hardware with the Universal Restore add-on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitchsc

The worst thing he told me is the bios in older computers limits the size of the new drive you install. First I've heard of that. He siad you can download an updated bios from the manufacturer's site. TRUE OR FALSE?

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True, drives larger than 137 GB require 48 Bit Logical Block Addressing (LBA). There have been other operating system and BIOS capacity limitations through the years too. How old are your PCs? Also, BIOS upgrades available from the motherboard manufacturer typically do include feature enhancements, only bug fixes. But, there are exceptions, especially if board was selling around the time the capacity limit was exceeded.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitchsc

My 2 PC's are older and only have 250w power supplies. My friend also recommended upgrading these, as the larger drives will draw more power. IS THIS REALLY NECESSAY?

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I'd wager not, unless your machine is stuffed to the brim with drives and other devices.

Scleros

The 2 PCs are 6 and 7 years old. (regarding BIOS limitations). So can I update the BIOS with a download as my friend stated, or is it a hardware limitation?

If I use the software that came with the new HDs, can I make a bootable clone with that? (one is Seagate, the other is WD)

Thanks...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitchsc

So can I update the BIOS with a download as my friend stated, or is it a hardware limitation?

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It will be either a BIOS or operating system limitation. A BIOS download from the motherboard manufacturer may or may not add large disk support as they are usually bug fixes. A 3rd party BIOS source would be needed. All is speculation without the following:

What operating system are you using?
What motherboard brand and model, and new hard drive models do you have?

For BIOS limitations, these can also be circumvented by installing a PCI controller card.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitchsc

If I use the software that came with the new HDs, can I make a bootable clone with that? (one is Seagate, the other is WD)

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I didn't know what retail packaged drives are shipping with these days as I normally buy bulk drives without cables and software, so I went and downloaded the Seagate DiscWizard Manual - it is based on Acronis TrueImage LOL! And it incorporates a clone mode, see page 37.

Scleros,

Thanks for doing all this research. I don't know what the motherbord make and model are. Haven't opened it yet (unless that info is available on screen somewhere). It's a Dell Dimension 8100 tower.

My OS is XP Home SP2.

Honestly, for a novice computer tech (I was an electronic technician about 20 years ago so I'm not afraid of hardware or electronics, just software), do you think I'm getting in over my head here?

I was doing OK until I heard about the HD size limitation on older PC's. I am unclear how to deal with this.

Is there some simpler way to replace a hard drive and clone the info from the original drive?

Right now I have True Image, the cloning software that came with the Seagate drive, and am getting a copy of Casper XP from my friend. I also bought an adaptor to connect an internal drive to a PC through the USB port which came with it's own cloning software (made by Apricorn, clone software is Apricorn EZ Gig II).

Thank You!!

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Originally Posted by mitchsc

do you think I'm getting in over my head here?

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Not if everything goes well. :rolleyes:

Dell's tech support documentation doesn't indicate supported drive capacities. I found this discussion indicating Dell BIOS version A09 available on their website supports drives over 137 GB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitchsc

Is there some simpler way to replace a hard drive and clone the info from the original drive?

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The TrueImage clone tool is about as easy as it gets.


What I would do if the new drives are less than 137 GB (no BIOS upgrade required):
1. Install Acronis TrueImage, apply latest software updates from Acronis website, and create rescue media CD.
2. Install new drive as slave (jumper setting on drive) on same cable as old drive changing old drive's jumper to master if set for cs (cable select).
3. Boot computer into BIOS setup utility and confirm new drive shows up in BIOS and reported capacity is correct. Adjust BIOS boot sequence to boot from CD.
4. Insert Acronis CD into CD-Drive and reboot computer loading Acronis.
5. Select Full Version and then the clone tool and walk through the tool's wizard cloning to the new drive and expanding to the new drive's capacity.
6. When Acronis is finished, remove CD, and turn off computer.
7. Remove both drives from cable and reinstall new drive at end of cable and change jumper to master.
8. Boot into BIOS setup and reverify drive is detected and capacity is correct. Adjust boot sequence if needed to boot from hard drive.
9. Reboot computer into Windows. Happy day.

What I would do if the new drives are more than 137 GB (BIOS upgrade required):
1. Weigh cost of local computer technician performing drive and BIOS upgrade vs. data loss and unbootable computer.

2. Choosing to proceed I would install Acronis TrueImage, apply latest software updates from Acronis website, and create rescue media CD.
3. Install the "extra" new drive on USB adapter, hook it up, and do a full backup image of internal drive to external drive using Acronis in Windows.
4. Download and install Windows XP Service Pack 2 (or SP3) if not installed (for 48 bit LBA support).
5. Create an incremental Acronis backup image to external drive. Unplug external drive.
6. Download A09 BIOS from Dell's support site, create the BIOS upgrade floppy disk, read BIOS upgrade notes and upgrade procedure. Reread upgrade procedure.
7. Reboot computer into BIOS setup and check BIOS version. If version already A09, proceed from step #2 as in above. If not, configure boot sequence to boot from floppy, stick in floppy, and reboot.
8. Proceed to upgrade BIOS. I highly recommend this be done while computer is connected to an Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS). If BIOS update fails or is interrupted, you will have a problem, most likely an unusable computer.
9. Reboot computer when prompted.
10. Proceed from step #2 as in above.

Gotchas:

• If new drive is not recognized properly by A09 BIOS, your choices will be finding and obtaining a BIOS from a 3rd party supplier or purchasing and installing an add-in controller card that supports the drives.
• Static electricity precautions should be exercised while working inside the computer.
• Scandisk BIOS floppy for errors before using if transported any distance or there is significant time delay (days) between creating and use.

Thanks so much. I need to reread this a few times to take it all in.

Say, here's a thought that would really simplify my life!

If I have a new 250GB drive to replace my 80GB, and I install it without upgrading the BIOS, will it work UP TO 80GB (or 137GB)? Or will it not work at all?

If it will work, that's good enough for me right now.

I just read an article that said the last thing I should ever do is flash the BIOS. Recommendation was to add a PCI controller card instead. Saw one at Geeks.com for under $10. I'm not sure what this is. Would it allow me to use a larger hard drive than the original bios limitations without upgrading the bios?

If yes, is there a certain PCI card I should be looking for? The article said the PCI card should have an onboard BIOS.

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Originally Posted by mitchsc

...install it without upgrading the BIOS, will it work UP TO 80GB (or 137GB)?

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Maybe, it could also lock the computer up. Some drives have capacity limitation jumpers you can set for such situations. Either way I don't recommend it. Capacity with 28 bit logical block addressing would be capped at 2^28 sectors = 2^28 x 512 bytes = 128 GiB in binary terms or 137.4 GB in traditional storage decimal terms.

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Originally Posted by mitchsc

If yes, is there a certain PCI card I should be looking for?

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Yes, it needs to be compatible with your motherboard and chassis. I'm also going to assume you acquired Parallel ATA (PATA) drives instead of newer Serial ATA (SATA) drives. There have been various revisions to the PCI specification. Connector slots come in 3.3V, 5V, and universal keying flavors. The card you get needs to work with the PCI connectors on your motherboard. Some cards such as this PATA SIIG model have keying for both 3.3V and 5V. The card should indeed also have an onboard BIOS. Windows also needs to be updated to Service Pack 1 or later to support 48 bit logical block addressing with native IDE drivers. If the add-in card uses a SCSI driver emulation, this wouldn't need to be done.


All that said, a BIOS upgrade is your cleanest solution provided it is done properly. My experience with add-in ATA storage adapters and getting them to play nice with the onboard controller if it cannot be disabled has been mixed. There's also less of a chance you can move the drive at a later time to another system or controller and have the data directly accessible. Sometimes the drive needs to be repartitioned and formatted to be usable with the new controller.

Also if you decide to go the route of adding a controller, I suggest you purchase a SATA controller and exchange your drives for SATA ones. Drive performance tends to be higher and cabling much cleaner. Plus you will be able to directly attach them without adapters to any system you may move them to at a later date.

Scleros, again thanks so much for ALL this info. I had no idea upgrading a HD was so involved. It this point, I'm determined however!

Since my last post, I learned that I can go up to 320GB on both my PC's, so I guess that solves the BIOS flash issue.

My friend sent me a trial version of Casper. He swears that it is the easiest cloning software. If I remember correctly, I believe he said it works within Windows. He also told me that it automatically expands the partition to the full amount of the new drive. From what I've read online, this eliminates a step in the process.

Has anyone used Casper for cloning? Would you recommend it?

There is one thing I am just not clear on. Everything I've read about Acronis True Image seems to suggest that it must first make an "image file", then it transferes that image to the new hard drive to make a "clone". Sounds like a 2 step process. If that is true, where does it store the image file? I don't understand this. Also, with True Image, I think you have to change the partition size after the clone to make full use of the new larger HD size? I don't know how to do that. Is it part of True Image, or do I need to buy more software? (Rereading, Scleros said this is included, but sounds like a separate step).

So now I have Casper, True Image, and the CD that came with the new Seagate HD for cloning. Just need to decide which one to use. Would obviously like the simplest, and one that resizes the partion (automatically?).

Any suggestion on this. I'm ready to do this (I think).

Thanks eveyone for helping a beginner here...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitchsc

Everything I've read about Acronis True Image seems to suggest that it must first make an "image file", then it transferes that image to the new hard drive to make a "clone". Sounds like a 2 step process. If that is true, where does it store the image file? I don't understand this. Also, with True Image, I think you have to change the partition size after the clone to make full use of the new larger HD size? I don't know how to do that. Is it part of True Image, or do I need to buy more software? (Rereading, Scleros said this is included, but sounds like a separate step).

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With TrueImage you can "clone" either by using an image file or directly with the built in clone tool. You can use the image file method when you have 100 machines to setup. You store the image on a network share, and then restore the image to each machine's hard drive. You can also clone directly with no interim storage with the clone tool which will automatically proportionately resize partitions if you want it to. See attached pic of Acronis Clone Wizard.

I know this is all new for you, but a good part of the perceived complexity is you making life hard on yourself with speculation. You have two blank hard disks and an external adapter. Hook one of the drives up on the external adapter and do a full backup with Acronis. Then hook the other drive up and do a dry clone run with whichever tool floats your boat or even both to see which you like.

Also one step I left out of my prior posts is that it would be prudent to do a full surface scan of the source drive using the built-in Windows error checking tools before attempting to clone. If while cloning, an unreadable spot is encountered, the cloning process may abort.

Well thank you Scleros. I really appreciate all your help with this.

Now that I see the True Image screen, it looks very simple. The auto clone mode (shown) says it will resize the partitions to fit the new HD. I assume that means it will give you max space for data storage on the new drive?

Thanks also for the check disk suggestion.

I believe I can do this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitchsc

I assume that means it will give you max space for data storage on the new drive?

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Maybe depending on your partition structure. Existing partitions will be proportionately re-sized to consume the full capacity of the new drive. Example: say you have a 100 GB drive with two 50 GB partitions C: (Windows) and D: (Data) and you auto-clone it to a 200 GB drive. You'll end up with two 100 GB partitions C: (Windows) and D: (Data). If you want to adjust the ratio to make D: larger, you can choose manual and do so. If you only have a single partition, it will expand to the full capacity of the new drive.

Okay, Thanks for eveything.

Here we go...