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-   -   How do I wire the hot water heater to breaker (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=238249)

  • Jul 16, 2008, 04:49 PM
    catrains
    1 Attachment(s)
    How do I wire the hot water heater to breaker
    My husband is out of town and the electric hot water heater stopped functioning... the breaker at the main breaker box was tripping... I replaced the breaker at the main box... it still tripped... the hot water heater also has a breaker that connects to the main breaker box... I had to replace the entire breaker box because the old one was old... I replaced it with what it had before, a 30 amp 2-pole breaker... now I don't think I have it wired right... it is still tripping... I did my best to copy it from the other one, but this one has extra screws... I am not completely without knowledge, but I do need the simplified version... I am attaching an image... keep in mind that I do not know what is the ground... or the hot wires... if you will tell me what color wire goes where, I will be good... thanks.. I hope you can help... been without hot water for some time now...
  • Jul 16, 2008, 05:26 PM
    Missouri Bound
    If you duplicated the wiring from the old to new, you probably did it correctly.
    As for the breaker tripping, it's probably an issue with the water heater. Most water heaters fail with open elements, and some fail with the controls and allow both elements to come on at once... which is too high of a load for the breaker. Have the water heater checked.
  • Jul 16, 2008, 05:34 PM
    donf
    Cat,

    Usually, you do not use two double breakers.

    You normally would find one 240 VAC breaker in the main panel to feed the water heater, unless you are using a sub panel. However, if you replaced both breakers, then the problem may be the water heater itself.

    Electrically speaking, you need two hots (these would be the Black and the Red conductors) Each of these conductors connect to one of the terminals on the 30 amp breaker. The White is the Neutral conductor and the bare wire or green wire is the ground.

    The voltage across the Black to Red conductors will be 240 VAC. The voltage between Black and White will be 120 VAC and the voltage between the Red and White will also be 120 VAC.

    I do not understand why there would be a second breaker in the branch circuit from the main panel, but I cannot see what you are seeing.

    My suggestions are:
    1) Call and electrician or a plumber because what has to be determined is whether you have an electrical failure or a short within the water heater itself. If you are wired correctly, your breaker should not trip. You can test this by disconnecting the water heater from the circuit and seeing if the breaker trips. If it does, then you have an electrical problem external to the water heater.

    2) If the breaker trips as soon as you turn the power on to the water heater (with the heater connected) then you may well have a short on the heater.

    The voltage and the amperage that the water heater uses is well within the killing range, so please do not try to be a hero and get someone to help you!
  • Jul 16, 2008, 06:03 PM
    Washington1
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by catrains
    My husband is out of town and the electric hot water heater stopped functioning...the breaker at the main breaker box was tripping...i replaced the breaker at the main box...it still tripped...the hot water heater also has a breaker that connects to the main breaker box...i had to replace the entire breaker box because the old one was old...i replaced it with what it had before, a 30 amp 2-pole breaker...now i don't think i have it wired right...it is still tripping...i did my best to copy it from the other one, but this one has extra screws...i am not completely without knowledge, but i do need the simplified version...i am attaching an image...keep in mind that i do not know what is the ground...or the hot wires...if you will tell me what color wire goes where, i will be good...thanks..i hope you can help...been without hot water for some time now...

    Can you send the manfactures name and model number. I've never seen an H20 (accept some tankless water heaters)with a neutral.

    The disconnect may have been installed based on the within sight rule, or just because.

    Please send your information.

    PS: Do not keep trying to re-set the breaker until we figure this out.
  • Jul 16, 2008, 06:13 PM
    Washington1
    Cat,

    I hope you didn't fire-up (AKA:Power-up) the water heater without water in it?
  • Jul 16, 2008, 06:56 PM
    catrains
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by donf
    Cat,

    Usually, you do not use two double breakers.

    You normally would find one 240 VAC breaker in the main panel to feed the water heater, unless you are using a sub panel. However, if you replaced both breakers, then the problem may be the water heater itself.

    Electrically speaking, you need two hots (these would be the Black and the Red conductors) Each of these conductors connect to one of the terminals on the 30 amp breaker. The White is the Neutral conductor and the bare wire or green wire is the ground.

    The voltage across the Black to Red conductors will be 240 VAC. The voltage between Black and White will be 120 VAC and the voltage between the Red and White will also be 120 VAC.

    I do not understand why there would be a second breaker in the branch circuit from the main panel, but I cannot see what you are seeing.

    My suggestions are:
    1) Call and electrician or a plumber because what has to be determined is whether you have an electrical failure or a short within the water heater itself. If you are wired correctly, your breaker should not trip. You can test this by disconnecting the water heater from the circuit and seeing if the breaker trips. If it does, then you have an electrical problem external to the water heater.

    2) If the breaker trips as soon as you turn the power on to the water heater (with the heater connected) then you may well have a short on the heater.

    The voltage and the amperage that the water heater uses is well within the killing range, so please do not try to be a hero and get someone to help you!


    Don,
    The break located near the water heater that comes off the main breaker box has 2- 30 amp breakers... that is what was there before... Not to be a smart , but if I could afford the rate of an electrician I would have done that... I will test the water heater by doing what you said though... I would not even think of being a hero... I have tons of respect for electricity... the hot water heater definitely has water in it... my husband replaced one of the heating elements a few months back and it worked for a while after that... it has two heating elements... one on top and one on bottom... my understanding is that the one on the bottom is not being used... he replaced the one on top... I will check the water heater for a short... my husband works in a/c and heating... I have a meter. I have done some reading up on all of this and found out that I have 2 hot and one neutral coming from the main breaker and the same coming from the water heater...
    Could it be a fuse to the breaker... I don't know if this has one, but I can look if you can give me an idea of where it might be... thanks for the info... if you have any more advice, please don't hold back...
  • Jul 16, 2008, 07:04 PM
    catrains
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Washington1
    Can you send the manfactures name and model number. I've never seen an H20 (accept some tankless water heaters)with a neutral.

    The disconnect may have been installed based on the within sight rule, or just because.

    Please send your information.

    PS: Do not keep trying to re-set the breaker until we figure this out.


    The model number is 64020RS... the manufacturer is Reliance... the tank is full of water... will not reset breaker... I think I will start looking at the water heater now... I have replaced both breakers and still tripping... checking the water heater is easier than tracing the wiring I think... I don't even know where to start now... thanks for the advice... let me know if you find out or think of anything else.
  • Jul 16, 2008, 07:08 PM
    catrains
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Missouri Bound
    If you duplicated the wiring from the old to new, you probably did it correctly.
    As for the breaker tripping, it's probably an issue with the water heater. Most water heaters fail with open elements, and some fail with the controls and allow both elements to come on at once....which is too high of a load for the breaker. Have the water heater checked.

    Thanks for the reply... I will check the hot water heater..
  • Jul 16, 2008, 07:49 PM
    Washington1
    I couldn't find a 64020Rs.

    Do me a favor, and give me the name plate information. It should be located on your water heater.

    Thanks!
  • Jul 16, 2008, 08:31 PM
    catrains
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Washington1
    I couldn't find a 64020Rs.

    Do me a favor, and give me the name plate information. It should be located on your water heater.

    Thanks!

    Serial MO3505857
    40 Gal
    Model 640 20RS
    4500 Watts
    240 Volts
    150 Working pressure

    Trade Name Reliance
    Reliance Water Heater Co.
    Ashland, TN

    That is it... I disconnected the hot water heater and the breaker does not trip... that proves it is the hotwater heater... also, the bottom heating element doesn't look good... I can't see the element, but the wires and such look burnt, especially the red one... we only replaced the top element... I will have to drain the tank and replace the element... what do I do about the burn wires... I would bet they run up in the tank... trace them?
  • Jul 16, 2008, 08:41 PM
    Missouri Bound
    How old is the water heater? Have you attempted to flush it out? In water heaters, when they fill with sediment it's the bottom element that goes out. The top element rarely goes out unless someone powers it up before it is filled with water. When you pull out the bottom element, you will know if sediment is the problem. If the water heater is older, it may be wise to replace it while you have everything drained. If you choose not to, at least scrape out, vacumn out the sediment. That should give the replacement element a chance... for a while.
  • Jul 16, 2008, 09:50 PM
    Washington1
    I have to say, I agree with Missouri!

    Your H2O is straight 240v, no neutral needed. I believe you have a short do to the damaged wire.

    To add. The white conductor on your H2O is for single phase 120V or 277v.

    Just to add some more comments: The red conductor should connect to your high temp limit switch from your lower heating element. If it's damged, I would consider calling in a pro to make recommendations.

    Note: H20's are just as dangerous as furnaces.

    Wait for others to comment.

    Decided to edit my last
  • Jul 16, 2008, 10:08 PM
    Washington1
    Cat,

    You can also go here with your question:

    https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/search...archid=2982939


    Or wait for Keepitsimple to reply. He may have an answer for your appliance.
  • Dec 12, 2012, 01:12 PM
    eric butler
    This person should get a electrician , you can do a lot of damage to yourself or your home if you don't know what your doing...
  • Dec 12, 2012, 01:18 PM
    donf
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eric butler View Post
    This person should get a electrician , you can do alot of damage to yourself or your home if you don't know what your doing ......
    Eric,

    This is a thread from 4 years ago. There is a real good chance that the water heater is working by now.

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