I recently sued my former roommate for Rent Overcharge and submitted documentation and evidence proving that it was willfully done thus I was seeking treble damages. We went before an Arbitrator and I now feel like my interests weren’t served and I was treated unfairly in the entire matter. I presented my case to him, he sent me out of the room and spoke to my roommate alone, then called me in alone and asked me why don’t I settle for the amount I was actually overcharged alone, not the treble damages. I was blindsided by this because I thought that what I presented was what I’d be awarded – no negotiations, I asked him WHY? And he said that sometimes it’s about what you can actually get from the person you sue – making me feel like I was being unjust and greedy. I told him OK then, much to my regret and agreed on the 1000+ sum only. My roommate had charged me 600 when his rent was only 991 then 1021. I didn’t take the time to consider my costs with missing work to pursue the matter, the verbal abuse my roommate meted out to me nor the inconvenience of him having me move with only two weeks notice after he had re-posted the room for rent at 650 a month (and I had a printout of that with me) etc. I went back outside and immediately regretted saying ‘ok then’ but he had already called my roommate back in and I thought it was too late to go back and change my mind, he then called me back in with my roommate and my roommate said he can only pay me $232 a month for the next 5 months – I thought he said/meant weeks until my cousin yelled at me afterwards that I am getting paid in full in November and asked who was this arbitrator because he certainly wasn’t on my side. This happened yesterday evening and I’ve had a knot in my stomach ever since. Is there any way or within any timeframe that I can request that the judgment/stipulation be vacated and my initial claim be reinstated? I truly did not expect my calculated and proven claim to be bargained down by the arbitrator no less (I know if my roommate had said this to me in that room I would have said NO!), I thought the arbitrator was there to see that once I presented my case and my roommate had no defence that I get my money in a timely manner. He didn’t even look at evidence I had from the owner of the property showing that whilst I was paying my roommate – he was not paying the rent. This case was first called in May and my roommate asked for Application to get documents to file a counterclaim he said at the time – yesterday no mention of this was made.
Is there anything I can do now? Is there a lawyer you can refer me to? Please advise.

Let me see if I understand this. Your roommate is the leaseholder on the apartment. You agreed to rent the apartment from him for $600/month. You then found out he was only paying $991/month and you think he overcharged you. Under what statute do you believe that's the case? Were you signed on the lease or was the roommate your landlord?

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

Let me see if I understand this. Your roomate is the leaseholder on the apartment. You agreed to rent the apartment from him for $600/month. You then found out he was only paying $991/month and you think he overcharged you. Under what statute do you believe that's the case? Were you signed on the lease or was the roommate your landlord?

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He was the leaseholder - he moved after I filed my rent overcharge claim. I agreed to rent a room in the apartment from him for $600 after he told me the rent was $1200 a month and we were also splitting utilities 50/50. He later showed me a document to make another point and I saw on it that the rent was not 1200, after subpoena for records from the Mgmt office did I find out it was 991 when I first moved in and later went to 1021. It is unlawful here in NY to overcharge roommates in rent-stabilized apartments since 2001. I was not on his lease and he was acting as my landlord - yes.

If he had notified the landlords and they had charged him a 10% surcharge he could have passed that on to me but he had me paying 2/3 of his rent which was ruled unlawful by DHRC.

Ok, That adds some more info to this. The fact that the apt was rent stablized is key. Plus the fact that he lied about what he was actually paying.

What I think the arbitrator is trying to do it here is get you some of your money back. Sure the arbitrator could have ruled under the law and awarded you treble damages, but would the roommate have been able to pay? Isn't getting your money back, better than getting nothing?

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

Ok, That adds some more info to this. The fact that the apt was rent stablized is key. Plus the fact that he lied about what he was actually paying.

What I think the arbitrator is trying to do it here is get you some of your money back. Sure the arbitrator could have ruled under the law and awarded you treble damages, but would the roommate have been able to pay? Isn't getting your money back, better than getting nothing?

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I know that's how it may have seemed to him and does to you but when I think about that figure being only what he willfully overcharged me, and when I moved after police had to be called to the apt in a matter of two weeks and the costs involved, then my missing work to pursue the matter and after going to all the trouble to prove the willfull rent overcharge - it feels like I was still robbed and honestly I don't think it was the arbitrators place to tell me that the amt I was overcharged might be all I can get - I believed once I proved my case (all my roommate said was that someone told him he could do that), his job was to work out how soon he could get me my judgment not lowball me. I am very disappointed and have a knot in my stomach since last night beating myself up as to why I said OK to that. I have a 7 mth old and was in dire straights to find a new place, move etc with such a short time and from such a hostile environment and then the arbitrator acts like paying me 232 a mth is the best thing - he should be giving me my money in 2 installments at the most. I guess you have to be there to understand how intimidating it can be and how robbed you can feel afterwards - I am just trying to find out if there is anything I can do before any more time passes.

Without knowing the circumstances of your former roommate, I can't fully comment. I understand you feel you were cheated and to a certain extent you were. But I strongly suspect that, if the arbitrator, had awarded you the amount you wanted, you probably would have gotten nothing. At least not without more expense and more waiting.

Without this being rent controlled or no right to sublease, there is nothing wrong at all with charging you 600, or 800 if he is only paying 900. This is very legal and really there is not reason, unless the rental itself had issues to make him have to pay you one penny, he can be paying 400 and charge you 500 if he wants if you agree to rent it for that.

In fact in any court I have ever used for just the amounts, you would have lost. So be happy you will be paid, since I doubt if it went to court you would have gotten anything

I just wanted to agree with the fact that you may or may not have been able to "win" a JUDGEMENT for more money.

Winning a judgement and actually collecting on the judgement are two VERY different things.

So you weren't proven "right", but you at least wound up with something tangible to show for your efforts.

I have several judgements in my favor for thousands of dollars each(against tenants who broke leases, damaged property, etc.) The chances of me actually seeing any of that money are slim. If arbitration was available where I'm located and through that process I could actually recover ANY damages I'd be all over it!

I don't think you did so bad.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

without this being rent controled or no right to sublease, there is nothing wrong at all with charging you 600, or 800 if he is only paying 900. This is very legal and really there is not reason, unless the rental itself had issues to make him have to pay you one penny, he can be paying 400 and charge you 500 if he wants if you agree to rent it for that.

In fact in any court I have ever used for just the amounts, you would have lost. So be happy you will be paid, since I doubt if it went to court you would have gotten anything

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WELL THE APARTMENT IS UNDER THE RULING OF DHCR (AND IT SAID SO ON HIS LEASE) AND HE WAS SUPPOSED TO NOTIFY MGMT OF ANY ROOMMATES HE TOOK ON. I FOUND THIS ARTICLE ONLINE AND PROCEEDED AND I SPOKE WITH TWO ATTORNEYS WHO DIRECTED ME TO SMALL CLAIMS COURT.

Roommate Advice
By Lynn Armentrout, Esq.
October 2005 (revised February 2006)


Whether you are contemplating or currently in a roommate situation, there are two things you should do: (1) get to know your legal rights and obligations, and (2) have a written agreement with your roommate.


You have the right to have a roommate


A tenant of an apartment, rent-regulated or not, has the legal right to have at least one adult roommate (with or without dependent children). The law requires the tenant to notify the landlord of the name of the roommate. (While there does not appear to be any penalty for failing to do so, it may nevertheless be advisable, depending on the circumstances.)


If only one tenant is named on the lease, then that tenant may have only one adult roommate. However, a landlord may not evict a tenant for violating the roommate law by having too many roommates. But if your lease specifically restricts occupancy of your apartment to the persons described in the roommate law (RPL §235-f), then a violation can lead to an eviction proceeding. It is the violation of the lease, not the statute, that gives the ground for eviction. More and more landlords are inserting this restrictive language in leases.


If your apartment is subject to rent control the landlord has the right to add a 10% surcharge to your rent if you bring in a roommate. However, it would be permissible to pass that cost on to your roommate. This surcharge does not apply to rent-stabilized apartments. (Roughly speaking, apartments occupied by the same tenant, or his/her successors, since before 1971 are subject to rent control; apartments occupied post-1971 are subject to rent stabilization.)


You do not have the right to charge any rent you please


If you are the tenant named on the lease, and your apartment is rent-stabilized, you are prohibited from charging your roommate more than a proportionate share of the rent. A roommate’s proportionate share of the rent is determined by dividing the legal rent by the number of tenants and occupants (excluding spouses and dependent children). Charging a roommate more than a proportionate share of rent is a violation of the Rent Stabilization Code and can lead to eviction.

There is no such proportionate-rent rule for rent-controlled tenants. However, judges have long disapproved of "profiteering" by rent-regulated tenants. Profiteering is generally found when a rent-regulated tenant charges a subtenant an amount of rent that is well in excess of the total, legal rent for the apartment. Although no court has yet evicted a rent-controlled tenant for profiteering on a roommate (as opposed to subtenant), the law is evolving in this area and, if you want to keep your apartment, it is wise to play it safe. So far, in a rent-controlled situation, the tenant is safe from eviction so long as the roommate is not paying an amount that exceeds the total rent for the apartment.


A rent-stabilized tenant who charges a roommate a disproportionate share of the rent is subject not only to eviction by the landlord, but also to an overcharge complaint by the roommate. If the overcharge is willful, the tenant could end up paying the roommate treble damages, or three times the amount of the overcharge.


A rent-controlled tenant who charges a roommate more than the maximum legal rent for the apartment may or may not be subject to eviction. But whether the landlord would have a claim for eviction, the overcharged roommate would most likely have a claim for a rent overcharge.

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Originally Posted by rockinmommy

I just wanted to agree with the fact that you may or may not have been able to "win" a JUDGEMENT for more money.

Winning a judgement and actually collecting onthe judgement are two VERY different things.

So you weren't proven "right", but you at least wound up with something tangible to show for your efforts.

I have several judgements in my favor for thousands of dollars each(against tenants who broke leases, damaged property, etc.) The chances of me actually seeing any of that money are slim. If arbitration was available where I'm located and through that process I could actually recover ANY damages I'd be all over it!

I don't think you did so bad.

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I realise you are not all from ny, but i proved willful overcharge because he posted the same room whilst i was occupying it for 650 a month to see if he'd get a response. All the while i had paid him every month in full and he had not paid the rent for 3 months - he was living the high life off my money and the rent was 1021.

And let me say i don't know what resources you have to deal with but i will get my money, i will subpoena every bank in the us looking for his acct if i have to. I have tv investigative shows that i will use if a single check bounces and he'll have to deal with that embarrassment - he's a con artist and he will be dealt with accordingly and internationally if i have to (he's from st. vincent) and i would write letters to their newspaper after anything i've done here is aired.

I don't know how badly u need ur money and why you are just waiting to be paid - make a public example of them, its really time for u to be proactive.

You might also find this site useful:

New York Real Estate Lawyers' Blog - New York Real Estate Litigation Attorneys' Blog - Finkelstein Newman Ferrara LLP

It contains some specific case law that pertains to your situation. However, part of the problem here is that arbitration is often binding. If you signed an agreement to accept the arbitrator's ruling, you are pretty much stuck.

And I still think the arbitrator helped you by getting something instead of nothing.

You can't subpeona a bank on a fishing expedition. If he refuses to pay the amount the arbitrator awarded, then you will have to find his assets on your own.

Here's a reply a lawyer just gave by email - You can write a letter and tell them that you want it vacated, that you waived your rights without counsel, that you have obtained counsel, and you reject the arbitration and want the matter decided by the Rent Administrator.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

You might also find this site useful:

New York Real Estate Lawyers' Blog - New York Real Estate Litigation Attorneys' Blog - Finkelstein Newman Ferrara LLP

It contains some specific case law that pertains to your situation. However, part of the problem here is that arbitration is often binding. If you signed an agreement to accept the arbitrator's ruling, you are pretty much stuck.

And I still think the arbitrator helped you by getting something instead of nothing.

You can't subpeona a bank on a fishing expedition. If he refuses to pay the amount the arbitrator awarded, then you will have to find his assets on your own.

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Ok i was told at the small claims court that i can get an information subpoena for three major banks in one to find out if he has accts there, then any others i will have to get individually, but i know where he has an acct. once my server produces a judment and a subpoena they have to tell me if he banks with them or not tell me but notify the court. Isn't that correct?

And i won't have to find his assets - he has none. I will embarrass the crap out of him on shame! Shame! Shame! i-team, 7 on your side etc.

He will pay me my money or be sitting in his living room one day and hear his name and all the court business.

First, I'm not sure if NY has different rules but generally you can't go on fishing expeditions. A judge will not issue a 'blank' subpeona. You have to have the account info yourself or at lease some indication that the person banks there.

I'm not sure who told you that, but I have a hard time believing it.

Be careful though, there is a fine line with collecting a valid judgement and harassment. You could find your vindictiveness backfiring.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

You might also find this site useful:

New York Real Estate Lawyers' Blog - New York Real Estate Litigation Attorneys' Blog - Finkelstein Newman Ferrara LLP

It contains some specific case law that pertains to your situation. However, part of the problem here is that arbitration is often binding. If you signed an agreement to accept the arbitrator's ruling, you are pretty much stuck.

And I still think the arbitrator helped you by getting something instead of nothing.

You can't subpeona a bank on a fishing expedition. If he refuses to pay the amount the arbitrator awarded, then you will have to find his assets on your own.

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I love that link you sent - have to print and read it.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

First, I'm not sure if NY has different rules but generally you can't go on fishing expeditions. A judge will not issue a 'blank' subpeona. You have to have the account info yourself or at lease some indication that the person banks there.

I'm not sure who told you that, but I have a hard time believing it.

Be careful though, there is a fine line with collecting a valid judgement and harassment. You could find your vindictiveness backfiring.

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What are u calling harassment - looking for his bank acct or going to an investigative news show?

I get a judment in my hand and he's not paying - i don't see how either would be considered harassment. If he pays what he owes me, i'd have no need to do any of the above.

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Originally Posted by XHIONZMOM

I REALISE YOU ARE NOT ALL FROM NY, BUT I PROVED WILLFUL OVERCHARGE BECAUSE HE POSTED THE SAME ROOM WHILST I WAS OCCUPYING IT FOR 650 A MONTH TO SEE IF HE'D GET A RESPONSE. ALL THE WHILE I HAD PAID HIM EVERY MONTH IN FULL AND HE HAD NOT PAID THE RENT FOR 3 MTHS - HE WAS LIVING THE HIGH LIFE OFF MY MONEY AND THE RENT WAS 1021.

AND LET ME SAY I DON'T KNOW WHAT RESOURCES YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH BUT I WILL GET MY MONEY, I WILL SUBPOENA EVERY BANK IN THE US LOOKING FOR HIS ACCT IF I HAVE TO. I HAVE TV INVESTIGATIVE SHOWS THAT I WILL USE IF A SINGLE CHECK BOUNCES AND HE'LL HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT EMBARASSMENT - HE'S A CON ARTIST AND HE WILL BE DEALT WITH ACCORDINGLY AND INTERNATIONALLY IF I HAVE TO (HE'S FROM ST. VINCENT) AND I WOULD WRITE LETTERS TO THEIR NEWSPAPER AFTER ANYTHING I'VE DONE HERE IS AIRED.

I DON'T KNOW HOW BADLY U NEED UR MONEY AND WHY U R JUST WAITING TO BE PAID - MAKE A PUBLIC EXAMPLE OF THEM, ITS REALLY TIME FOR U TO BE PROACTIVE.

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I understand that you feel like you were taken advantage of the roommate and that makes you mad, etc, etc.

I guess my point is... you're letting this drag you down! You're spending time and energy and probably MORE money on some stupid loser. Personally, I'd rather take what I could get and move on and be happy. It's like this guys is still getting one over on you because you're jumping through all these hoops and feeling all angry and bitter.

Believe me, I started that way. When someone "owed" me, by golly, I was going to collect no matter WHAT! After spending time (tons of time) and money and getting really bitter I realized that life is WAY too short to waste all this time.

In my opinion your odds of collecting are slim to none. I don't question that you can win a judgement. You've obviously done your homework on that part. But collecting is another matter. As ScottGem pointed out. It's not as easy as just going around subpeona this and that.

There may be cases where all of this action would be warranted... like if you hadn't been able to collect anything... but gosh, I hate to see you do down this road. That's just my opinion. (and remember I'm in business - so for me it's part of the "cost of doing business").

One other note. If you have the arbitration vacated you'll have to give back that $1000.

First, please stop shouting at us (typing in all caps is considered shouting). We are trying to help you. Second, try and understand what Rockinmommy is saying. Your ire (righteous as it is) at being taken advantage of, appears to be consuming you.

Finally, yes, going to extraordinary measures to embarrass and ridicule someone because they cannot or will not pay you, can be considered harassment.

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Originally Posted by rockinmommy

I understand that you feel like you were taken advantage of the roomate and that makes you mad, etc, etc.

I guess my point is............you're letting this drag you down! You're spending time and energy and probably MORE money on some stupid loser. Personally, I'd rather take what I could get and move on and be happy. It's like this guys is still getting one over on you because you're jumping through all these hoops and feeling all angry and bitter.

Believe me, I started out that way. When someone "owed" me, by golly, I was going to collect no matter WHAT! After spending time (tons of time) and money and getting really bitter I realized that life is WAY too short to waste all this time.

In my opinion your odds of collecting are slim to none. I don't question that you can win a judgement. You've obviously done your homework on that part. But collecting is another matter. As ScottGem pointed out. It's not as easy as just going around subpeona this and that.

There may be cases where all of this action would be warranted.....like if you hadn't been able to collect anything........but gosh, I hate to see you do down this road. That's just my opinion. (and remember I'm in business - so for me it's part of the "cost of doing business").

One other note. If you have the arbitration vacated you'll have to give back that $1000.

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I understand you. This was done on monday - he says he'll pay it off over the next 5 months, lets see!!