Here is my story... My 18 year old and I for many many years have had a rough go. He has a troubled youth history - we lived with my husbands family (13 of us) in a very large home that had been segregated into 4 houses. Yet he always seemed to have 4 sets of parents with different rules. Since he was our only child at the time, his cousins (who had siblings) picked on him. We tried to stop it by brining it up with my in-laws, but it was always brushed off as "they are only children - children can be mean, and "name" needs to stop trying to attract attention to himself". After 5 years, his brother was born, and "name" to this day feels resentful.

We only recently (Feb) found out that our son had been "abused" by his older cousin sexually. They are 5 years apart and his cousin is gay. Our son never told us about this, and we have all spoken about it openly. It appears with both of them that it was consentual, but how does a 10 year old know what is consent to a 15 year old.

We also found out in Feb that this went on for 2 years. Then we moved out of the "family" home to our own house. When he was 12 he started the same abuse with his brother who is 5 years younger than he. Therefore with him being 12 his brother was only 7. It was also at this time that his anger was becoming apparent and his younger brother would not confront him.

I feel very guilty in the fact that his younger brother was left alone with him for years - we looked toward "name" as our youngest's protector. How far from the truth could we be.

He started drinking at a young age, then got into drugs (which again only became apparent late last year) - Don't worry... I keep asking myself the same question.. "Where was I? How did I not see?" He has never had good academics. Never any good friends. Many bad crowds, and he is a follower - has no self esteem. Has been bullied, and is now a bully. We have tried so hard to get him help. Help from phsychiatrists, hospitals, therapists. He never wanted help - he had a secret that no one could know.

Now all the secrets are out - so we think. Children's Aid is involved, they are not allowed to be alone together, because our youngest is still a minor. Then to make matters worse he got into a fight with another kid, and threw a bottle at him in anger. To come to his defence, the kid did break his nose first. However, the police are invovled and they have both been charged. Mine with a worse charge than the other. We've had to hire a criminal lawyer (I've never had to do this before). It will cost us up to $5K for his stupidity.

He still doesn't have a job. He had one for a short while, but was laid off after seasonal employment. They didn't keep him on because of his inability to shut his mouth with his superiors. And his attitude.

He smokes, and we buy them for him, because trying to get someone off drugs and alcohol is one fight. I can't fight cigarettes at the same time. My husband smokes, but I have quit.

Every day, I try hard to find ways for him to change his life - find new friends, get better grades, find a job, talk to him, help him learn how to speak with others. All I seem to get from it is verbal abuse. He never swears at me, but uses the swear words intertwined in his vocabulary. As an example. This morning, I wake him early as I have arranged an interview with a teacher from an Art College, then he has to get his fingerprints done and then he has to interview for a volunteer position. He gets up grunting, and all bent over in some theatrical version of "I'm dying". He proceeds to angrily state "Get me some type of allergy medicine" I ask why, what's wrong... "Don't you see, my *f..'in* throat is raw, and I can't ..... *f...'in* swallow!". I say, that's not allergies, perhaps it is a cold. Or maybe it's because the a/c has been on, my throat is sore too. "ITS NOT A *f..'in* COLD..... ITS BEEN LIKE THIS FOR DAYS.... *F***! My back instantly gets up, and my tone now changes. I ask him to come to the bathroom so I can look in his throat. I get "blah blah blah" I give him some advil and water. And then I get "THIS Won't *F.. 'in* help". But he takes them anyway. Now I don't want to speak with him anymore, I'm tired of blowing up - it get's me no where. And dad, he's oblivious to what's happening, because he is self absorbed in his phone that won't charge.

I want to throw him out... send him to the wolves. I'm fed up. My life is chaos around him. I'm at a shrink, a phsychologist, I'm taking pills. I'm at wits end. End my life - yeah, I want to many times. Hell it would be a lot easier than having to face him everyday. Getting pooped on day after day for trying to make someone's life easier. But I can't. He needs medication. How will he get it, how will he'pay for it. Do I let him become a bum on the street. Freaked out on drugs and whatever for the world to poop on. Maybe. But how do I do that. I always wonder - what do their mothers think,. how do their mothers feel. I can't be that kind of mother. Where did I go wrong to have a child like this?

I need to print this off and give this to my doctor - my life is totally consumed by his mistakes, and it's not fair.

He may feel you should be taking him to the doctors and feel you are not helping because you don't.
He has a lot of anger issues too. I am surprised if children's aid hadn't mandated that HE go to counseling.
But him being 18 they really can only help with your younger son now.

I all too well know how past decisions can have a bad effect on your life years later.
It feels like you have to reap the consequences for years even when the past decisions were circumstances beyond your control. You have to keep working toward the positive though and it feels like less than baby step progress most of the time but don't give in and don't give up.

But we did bring him to the doctors - many times. Arranged for family phisicians, then assessments at a children's hospital, then assessments at a Mentally Ill Hospital. They don't know what to do with him. He will not open up - he hates all of them. He thinks they are distrustfull and do not like him. No one likes him according to him. Anyone with authority doesn't like him. (So he thinks).

He finally decided that he would speak with his family doctor and his nurse practitioner. It doesn't appear that they are speaking too much now either. I don't think he thinks he needs help. He definitely doesn't show that he truly gets what has happened. It's like he thinks everything is OK. What's the matter with us.

Man... GROW UP!! Look around you. This is serious stuff. Your waisting your life, and it appears like you think that the world owes you.

I really need to step aside. I don't want to deal with him at all anymore - I just want him to talk to his father. Let my husband do everything for him. I think, that they will both quickly come to realise what the hell I do for them all.

This is going to be the hardest thing I think I've ever said in my life... I don't like him.

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Originally Posted by KillLois

Here is my story... My 18 year old and I for many many years have had a rough go. He has a troubled youth history - we lived with my husbands family (13 of us) in a very large home that had been segregated into 4 houses. Yet he always seemed to have 4 sets of parents with different rules. Since he was our only child at the time, his cousins (who had siblings) picked on him. We tried to stop it by brining it up with my in-laws, but it was always brushed off as "they are only children - children can be mean, and "name" needs to stop trying to attract attention to himself". After 5 years, his brother was born, and "name" to this day feels resentful.

We only recently (Feb) found out that our son had been "abused" by his older cousin sexually. They are 5 years appart and his cousin is gay. Our son never told us about this, and we have all spoken about it openly. It appears with both of them that it was consentual, but how does a 10 year old know what is consent to a 15 year old.

We also found out in Feb that this went on for 2 years. Then we moved out of the "family" home to our own house. When he was 12 he started the same abuse with his brother who is 5 years younger than he. Therefore with him being 12 his brother was only 7. It was also at this time that his anger was becoming apparent and his younger brother would not confront him.

I feel very guilty in the fact that his younger brother was left alone with him for years - we looked toward "name" as our youngest's protector. How far from the truth could we be.

He started drinking at a young age, then got into drugs (which again only became aparent late last year) - Don't worry... I keep asking myself the same question.. "Where was I? How did I not see?" He has never had good academics. Never any good friends. Many bad crowds, and he is a follower - has no self esteem. Has been bullied, and is now a bully. We have tried so hard to get him help. Help from phsychiatrists, hospitals, therapists. He never wanted help - he had a secret that no one could know.

Now all the secrets are out - so we think. Children's Aid is involved, they are not allowed to be alone together, because our youngest is still a minor. Then to make matters worse he got into a fight with another kid, and threw a bottle at him in anger. To come to his defence, the kid did break his nose first. However, the police are invovled and they have both been charged. Mine with a worse charge than the other. We've had to hire a criminal lawyer (I've never had to do this before). It will cost us up to $5K for his stupidity.

He still doesn't have a job. He had one for a short while, but was laid off after seasonal employment. They didn't keep him on because of his inability to shut his mouth with his superiors. And his attitude.

He smokes, and we buy them for him, because trying to get someone off of drugs and alcohol is one fight. I can't fight cigarettes at the same time. My husband smokes, but I have quit.

Every day, I try hard to find ways for him to change his life - find new friends, get better grades, find a job, talk to him, help him learn how to speak with others. All I seem to get from it is verbal abuse. He never swears at me, but uses the swear words intertwined in his vocabulary. As an example. This morning, I wake him early as I have arranged an interview with a teacher from an Art College, then he has to get his fingerprints done and then he has to interview for a volunteer position. He gets up grunting, and all bent over in some theatrical version of "I'm dying". He proceeds to angrily state "Get me some type of allergy medicine" I ask why, what's wrong... "Don't you see, my *f..'in* throat is raw, and I can't ..... *f...'in* swallow!". I say, that's not allergies, perhaps it is a cold. Or maybe it's because the a/c has been on, my throat is sore too. "ITS NOT A *f..'in* COLD..... ITS BEEN LIKE THIS FOR DAYS.... *F***! My back instantly gets up, and my tone now changes. I ask him to come to the bathroom so I can look in his throat. I get "blah blah blah" I give him some advil and water. And then I get "THIS WONT *F..'in* help". But he takes them anyway. Now I don't want to speak with him anymore, I'm tired of blowing up - it get's me no where. And dad, he's oblivious to what's happening, because he is self absorbed in his phone that wont charge.

I want to throw him out... send him to the wolves. I'm fed up. My life is chaos around him. I'm at a shrink, a phsychologist, I'm taking pills. I'm at wits end. End my life - yeah, I want to many times. Hell it would be alot easier than having to face him everyday. Getting pooped on day after day for trying to make someone's life easier. But I can't. He needs medication. How will he get it, how will he'pay for it. Do I let him become a bum on the street. Freaked out on drugs and whatever for the world to poop on. Maybe. But how do I do that. I always wonder - what do their mothers think,... how do their mothers feel. I can't be that kind of mother. Where did I go wrong to have a child like this?

I need to print this off and give this to my doctor - my life is totally consumed by his mistakes, and it's not fair.

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I can understand where you are coming from. Some times people feel like they have to be "perfect", don't worry you're not the only one, I do too. I try to help people to the point I can't stand them. I begin to resent them for not solving their own issues. But then I feel bad that I resent them. So I get high strung and stressed out, and depressed down to the dumps. But there is a way to help him and give yourself a bit of a break, as unlikely as it may seem, or as hard as it may sound.

It is clear that your son doesn't seem to want to do anything but feed his addictions, yes we can be addicted to not only drugs, alcohol and porn, etc. But people can also get addicted to thoughts. It is hard since your son has obviously had a very disheartening and painful past. He is all twisted and can't seem to find the tunnel never mind the light at the end. He may need, and I put a heavy enfaces on "MAY NEED", some counseling, as well as medication, but that's not all. No there is so much more to do, there may be a learning disability preventing him from achieving good grades, and if you don't start to use it in the first place you won't loose it, but you won't have it either. More importantly he may need to be shown how to act, or respond. This may mean that he goes to a Psych ward, but not just to pump him full of meds, and forget about him, but to try to teach him how to act, or feel maybe even.

If you don't want to put him in a psych ward, may I suggest trying to Re"shape" his behavior on your own, using something called, Applied behavior analysis, or A.B.A. They use this on children who suffer form Autism, and they can be hard to handle, especially if they are sensitive to touch. (you can't restrain them or they freak out for hours usually.) But if you can't figure things out with A.B.A. (applied Behavior Analysis) then try Looking up "Shaping" under behavioralism. Or look us Behaviorist's "Shaping" (theory.) I'm not sure if that will help you find it but read up on it, and try to apply what it does for those subjects, for your son. May be supper hard though, I strongly suggest you try to find a program where you live that may teach him in it. At any rate, the most important thing is probably consistency. There are no punishments, but if he does not behave in the correct manner, then there are no rewards either. Just don't reward him with drugs or alcohol, try to avoid smokes as a reward, but if necessary, I guess try that. But yes, there is tones more to it, but I can't explain that right now, I've got to go, but good luck, and peace be with you.

I have yet to look up the sources of this book, but I;ve read a book called, "the brain that changes itself" (yes I spelled it right.) It give reference to different different scientists, and their discoveries, and what that means for people. Talks about how our brain changes when we are addicted to things, mostly porn but same kind of idea with drugs and alcohol. It also tells how the brain is affected by abuse, and how we may seek out pain for pleasure, as it seems your son, in some way may feel more comfortable with this "pain for Pleasure" idea. It also talks briefly on how they can correct these things.

Now, if you don't want to try it at home yourself, I suggest you tell a Psychiatrist to try it, or Psychologist, though it would make more sense that he sees a Psychiatrist, they deal more with drugs, who knows maybe they'll send him to a Neuropsychologist. But don't give up, and don't blame yourself, you didn't know. Sure you may have bin able to change it, (had you known) but that was then this is now. You have to try to find a therapy for you son, if you want to help him. Since he was conditioned to behave this way, so can he be reconditioned to behave differently. Just hope he tries.




Peace be with you.

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Originally Posted by KillLois

But we did bring him to the doctors - many times. Arranged for family phisicians, then assessments at a children's hospital, then assessments at a Mentally Ill Hospital. They don't know what to do with him. He will not open up - he hates all of them. He thinks they are distrustfull and do not like him. No one likes him acording to him. Anyone with authority doesn't like him. (So he thinks).

He finally decided that he would speak with his family doctor and his nurse practitioner. It doesn't appear that they are speaking too much now either. I don't think he thinks he needs help. He definately doesn't show that he truly gets what has happened. It's like he thinks everything is OK. What's the matter with us.

Man..... GROW UP!!! Look around you. This is serious stuff. Your waisting your life, and it appears like you think that the world owes you.

I really need to step aside. I don't want to deal with him at all anymore - I just want him to talk to his father. Let my husband do everthing for him. I think, that they will both quickly come to realise what the hell I do for them all.

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Does your son, think he is more important, or rather better than every one else?? If so it sounds like he has a narcissistic personality disorder, if not...

Does your son use people for personal gain or gratification? And does he have trouble dealing with frustration?? He may have Antisocial personality disorder. If not...

Now, I'm not a Doctor, but one of those sounds pretty close, I'd have to know more. At any rate the person in either case is not going to see need for therapy, often motivation comes from other people in their life. They can respond to supportive but forceful confrontation about their destructive thoughts, and behavior. Yes try to see about behavioral modification therapy, and or getting Psychoanalytical help.

Again I'm not a doctor, but I do know a bit about psychological processes.

Peace be with you.

Be prepared my post is not going to make you happy but you posted and I feel I should be honest. I'm just a mother of 3 and no degree in mental health so you can read it and chuck it.

Your not the victim your son is. Actually both of your sons are.


"Where did I go wrong to have a child like this?"

You and your husband created this child, you allowed his surrondings to be disruptive and not face up to problems that was happening.

" my life is totally consumed by his mistakes, and it's not fair"

His life is consumed by you and your husbands mistakes,, he is only a product of his environment.
You are blaming him for your crappy life and that is not fair... wake up and see that you all by your inability/unwillingness to see, acknowledge, and act allowed all of this mess to happen and to continue when there were tons of warning signs... I hope the family is involved in family group counseling.

What do you expect... you and your husband let him live in a home where he was emotionally abused by 4 families with different expections of him... that alone would make any child crack and then sexually abused on top of it.

You found out and moved and then trusted him with your other son... he abused your other son and feels like a failure once again... no wonder he is angry and distrustful... everyone in his life has let him down, when he needed protection for himself and from himself.

Now what can you do for him? First of all you need to say your sorry and take the blame even if no one else in your family will... I hope you all don't make him see his abuser and expect him to pretend like it is one big happy family.

For the protection of your other son... this one should have to go... Sounds like with the way he is, he could get some type of social help SSI and help with housing... I would be pushing for in house mental treatment if he were my son. Going to prison is not going to get him treatment... maybe your lawyer could make a deal with the state if he will get in house treatment they will drop the charges.

I wonder who got children services involved in your life. I would bet that then and only then did you really take a cold hard look at what was going on with both children.

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Originally Posted by Nestorian

I have yet to look up the sources of this book, but i;ve read a book called, "the brain that changes itself" (yes i spelled it right.) It give reference to different different scientists, and their discoveries, and what that means for people. Talks about how our brain changes when we are addicted to things, mostly porn but same kind of idea with drugs and alcohol. It also tells how the brain is affected by abuse, and how we may seek out pain for pleasure, as it seems your son, in some way may feel more comfortable with this "pain for Pleasure" idea. It also talks briefly on how they can correct these things.

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"The Brain That Changes Itself" is a self-help book, not a medical reference book. I certainly have no problem with self help books but I believe the OP is beyond that stage. You cannot make anyone else do anything - quit drugs, quit smoking, love you - so I don't see how a self help book for her is going to help her son.

You presumably read the whole book and have another impression. I'm curious as to what you thought of the book. I've only read excerpts (in a magazine).

And, yes, you did spell it correctly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bushg

Be prepared my post is not going to make you happy but you posted and I feel I should be honest. I'm just a mother of 3 and no degree in mental health so you can read it and chuck it.

Your not the victim your son is. Actually both of your sons are.


"Where did I go wrong to have a child like this?"

You and your husband created this child, you allowed his surrondings to be disruptive and not face up to problems that was happening.

" my life is totally consumed by his mistakes, and it's not fair"

His life is consumed by you and your husbands mistakes,,,,he is only a product of his environment.
You are blaming him for your crappy life and that is not fair...wake up and see that you all by your inability/unwillingness to see, acknowledge, and act allowed all of this mess to happen and to continue when there were tons of warning signs...I hope the family is involved in family group counseling. - First Off, there were no warning signs. None that were apparent to us. Secondly, you need to know, which you didn't that when he was young and he was growing up.. we had to deal with my husband having two major surgeries, loosing his job because of his surgeries and then being a disabled individual from the surgeries. He also is in chronic pain and will be forever. Thirdly - we lived in the "family" home due to financial reasons.

What do you expect...you and your husband let him live in a home where he was emotionally abused by 4 families withe different expections of him...that alone would make any child crack and then sexually abused on top of it.

You found out and moved and then trusted him with your other son...he abused your other son and feels like a failure once again....no wonder he is angry and distrustful...everyone in his life has let him down, when he needed protection for himself and from himself. Here you need to understand that we moved out long before we knew about the abuse. We moved when he was 12, we only just found out - he is now 18. We wanted to move years before, but we were all part of the mortgage and no one could afford to buy us out. The moment one family was able to the did.

Now what can you do for him? first of all you need to say your sorry and take the blame even if no one else in your family will...I hope you all don't make him see his abuser and expect him to pretend like it is one big happy family. Everyone spoke about this together, they both, whom are adults have discussed this with us, and the two are very close. In fact he is the only cousin who doesn't treat him poorly. I cannot make him see anyone - if they choose to see each other as family members and they both feel that it was a choice they made - How can I change that.

For the protection of your other son...this one should have to go....Sounds like with the way he is, he could get some type of social help SSI and help with housing....I would be pushing for in house mental treatment if he were my son. Going to prison is not going to get him treatment...maybe your lawyer could make a deal with the state if he will get in house treatment they will drop the charges. Don't fret - they are not allowed to be alone together. EVER!!! And the youngest is receiving help

I wonder who got children services involved in your life. I would bet that then and only then did you really take a cold hard look at what was going on with both children. Just so you know.... my eldest brought all of this information to our attention.... no one caught him - he finally felt we had to know. We chose to get Children's Aid invovled through our Family Doctor. Not any other way - we were taking control back. Please do not be so condeming without knowing full stories and history. I only am looking to see if I am the only horrid mother out there who has begun to hate her own child. Perhaps you cannot understand that - as I would never be able to if both my boys were the same.

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See my comments within your answer

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

"The Brain That Changes Itself" is a self-help book, not a medical reference book. I certainly have no problem with self help books but I believe the OP is beyond that stage. You cannot make anyone else do anything - quit drugs, quit smoking, love you - so I don't see how a self help book for her is going to help her son.

You presumably read the whole book and have another impression. I'm curious as to what you thought of the book. I've only read excerpts (in a magazine).

And, yes, you did spell it correctly.

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What do you mean by "excperts in a magazine"?? You mean other excperts took a look at it, and said what it was about or how it worked? Or do you mean excperts read it and said it was bull, or the evidence was inconclusice, not sure I got that right? Or were their excperts saying yes this is a plosible answer, or theory?

See, this book doesn't really fit the lable self help, as far as I can tell. Like I said I do have to look into it more, but if it is true. Well, I can only imagine the out comes. The book seems to tell you about a person, with a disability, such as they have a stroke and can't use one side of their body, or a person's "vestipular apparatus" (the sensory organ for the balance system.) is not functioning properly, or peaple have Pain in their Phantom Limbs. This book takes you through all the tales of these people affected by their problems, then it gives scientific backgroung on how it works. (as far as I can tell it's fairly accruate.) {Like I said I'm no Doctor but I love Pysychology, and I've recently started reading into it for fun. I read anything from Text books, to internet theroies, and such.} Any way, the book tells the reader how the problem is affecting the brain, or visversa. Then it tells how the senses can be used indiffernet ways to reorganize the brain to move some brain funtions to othe areas of the brain. The author explains, a belief, that the brain is "Plastic", meaning it can change or reorganize itself to better suit situations, thus changing behavior. Mind you if you believe that the way your body acts and the way we behave are different, you may want to brace yourself for a lot of doubting in this book. The book doesn't seem to say anything about this, but I will.

More an more often I see people "judging" others for the way they "choose" to live life. It seems that some people believe that people choose to fail, or choose to not learn, or choose to no listen; However, if this book is accurate, I believe that there is more to our "free will" than we "think". How so you may ask? Well, if our brain is the control center for the body, and the mind is some how interconected to the brain (as it seems most psychologists believe that the mind and brain are individual.) then logically, our "free will" is influenced by our brain. How? I've yet to discover that, or rather understand fully my own theory.
One clear indication that our brain influences our "free will" is that when a person is not chemically right in the brain, then they are often either mentally ill or depressed. That seems to mess with a lot of people's thinking, or at least it does mine. That doesn't mean that I'm a product of my brain chemistry, or upbringing. (which both have a big impact upon how we behave.) We can choose to break free of this, however, it is not easy, since you feel like crap, you think like crap, and you generally behave like crap. If you can find out what it is that you are suffering from, I believe you can correct it, but not with meds alone (balancing the brain out again.), reconstructive thinking alone (positive thinking), or behavioral cahnges (positive behaviors). There is also how you eat, that influences your brain and body chemistry a lot. So really, in order for some one to "get better" they need to be given proper meds, willing to try (or forced to realize that they are behaving in an inapropriate manner and forced to try. Remember some people won't even realise what they are doing and will fight against help. It's not their fault.), also they should be taught how to correct their behavior. Mind you, thinking can be a behavior, so sometimes they need to be taught to think too. Eating healthy is also important.

So I'm not sure if I just went off on a ramble again, I've got a bad habbit of doing that. Mostly because I've not yet learned to express my thoughts through either writing or words. At any rate I hope this helps your lets you know more about the book. Basic idea, the brain is "plastic" and it can change/ use different parts to fullfil different functions. We can help ourselves and others, we just have to keep at it, find out what is wrong, and figure a way out to fix it. But it has scientific evidence or at least it says there is scientific evidence. If you find out any thing about it please be sure to let me know.

"as I would never be able to if both my boys were the same."

You hate the eldest because he handles molestation differently than the younger one, doesn't make much sense to me. I understand that a cousin molested one and the other molestor was the brother... I'm not sure if the relationship makes that much of a difference when it all boils down to it... you let an abuse victim be a protector of your younger son... you don't make much sense to me. I don't think you are living in the real world.

You hate what you helped to create... I am sorry that you can" see that.

In my area if this had been taken to a family doctor then family would not have had a choice but to get family services involved. Even if you had taken this to a counselor they would have gotten family services involved... if everyone is so willing, has the power to hide this molestation including your doctor, no wonder he is not accepting of help and has distrust issues... seems to me that no one has done what is in the best interest of him.

Your not the only person that has turned their head, stuck it in the sand and couldn't bear to see what was happening many other moms have done the same thing. I know a few personally that have done it... yeah they ended up hating their child as well with misplaced the blame.

It is easier to blame the true victim than to be honest and see what part you played in all I of this and go forward from there.
By you making yourself the victim in all of this you get the attention focused on you, you don't have to take responsibility for your former actions and get pitied by family, friends, co-workers and the strangers that you choose to tell.
Go see your therapist, get your meds and never take responsibility for your part in this. Push aside the fact your son is in pain he needs understanding, he is angry, hurt and alone now is not the time to pity yourself. Both of your children need help not just the oldest one... but I think social services will see to it that the younger one gets help. Sad fact is th oldest one will probably continue to be ignored because he has reached the magic age.
What were you expecting all of us to say from your first post... bad son banish him from your life you have no responsibility to him, you have done everything you could. Pat yourself on your back and continue with your life.

Good luck to your children and your family.

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Originally Posted by Nestorian

What do you mean by "excperts in a magazine"??? You mean other excperts took a look at it, and said what it was about or how it worked?? Or do you mean excperts read it and said it was bull, or the evidence was inconclusice, not sure i got that right?? Or were thier excperts saying yes this is a plosible answer, or theory??

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Excerpt - "Meaning of excerpt (noun) form: excerpts meaning: an extract or selection from written or printed matter." "1 : to select (a passage) for quoting : extract
2 : to take or publish extracts from (as a book)"

Expert - "someone widely recognized as a reliable source of technique or skill whose faculty for judging or deciding rightly, justly, or wisely is accorded authority and status by their peers or the public. An expert."

I think right now your at a crossroad with your son and don't know what to do. You try everything possible there is to help him and don't know how else to help him. Sadly, in order for him to accept help he have to want it and be open to it. I'll say don't give up and maybe one day he would get help.

Being molested at a child by a relative you think that the parent would automatically know and hope they can resue you, but like you my mother did not find out until I told her in my adult years, which my therapist help me do or better yet give me the confidence to do. Mom was in shock at first because there was no signs so I don't blame her because I know my mother would not never put me in harms way.

When you see your therapist can she/he help you with a solution.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Excerpt - "Meaning of excerpt (noun) form: excerpts meaning: an extract or selection from written or printed matter." "1 : to select (a passage) for quoting : extract
2 : to take or publish extracts from (as a book)"

Expert - "someone widely recognized as a reliable source of technique or skill whose faculty for judging or deciding rightly, justly, or wisely is accorded authority and status by their peers or the public. An expert."

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Ah yes now I understand, I was a little tired when I read that this morning, on account that I had just got off work from night sift. Any way thank you for clearing that up. Funny how I read it as expert but typed it as excerpt. Aparently only a hand full of people can do this. Ah well what can you do eh. Take care...

QUOTE:KillLois Since he was our only child at the time, his cousins (who had siblings) picked on him. We tried to stop it by brining it up with my in-laws, but it was always brushed off as "they are only children - children can be mean, and "name" needs to stop trying to attract attention to himself".
No matter the circumstance (you mention you had to live there b/c of your husbands disablity etc.) Your job was to protect your son. Asking someone else to step in and control their children's behavior was the minimum, You were responsible from keeping your child from those that were harming him. Period.

After 5 years, his brother was born, and "name" to this day feels resentful.
And rightfully so, No?

We only recently (Feb) found out that our son had been "abused" by his older cousin sexually. They are 5 years appart and his cousin is gay. Our son never told us about this, and we have all spoken about it openly. It appears with both of them that it was consentual, but how does a 10 year old know what is consent to a 15 year old.
Do you really think your 10 year old son consented to sexual activity with his older cousin? Even if he didnt put up a fight or run off to tell what had happened, I would venture to say that this was a manipulation and he was a victim. He may not even feel like a victim But he was and I hope you fully understand this.

We also found out in Feb that this went on for 2 years. Then we moved out of the "family" home to our own house. When he was 12 he started the same abuse with his brother who is 5 years younger than he. Therefore with him being 12 his brother was only 7. It was also at this time that his anger was becoming apparent and his younger brother would not confront him.
This isnt surprising to hear that a victim of sexual abuse has victimized someone else. It is an awful act and I can only imagine how hard it is to see him and as a victim becuase it's easy to turn to resentment when thinking of how he victimized his brother. But it is very important to realize that this act is only more trauma for him to deal with. He must be very torn for his actions...And if he hasnt expressed them verbally look at his actions it's clear that he's acting out of possible guilt and anger.

I feel very guilty in the fact that his younger brother was left alone with him for years - we looked toward "name" as our youngest's protector. How far from the truth could we be.
This is a perfect example of a parental expectation that can't be fulfilled by the child. You didnt know your child (whether you tried with no avail or not) He couldnt have been what you wanted "a protector"...He wasnt capable because of his own issues of neglect and abuse so please dont hold this failed expectation against him, He simply couldnt live up to it.

He started drinking at a young age, then got into drugs (which again only became aparent late last year) - Don't worry... I keep asking myself the same question.. "Where was I? How did I not see?" He has never had good academics. Never any good friends. Many bad crowds, and he is a follower - has no self esteem. Has been bullied, and is now a bully. We have tried so hard to get him help. Help from phsychiatrists, hospitals, therapists. He never wanted help - he had a secret that no one could know.
From reading this it's easy to see why he's heading down his current path...You listed a quite a few things that portray all the negative things present in his life: sexual abuse to bad friends...But I have yet to see the positive. What's being done to combat all of these things that are there to ruin this person, your son?
You said you've tried to get him help. Great dont stop! This shouldnt be a past tense statement, You should be trying to get him help. Im sure that things are in place to help heal your younger son and your oldest deserve nothing less.



We've had to hire a criminal lawyer (I've never had to do this before). It will cost us up to $5K for his stupidity.
Here I can see your frustration about his behavior, So you should realize this will continue but will most likely get worse if the proper help isnt sought out for him. So push forward!

He still doesn't have a job. He had one for a short while, but was laid off after seasonal employment. They didn't keep him on because of his inability to shut his mouth with his superiors. And his attitude.
This only reinforces the notion that there is a lot of work to be done with this young man. He can't be expected to behavior like a normal, responsible, determined 18 year old when everything here suggests that his life up until this point hasnt prepared him to be that way. Does this make sense? Do you see how his past has shaped him into this person, a terrible past that he had no control over...Can you really expect him to just get up and be "normal".



Every day, I try hard to find ways for him to change his life - find new friends, get better grades, find a job, talk to him, help him learn how to speak with others. All I seem to get from it is verbal abuse. He never swears at me, but uses the swear words intertwined in his vocabulary. As an example. This morning, I wake him early as I have arranged an interview with a teacher from an Art College, then he has to get his fingerprints done and then he has to interview for a volunteer position. He gets up grunting, and all bent over in some theatrical version of "I'm dying". He proceeds to angrily state "Get me some type of allergy medicine" I ask why, what's wrong... "Don't you see, my *f..'in* throat is raw, and I can't ..... *f...'in* swallow!". I say, that's not allergies, perhaps it is a cold. Or maybe it's because the a/c has been on, my throat is sore too. "ITS NOT A *f..'in* COLD..... ITS BEEN LIKE THIS FOR DAYS.... *F***! My back instantly gets up, and my tone now changes. I ask him to come to the bathroom so I can look in his throat. I get "blah blah blah" I give him some advil and water. And then I get "THIS WONT *F..'in* help". But he takes them anyway. Now I don't want to speak with him anymore, I'm tired of blowing up - it get's me no where. And dad, he's oblivious to what's happening, because he is self absorbed in his phone that wont charge.
This really does seem frustrating to say the least but you have to remember that you're dealing with someone that abuses drugs to medicate this unbearable torture/mental anguish from sexually abuse and being an abuser.

I want to throw him out... send him to the wolves. I'm fed up. My life is chaos around him. I'm at a shrink, a phsychologist, I'm taking pills. I'm at wits end. End my life - yeah, I want to many times. Hell it would be alot easier than having to face him everyday.
Why isnt he seeing someone?
Why dont you think of what he faces everyday because of his past...Im sure he's at his wits end aswell, especially not having the resources to deal with all of the issues

He needs medication. How will he get it, how will he'pay for it. Do I let him become a bum on the street.
That's for a professional to decide...isnt he currently self medicating? Well, that isnt working and from the looks of it your method of medication isnt curing your mental anguish either, since you'd rather die than deal with this properly?


The answers that you receive are in correspondence to what you've written, hopefully you can find some help within what has been said...a different perspective perhaps.

bushg: Now what can you do for him? First of all you need to say your sorry and take the blame even if no one else in your family will... I hope you all don't make him see his abuser and expect him to pretend like it is one big happy family.

KillLois: Everyone spoke about this together, they both, whom are adults have discussed this with us, and the two are very close. In fact he is the only cousin who doesn't treat him poorly. I cannot make him see anyone - if they choose to see each other as family members and they both feel that it was a choice they made - How can I change that.

You may not know this but there is probably a very unnatural and destructive (to the healing process) kind of relationship between your son and his cousin.
Often times especially when dealing with sexual abuse within a family the relationship between the abuser and victim becomes very skewed because of manipulation amongst other things.
Unlike what's displayed on television shows, sometimes the victim may not show only signs of fear, resent or hatred towards their abuser they may show fondness and cling to that person
.
So, basically don't be fooled by their cordiality with each other, they still have an Abuser-Victim relationship until professional help is put into place and taken advantage of. They both need help!

And this probably wasn't the type of situation where you should have had an "open family discussion" this is a personal issue that effects everyone but should be dealt with much more cautiously.

Also you mention that they are both adults that have discussed this with you... realize that they probably have tainted perceptions about each other and what happened (b/c of their pasts) so what you heard may not have been reality. Therapy really is needed!!

Also you must take into consideration that because of the addictions that your sons brain has not developed at the same level as his peers... drugs and alcohol destroy brain cells.

By the way, the name "killlois" I find it odd that you'd use this for a name. Maybe you're expressing your hopelessness feelings of life, but why did you choose this name, if you don't mind my asking?

On account that Stewie from "family Guy" would say something like that, and family guy is meant for hummor, you don't sound very hummorous. No offence, just doesn't seem to fit that's all. Of course I realize, "lois" could be your name, or some one you associate yourself as being like. And thus voicing your distaste for the life you have. Or maybe you are just trying to loosen things up, but really you don't sound like it.

Any who just curious. Peace be with you.

I can tell you through what I went through as I was a teen I was mad and angry all the time I had some bad things happen to me and hated my parents for it and punished them in any way possible that I could think off... WE fought and fought and I did more drugs and drugs
I had a lot a big monkey on my back, I didn't care and went with it for the longest time tell one day I came home and my mom grab me in which I thought I was going to get hit, but instead she held me in her arms and t hugged me and told me she loved me and how sorry she was... Totally blew me away I thought I was hard core bad and no one could ever get to me and all it took was mom saying those words over and over, I've never cryed so much.. After that we talked no yelling just talk I told some of the things but something were just to bad to tell her so I eventually agreed to go to rehab.. I went to sundown re hab in selaha Washington... This placed saved my life.. They don't deal so much for the drugs but the reasons your using they get down to the nitty gritty they won't take any bull they are there for the addict to do what ever it takes... I really believe that's where he needs to go there are tons of councelers and they have had some people go to different facilities that can help they the best... But going through something similar TELL HIM YOU LOVE HIM, EVERYDAY LET HIM KNOW IT... AND CALL A TREATMENT CENTER AND TELL THEM EVERYTHING THEY'LL TAKE HIM...
Just keep praying for him and don't let him treat you like that but don't yell talk, there will have to be major changes in the family but its all for the best... What he is doing is acting out cause he pissed at you or your husband there has to be change by everyoneor thins won't work... You have to unite as a family and remember that this is a Family problem not just his, he didn't get his attitude with out a little help from the whole family soooo ITs important that every one get help and be supportive of one another.. Dont look at him as he is the trouble maker everyone there has had there hand in this, and don't you dare TURN YOUR BACK ON HIM he loves you and that little boy needs his mom now... So give him a hug and get him help the rehab help me so much to come to terms with my problems ans addictions...


Good luck you are all in my prayers