Ask Me Help Desk - Obama flips on health care mandates

"flip"

Remember during those endlessly mind-numbing Democrat debates one of the "real " differences between the big B.O. and Evita was the issue of a mandate requiring individuals purchase health care .Evita was in favor and Obama correctly argued that mandates were wrong because a mandate would impose unfair fines on working people who failed to purchase insurance.

Well that was then... this is now :

Quote:

"Senator Obama is willing to consider any sort of proposal that would bring together, not just the insurance industry but . . . the consumers themselves," said Obama adviser Dr. Kavita Patel...

Asked if Obama would be seen as reversing himself if he were to endorse an individual mandate after clashing with Clinton on the issue, Patel dismissed the concern.
"He has not said he is opposed to it," Patel told ABC News. "He has voiced his disagreement with having that be a part of his health-care plan last year. But he is not opposed to the idea itself." Patel added that the Obama campaign is in touch with former Clinton health-care advisers.

Political Radar: Obama Health Plan Could Go In Clinton's Direction

Then in the same story came Obama's "flop".

Quote:

"Senator Obama does not have plans to change his health care plan, which will achieve universal coverage," Obama spokesman Bill Burton tells ABC News. "As he has consistently said throughout this campaign, he will bring together businesses, the medical community and members of both parties around a comprehensive solution to this issue."

So will he change his plan or not ?

Where's this dude going to show up next? Morris has a new book (I haven't read it); he was on Hannity & Colmes last night saying health care is a winning issue for McCain. Evidently, under the Obama scheme, citizens would have to defer to 15 million illegal aliens for health care, as well as stand behind them for organ transplants. "He wants to cover 12 million illegal immigrants with federally subsidized health insurance, dramatically driving up costs and forcing federal rationing of healthcare. As in the U.K. and Canada, you will not be permitted certain medical procedures if the bureaucrats decide you are not worth it." RealClearPolitics - Articles - The Debate McCain Must Force

Quote:

Originally Posted by George_1950

Where's this dude going to show up next? Morris has a new book (I haven't read it); he was on Hannity & Colmes last night saying health care is a winning issue for McCain. Evidently, under the Obama scheme, citizens would have to defer to 15 million illegal aliens for health care, as well as stand behind them for organ transplants. "He wants to cover 12 million illegal immigrants with federally subsidized health insurance, dramatically driving up costs and forcing federal rationing of healthcare. As in the U.K. and Canada, you will not be permitted certain medical procedures if the bureaucrats decide you are not worth it." RealClearPolitics - Articles - The Debate McCain Must Force

But George, don't you get it? There are those who actively support Obama on this forum and elsewhere who also must want these things you just mentioned. They are FOR it, not against it. If Obama is for it, so are they. So get ready to take out your pocketbook and subsidize his "health plan". I mean, it's really only 12 million illegal immigrants, George, you have to look at it that way. It's a humanitarian thing. Just a drop in the bucket for our immigrant friends and if Obama sits in the Oval Office, he will take great joy and glee in using his pen to write out checks right and left in support of this because it's his plan. Nothing to it. So, get to work you conservatives who don't believe in socialist programs. Get to work so you can pay more taxes so Obama can fund these programs you love to hate. That's what we are looking at, George. But when the majority of people who voted for him got him as the nominee, what did that say? That they are Ready, Willing and Able to open up their pocketbooks and support his liberal plans to the hilt and guess what? It also included REPUBLICANS. Doesn't matter if you like it or not, you're going to HAVE to like it and shell out the dough for his programs, bud, just that simple really! No more hard-core Republican Party in this country. No more GOP to stand in the way of blocking these and other "socialist" programs. It's a thing of the past that cannot, I repeat, cannot be resurrected. No more... gone, exodus, finis. So, it won't matter what conservatives say or think anymore, right Babbie?

All of you: what are you doing still reading this? Get To Work - Obama Needs Your Money!!:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyGem

All of you: what are you doing still reading this?? Get To Work - Obama Needs Your Money!!:)

P.S. Oh dear! Your sweet uncle Babbie would be very upset if I didn't use the usual tag lines. So, here we go.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyGem

So, it won't matter what conservatives say or think anymore, right Babbie? All of you: what are you doing still reading this?? Get To Work - Obama Needs Your Money!!:)

Hello again, Sky:

I don't know. YOUR candidate, the no deal girl, is going to enact a universal health plan too. It's not much different than Obamas. It's going to cost you money too... WAAAAAY more money than John McCains health care plan.

Or, did you make a little slip there when you called yourself conservative? Why wouldn't you be supporting the Republican bred conservative candidate, instead of a LIBERAL lady who's going to spend your money like those LIBS love to do?

I don't get it. Really. Splain it to me. I think you're a John McCain PLANT!

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Sky:

I dunno. YOUR candidate, the no deal girl, is gonna enact a universal health plan too. It's not much different than Obamas. It's gonna cost you money too.... WAAAAAY more money than John McCains health care plan.

Or, did you make a little slip there when you called yourself conservative? Why wouldn't you be supporting the Republican bred conservative candidate, instead of a LIBERAL lady who's gonna spend your money like those LIBS love to do?

I don't get it. Really. Splain it to me. I think you're a John McCain PLANT!

excon

Ah, ex, that's why you're my EX! I see so much more of what's happening TO Hillary rather than just some of the programs she would enact. That's why she deserves support from people. She can't simply be pushed out the door so easily because she's a woman and in this country women do get paid less than men. That has to change and I don't see it changing unless Hillary is the nominee. The line has to be drawn somewhere and parity must exist for women in this country. That's why we say:

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyGem

She can't simply be pushed out the door so easily because she's a woman and in this country women do get paid less than men. That has to change and I don't see it changing unless Hillary is the nominee. The line has to be drawn somewhere and parity must exist for women in this country.

Hello again, Sky:

"So, easily because she's a woman"... BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN?? Don't you pay attention, Sky? She's being pushed aside because she LOST the election. She really did. Nobody cheated her. She lost. Do you understand the concept of winning and losing? What? As a conservative, you don't believe in the voice of the people?? You don't believe in the majority making its wishes known?

"The line has to be drawn"?? What did you say? THE LINE HAS TO BE DRAWN?? Just where to you think you live, lady?? What? She should be appointed?

You're being silly now. You're dismissed.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Sky:

"The line has to be drawn"????? What did you say?? THE LINE HAS TO BE DRAWN???? Just where to you think you live, lady??? What? She should be appointed??

excon

Well, ex, she was appointed, in NY. Hey, Gem: welcome to the real world.

The Top 5 John McCain Flip-Flops | Politicususa

"

1). Immigration:

John McCain used to support amnesty for illegal immigrants. May 29, 2003 interview: "Amnesty has to be an important part because there are people who have lived in this country for 20, 30 or 40 years, who have raised children here and pay taxes here and are not citizens." Dec. 15, 2000 press release: "I support the Latino and Immigrant Fairness Act (LIFA). Negotiations between the White House and the leadership, which endorsed more limited immigration reform, have resulted in a compromise.... this bill makes meaningful but insufficient progress on amnesty for those wrongly denied it.

McCain 2008:

“Look, I have said time after time that no one can be reward for illegal behavior. The context of that conversation, don't you call that "amnesty." I have said in hundreds of hours of debate on the Senate floor, we reward no one for illegal behavior They have to pay fines. They have to take the naturalization. About two million people here in this country who have come illegally, have committed crimes here in America, and they have to be deported immediately.”

2). Abortion:

In 1999, McCain didn’t support repealing Roe v. Wade. “I’d love to see a point where it is irrelevant, and could be repealed because abortion is no longer necessary. But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade, which would then force X number of women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations.”

McCain 2008:

“I am pro-life and an advocate for the Rights of Man everywhere in the world, because to be denied liberty is an offense to nature and nature's Creator. I will never waver in that conviction. Our liberty will not be seized in a political revolution or by a totalitarian government. But, rather, as Burke warned, it can be "nibbled away, for expedience, and by parts." I am alert to that risk and will defend against it, and I will be encouraged in that defense by my fellow conservatives.”

3). Offshore Drilling:

McCain used to be a staunch opponent of offshore drilling. Here is what a questionnaire from the Sustainable Energy Coalition said about his position on offshore drilling, “Senator John McCain, who criticized the Clinton Administration for its decision to extend 36 offshore oil leaves along the central California coast over the objections of that state's Governor and Attorney General, has promised to never lose sight of the fundamental principle that federal land management decisions affecting local communities must be made in cooperation with the Americans who call those communities home."

McCain 2008:

"We have proven oil reserves of at least 21 billion barrels in the United States. But a broad federal moratorium stands in the way of energy exploration and production. And I believe it is time for the federal government to lift these restrictions and to put our own reserves to use.”

4). The Bush Tax Cuts: McCain was one of only two Senate Republicans to vote against the Bush tax cuts in 2001. “I am disappointed that the Senate Finance Committee preferred instead to cut the top tax rate of 39.6% to 36%, thereby granting generous tax relief to the wealthiest individuals of our country at the expense of lower- and middle-income American taxpayers.”

McCain 2008:

“I will not let the Democrats roll back the Bush tax cuts. I believe we should protect the American family against partisan tax increases by requiring a three-fifths majority in Congress to raise taxes. But that is just a start.”

5). The Economy: This is a record even for McCain. He managed to change his position on whether or not Americans were better off now than they were 8 years ago overnight. In an April 17 interview with Bloomberg TV, McCain said, “I think if you look at the overall record and millions of jobs have been created, et cetera, et cetera, you could make an argument that there’s been great progress economically over that period of time. But that’s no comfort. That’s no comfort to families now that are facing these tremendous economic challenges.”

The next day in an interview with Al Hunt on the very same network McCain said, “I respect the views of people who basically think that the status quo is satisfactory today. I don’t. I think Americans are hurting, and hurting badly. In fact, I think Americans are not better off than they were eight years ago, when you look at what’s happened to middle-income Americans.”"

Crooks and Liars » McCain Sets a New Record: 10 Flip-Flops in Two Weeks

YouTube - John McCain on Privatizing Social Secuirty

"In his eternal quest for the Republican presidential nomination, the supposed maverick John McCain has repeatedly reversed long-held positions and compromised purportedly core principles. From the Bush tax cuts, the religious right and immigration reform to overturning Roe v. Wade, proclaiming Samuel Alito a model Supreme Court Justice and bashing France (just to name a few), McCain changed sides as changing political conditions dictated.

But over the past two weeks, McCain’s rapid fire, acrobatic flip-flops have produced whiplash, at least for voters. 10 times since the beginning of June, McCain has retreated from, upended or just forgotten positions he once claimed as his own. On Social Security, balancing the budget, defense spending, domestic surveillance and a host of other issues so far this month, McCain’s “Straight Talk Express” did a U-turn on the road to the White House.

1. Social Security Privatization. John McCain has apparently learned the lesson that the more President Bush spoke about his Social Security privatization scheme, the less popular it became. On Friday, Mr. Straight Talk proclaimed at a New Hampshire event, “I’m not for, quote, privatizing Social Security. I never have been. I never will be.” Sadly, McCain and his advisers like ousted HP CEO Carly Fiorina are on record declaring fidelity to the idea of diverting Social Security dollars into private accounts. On November 18, 2004, for example, McCain announced, “Without privatization, I don’t see how you can possibly, over time, make sure that young Americans are able to receive Social Security benefits.” And in March 2003, McCain backed his President, declaring, “As part of Social Security reform, I believe that private savings accounts are a part of it - along the lines that President Bush proposed.” As they say, let’s go to the videotape.

2. Raising - and Slashing - Defense Spending. As Steve Benen noted Friday, John McCain was also for boosting American defense spending before he was against it. In the November 2007 issue of Foreign Affairs, McCain argued “we can also afford to spend more on national defense, which currently consumes less than four cents of every dollar that our economy generates - far less than what we spent during the Cold War.” But facing the $2 trillion budgetary hole the McCain tax plan is forecast to produce (a sea of red ink even the Wall Street Journal noticed), Team McCain changed its tune. As Forbes scoffed in amazement:

“McCain’s top economic adviser, Doug Holtz-Eakin, blithely supposes that cuts in defense spending could make up for reducing the corporate tax rate from 35% to 25% and the subsequent shrinkage in federal revenues. Get that? The national security candidate wants to cut spending on our national security. Wait until the generals and the admirals hear that.”

3. First Term Balanced Budget Pledge. With its on-again/off-again/on-again promise to balance the budget by January 2013, the McCain campaign executed that rarest of political maneuvers, the 360. During a February 15th rally in La Crosse, Wisconsin, “McCain promised he’d offer a balanced budget by the end of his first term.” But just days later, McCain’s senior economic adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin announced a deficit-ending target of 2017. In mid-April, Holtz-Eakin proclaimed, “I would like the next president not to talk about deficit reduction.” McCain, too, signaled the retreat from his first-term balance budget commitment, explaining to Chris Matthews on April 15th that “economic conditions are reversed.”

Apparently economic conditions have improved dramatically since then. On June 6, Holtz-Eakin squared the circle, announcing, “That plan, when appropriately phased in, as it has always been intended to be, will bring the budget to balance by the end of his first term.”

4. The Media’s Treatment of Hillary Clinton. No doubt, John McCain suffers from recurring bouts of selective amnesia. And some episodes take only days to manifest themselves. During his disastrous “green screen” speech on June 3, McCain reached out to Hillary Clinton’s supporters by proclaiming, “The media often overlooked how compassionately she spoke to the concerns and dreams of millions of Americans, and she deserves a lot more appreciation than she sometimes received.” But by June 7, McCain denied to Newsweek that his media critique never passed his lips, “I did not–that was in prepared remarks, and I did not–I’m not in the business of commenting on the press and their coverage or not coverage.”

5. The Estate Tax. Just days before his contortionist act on Social Security, John McCain reversed course on the estate tax as well. On June 8, 2006, McCain on the Senate floor expressed his agreement with Teddy Roosevelt that “most great civilized countries have an income tax and an inheritance tax” and “in my judgment both should be part of our system of federal taxation.” But after years of battling Republican colleagues dead-set on dismantling the so-called “death tax” and instead promoting a $5 million trigger, on Tuesday John McCain sounded the retreat. Now, he insists, “the estate tax is one of the most unfair tax laws on the books.”"

6-10

Crooks and Liars » McCain Sets a New Record: 10 Flip-Flops in Two Weeks

YouTube - John McCain on Privatizing Social Secuirty

"6. FISA, Domestic Surveillance and Telecom Immunity. When it comes to the Bush administration's program of domestic spying on Americans, McCain has performed similar logical gymnastics. On December 20, 2007, McCain suggested to the Pulitzer prize-winning journalist Charles Savage that President Bush had clearly crossed the line. As Wired's Ryan Singel noted:

“I think that presidents have the obligation to obey and enforce laws that are passed by Congress and signed into law by the president, no matter what the situation is,” McCain said. The Globe's Charlie Savage pushed further, asking , “So is that a no, in other words, federal statute trumps inherent power in that case, warrantless surveillance?” To which McCain answered, “I don't think the president has the right to disobey any law.”

But on June 2, McCain adviser Holtz-Eakin put that notion to rest, telling the National Review:

“[N]either the Administration nor the telecoms need apologize for actions that most people, except for the ACLU and the trial lawyers, understand were Constitutional and appropriate in the wake of the attacks on September 11, 2001.”

Pressed to explain the glaring inconsistencies, John McCain on June 6 played dumb, deciding that cowardice is the better part of valor. As the New York Times reported, McCain now believes the legality of Bush's regime of NSA domestic surveillance is unclear and, in any event, is old news:

“It's ambiguous as to whether the president acted within his authority or not,” he said, saying courts had ruled different ways on the matter. “I'm not interested in going back. I'm interested in addressing the challenge we face to day of trying to do everything we can to counter organizations and individuals that want to destroy this country. So there's ambiguity about it. Let's move forward.”

As for immunity for the telecommunications firms cooperating with the White House in what before August 2007 was doubtless illegal surveillance, there too McCain's position has evolved. On May 23, campaign surrogate Chuck Fish announced that McCain would not back retroactive immunity “unless there were revealing Congressional hearings and heartfelt repentance from those telephone and internet companies.” Subsequently, the McCain campaign swiftly backtracked, claiming its man supports immunity unconditionally.

7. Restoring the Everglades. On June 5, John McCain traveled to the Everglades to win over Floridians and environmentally-minded voters. There he proclaimed, “I am in favor of doing whatever's necessary to save the Everglades.” Sadly, as ThinkProgress documented, McCain not only opposed $2 billion in funding for the restoration of the Everglades national park, he backed President Bush's veto of the legislation in 2007. “I believe,” he said, “that we should be passing a bill that will authorize legitimate, needed projects without sacrificing fiscal responsibility.”

8. Divestment from South Africa. During his June 2 speech to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), John McCain called for the international community to target Iran for the kind of worldwide sanctions regime applied to apartheid-era South Africa. Unfortunately, McCain's lobbyist-advisers Charlie Black and Rick Davis each represented firms doing business with Tehran. Even more unfortunate, John McCain was frequently not among those offering “moral clarity and conviction” in backing “a divestment campaign against South Africa, helping to rid that nation of the evil of apartheid.” As ThinkProgress detailed:

Despite voting to override President Reagan's veto of a bill imposing economic sanctions against South Africa in 1986, McCain voted against sanctions on at least six other occasions.

9. Fighting Job Losses in Michigan. During the run-up to the Michigan primary, John McCain cautioned workers there in January that he didn't want to raise “false hopes that somehow we can bring back lost jobs,” adding that it” wasn't government's job to protect buggy factories and haberdashers when cars replaced carriages and men stopped wearing hats.” But after getting trounced in Michigan by Mitt Romney and watching the economy deteriorate further, McCain has had a change of heart. As Bloomberg noted on June 5:

Nowadays, the party's presumptive nominee is singing a different tune, striking a populist pose and saying “new jobs are coming”… …Over the past few months, however, McCain has taken a lesson from Romney, acknowledging recently that “Americans are hurting.” Returning to Michigan last month, the Arizona senator told a local television station that he would fight for new jobs and the state wouldn't “be left behind.”

Perhaps the good people of Michigan, as John McCain suggested to a Kentucky audience in April, can make a living on eBay.

10. Opposing Hurricane Katrina Investigations. During a June 4th town hall meeting in Baton Rouge, John McCain answered a reporter's question regarding Hurricane Katrina and the failure of the New Orleans levees by announcing:

“I've supported every investigation and ways of finding out what caused the tragedy. I've been here to New Orleans. I've met with people on the ground.”

As it turns out, not so much. McCain's revisionist history neglects to mention that in 2005 and 2006 he twice voted against a commission to study the government's response to Katrina. He also opposed three separate emergency funding measures providing relief to Katrina victims, including the extension of five months of Medicaid benefits. And as ThinkProgress pointed out, “until traveling there one month ago, McCain had made just one public tour of New Orleans since Hurricane Katrina touched down in August 2005.”

And so it goes. As surely as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west each day, so too will John McCain change positions. (Like that other law of nature, McCain's flip-flops are literally becoming a daily occurrence. Since this piece was originally drafted on Saturday, McCain added two new policy turnabouts - on phasing out rather than repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax and on requiring a litmus test for his judicial appointees - to his litany of reversals.) As the Pew Research Center recently found, the word Americans now most frequently use to describe John McCain is not “maverick,” but “old.” Given the dizzying pace of his reversals, “opportunist” may soon top that list."

Quote:

Originally Posted by George_1950

Hey, Gem: welcome to the real world.

Greetings don't have much effect on the old girl, and reality is not her forte. Coach her down from the roof slowly. After she's standing ground level, bend the Gem at a 90 degree angle and try using a tube of extra strength hemroid medication and an enema kit the size of a weather balloon on her scorned tuchus.

Welcome the real world of Republicrats. The whole point of making statements is to secure votes. The Oil companies tell the politicians what to do. Their money has been diversified into all large segments of our economy including the drug companies which own the HMO's that have bought most of the hospitals. Don't buy political promises, buy stock in energy providers.

Concerned about Obama the "Flip-flopper"? Then consider the REAL ALTERNATIVE:

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The Great FlipFlopper McBush.

McCain is a man of no character or principles he has abandoned any pretense of
Consistency and integrity because he has flip-flopped on many issues in order to get votes in November.

1. He opposed tax cuts to the wealthy; now supports them

2. Sponsored major campaign finance reform in a bill that bears his name; now against.

3. Was firmly against torture; now for torture.

4. Has been on both sides of the ethanol issue, for and against.

5. Has been on both sides of state promotion of the confederate flag; for and against.

6. Has been on both sides of overturning Roe v Wade; was against, now for.

7. Criticized religious right with comments like”agents of intolerance”; now sought
Support of Haggee and other right wing hatemongers.

8. Was against sending more troops to Iraq before he was for it.

9. Was against OFFSHORE DRILLING A MONTH AGO(May 08)NOW FOR
DRILLING OFF CALIFORNIA AND FLORIDA

Obama's healthcare proposal in the debates was healthcare for all people who wanted healthcare. Hillary was against his proposal.

Look toward the Democratic Convention for more details. :)

For the "confused" posters here, Bush's Fascists have plunged America into **dangerous debt**, very dangerous debt! *Real Conservatives* don't act so recklessly, but Fascists waging a war of adventurism did.

Clinton left a budget surplus, now, the American economy is in trouble thanks to Bush.

The Democrats will have to make a lot of changes to repair all the damage Bush and his jackal friends did.

Yeah I had been wondering about that because for the past 7 months I have heard him make statements like he was for the health care for everyone but when he wanted to criticize Hillary for it it seemed like a different story.
I always figured he wanted to do a health care plan too but wanted to make Hillary look stupid with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

"flip"

And here is yet ANOTHER example of a recent flip-flop Obama has made. He makes for a great clown with those Big Flip-Flops doesn't he!

Political Radar: McCain: On Some Issues 'Obama's Word Cannot Be Trusted'

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Choux

The Democrats will have to make a lot of changes to repair all the damage Bush and his jackal friends did.

:D

How about a nationwide ban on guns, like the one in Washington, DC? ;)

For all the longs winded responses that deflect to McCain perhaps you can create your own positng on the subject . The problem with Obama is that since he has such a thin public record to examine ,his words takes on more importance. We are not examining a long public record where over time his position has evolved. Instead there is already a long list of things he has said that contradict things and positions he has taken in a few short weeks and months.

I think he will go further and propose individual mandates because currently there is a huge flaw in his plan. Obama's plan,until his next flip on the issue, imposes a "guaranteed issue" requirement on insurers, meaning that they have to provide coverage to anybody who applies for a policy, regardless of risk factors or preexisting conditions. But what this does is drive up the cost of insurance for everybody else, and healthy people have the ability to bolt the market because if insurers are required to cover somebody no matter what, I can save a lot of money on monthly premiums by simply waiting until I gets sick to purchase insurance.

So if there is a mandate imposed on insurers to provide coverage then there would be no choice but to compel every American to purchase insurance... like it or not. Go ahead libertarians and Obamacans vote for him
.

In other words you think that an experience old flip-flopper like McCain deserves a pass. I don't. Now I'm not the biggest proponent for UHC, but let's see here: you want people to go without insurance because of preexisting conditions. What?? Is there a segment in the US that's perfectly healthy from the cradle to the grave?? Tom, heaven forbid you get in a bind needing insurance, a physicians care, and can't get help because of a previous condition.