Ask Me Help Desk - Do I need a Shallow well pump ?

Do I need a Shallow well pump ?

:cool:

Hi,

I just bought a cabin that has a spring on the property up above the house at an entry elevation that is maybe 7-10' above the roof line.
My spring flows into a shallow holding well then flows through 1" sprinkler line (Black plastic hose)
The water must flow constantly because its in VT and the line runs above ground and needs to keep flowing so it does'nt freeze.
The supply line from well to house is 1" then I reduced to 1/2 in pex runs in and tees off and runs out slowly as I have that valved off so I can adjust flow.

I plumbed everything in the cabin with 1/2 " pex and it is set up to drain and winterize easily as I am only the on weekend and dont keep it constantly heated.
My water volume and presure were good until I plumbed w/the 1/2" pex I thought my pressure would be good enough for my new infinion tankless water heater but I needed to have 2 faucets on in order to have the burner ignite. This happened as a result of low pressure and low volume.

My question... What can I do to increase pressure w/o using a shallow well pump tank set up?
Can I increase the size of the supply line coming down the hill? Will that do it ?
I don't want to have to go through the task of having to winterize a pump and tank every time . Besides I haven't found one that has a drain on the bottom of the tank.

Your thoughts and comments are appreciated?

Chris

If you are talking good plumber ID, the 1'' hose will flow 32 times as much as the 1/2'' for the same length of pipe and pressure drop. Going to 3/4'' PEX would do more to increase flow than a larger supply line. However, most of the restriction may be in the fixtures themselves.

You could turn the temperature down on the water heater so it produces a larger volume of cooler water.

One more thought, and don't do this if Tom says it won't work. I think all the water is forced out of a pressure tank if the system is allowed to drain.

Another thing. Put the tank and pump in the well where there is constantly flowing water to keep it above freezing.

Putting the pump outside probably not a good idea in Vermont it can get down well below zero.
Besides I am trying to see if I can eliminate the pump all together because my well is up the hill from house but only just above roof line.
Is that enough rise to giv eme pressure with a 1" supply from well to house ?

So should I go from 1" supply to 3/4" pex and bring that to heater and run the hot lines in 3/4

Does more volume give more pressure ?
Is it the height of the well above house?
Or is it the weight of water in well that creates the pressure?
Just trying to figure out what gives me the pressure and how to keep it

Thanks

The drop between the top of the water in the well to the fixture gives the pressure. When no water is flowing, the pressure is going to be the same anywhere the same distance below the top of the water. As the water starts to flow, the pressure will drop at the far end of the pipe. How much depends greatly on the pipe ID and flow rate. One you neck down into the 1/2'', the pressure at the bottom of the 1'' isn't going to drop much at the flow you will get. You could compare the time it takes to fill a quart jar straight out of a line and out of the fixture. If it takes almost as long straight out of the line, switching to 3/4'' might help.

Hi Chris. Listen to Labman,

Does more volume give more pressure ? (No)
Is it the height of the well above house? (Yes)
Or is it the weight of water in well that creates the pressure? (Nope!)
Most of your fixtures choke you down to 1/4 or, in the case of cartridges, 1/8th of a inch. While increasing the pipe size will give you more volume it can not increase pressure. The pressure's determined by the height of the source. This is called "static pressure" and can be calculated easily by multiplying the drop in feet to the lowest point by 0.43 You can't get something for nothing. The only way to increase the pressure would be to increase the height or adding a pump and pressure tank. Good luck, Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedball1

Hi Chris. Listen to Labman,

Does more volume give more pressure ? (No)
Is it the height of the well above house? (Yes)
Or is it the weight of water in well that creates the pressure? (Nope!)
Most of your fixtures choke you down to 1/4 or, in the case of cartridges, 1/8th of a inch. While increasing the pipe size will give you more volume it can not increase pressure. The pressure's determined by the height of the source. This is called "static pressure" and can be calculated easily by multiplying the drop in feet to the lowest point by 0.43 You can't get something for nothing. The only way to increase the pressure would be to increase the height or adding a pump and pressure tank. good luck, Tom

So if my drop is only drop is only about 10 feet then I will only get 4.3 psi ?
If that's the case then a pump is what I will need then.
Tankless heater calls for that as a minimum pressure.

Do you know what pump tank set up I can get that doesn't cost a lot that will have a drain and fully empty for winterization ?
I see a lot of shallow well pumps that the tank is mounted horizontaly and Im not sure if they will drain.

Thanks

Chris

Do you know what pump tank set up I can get that doesn't cost a lot that will have a drain and fully empty for winterization ?
I see a lot of shallow well pumps that the tank is mounted horizontaly and Im not sure if they will drain.

Chris, Just enter Pressure Booster Pumps in your search engine for a selection. Regards, tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedball1

Do you know what pump tank set up I can get that doesnt cost a lot that will have a drain and fully empty for winterization ?
I see alot of shallow well pumps that the tank is mounted horizontaly and Im not sure if they will drain.

Chris, Just enter Pressure Booster Pumps in your search engine for a selection. regards, tom

Thanks Tom!!

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Note: Five year old post.