I'm in the process of finishing my full bathroom in my basement. The house was just built last year by khovnavian. I want to install a 5ft tub but the pipe is off. What are my options? And is there anyway I can have the builders fix this?

And is the rough in for my toilet fine? It's 10" from the wall to the outer of the pipe and 12" from the wall to the center of the pipe?

And the area for the tub is 60"x32"

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I want to install a 5ft tub but the pipe is off.

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Inless you have a open area around the pipe you were left with a shower rough in. You will have to take up the cement, move the trap and raiser 15 1/2" off a unfinished wall or 15" off a finished wall and 1 1/2" off the front wall. you will also have to leave a 12 X 12" square tub dap-out to connect the tub waste to the trap raiser since it connects beneath the floor line.
Your toilet rough-in is fine. Good luck, Tom
Mark posted right behind me. Use his side outlet tub waste and overflow assembly and save yourself the hassle of moving the trap and raiser. Nice save, Mark!

HI anzrocka:

Toilet at 12" to center off the BACK wall is fine... A regular 12" rough toilet will work here!

Toilet also needs to be a minimum of 15" to center from the SIDE wall. Looks close to that... or less! In the picture.

The tub on the other hand...is an issue for you...as you suspected!!

The contractor should have left a DAP OUT box in the ground for you... that is, he should have left a 10"x10" boxout in the ground so you could get to the pipes and adjust them as needed to hook the tub up.

At this point you will definitely need to break out some of the concrete to be able to set the tub and the tub waste and overflow assembly.

A regular tub roughs in somewhere around 14.5" to 16" to center from the side wall... where you have 21.5" needs to be about 15"ish... but will , of course, depend on the tub chosen.

The tub shoe of the tub waste and overflow assembly needs to set about 1" or so into the concrete so figure on coming out about 10-12" off the back wall for the shoe to set into the floor properly.

One thing that may save you some time here... and will reduce, but not eliminate the chip/chop work needed is an SIDE OUTLET tub waste and overflow assembly... see picture below. I actually think this may work perfect for you!! It is not available at home supply stores.. only online or at a PLUMBING SUPPLY house... ;)

Here, will still need to break out the concrete, but won't have to re-do the plumbing as you can offset this tub waste and overflow assembly into the vertical pipe (usually a straight shot down.. see other picture of tub waste to compare these).

The transition from either of the tub waste and overflow assemblies to the pvc pipe is made via an 1.5" pvc desanco fitting (see last picture).

Do you access behind the tub to work on this drain once the tub is installed...??

In terms of khovnavian... did they pull permits for this job.. If they did never hurts to give them a call and tell them that they should have known better than to just concrete over the entire tub waste..? See what they say. Worst case, call the local building/plumbing inspector and see what they think you should do.

Please answer all my questions above so can give best advise after this.

Let us know if need anything else.

MARK

Thanks for your reply speedball.

Mark, the toilet does have enough room (over 15" to the nearest wall on either side). So I'm fine there. Just wanted to double check.

I apologize for the crappy picture. I took it with my cell phone (it was close to midnight when I took it) and the site only limits how big a picture can be.

Anyway, to answer your questions, the builder did not leave any boxout. It is just straight smooth concrete.

As for the tub I plan on putting in, it is a Sterling 3-wall alcove white tub from Lowe's. I have not bought it yet but that's what I plan on buying.

I also plan on cutting out that wall as seen in the picture so I can have access to the plumbing for the future. There's a mechanical room behind that wall where my heater and HVAC stuff are so I'm thinking it would work out fine for giving me access.

I tried to look up permits for the plumbing last night online but could not find any on the county website (Montgomery County, Maryland). There were permits I'm not 100% sure but I think my water/sewer utility company (WSSC) gives out the permits. Maybe they'll have one on file if one was issued. Will try and find out.

And one last thing, if the builders do not or will not put a boxout on the ground and/or relocate the piping, is it possible to put in a subfloor that will raise the ground clearance up to avoid having to break the concrete and use the supply fittings like you suggested?

Mark, I did find a permit. It was issued by WSSC as I found out from the county. It can be viewed online. I sent you an email with the link and my address so you can look it up.

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if the builders do not or will not put a boxout on the ground and/or relocate the piping, is it possible to put in a subfloor that will raise the ground clearance up to avoid having to break the concrete and use the supply fittings like you suggested?

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Mark's out working so I'll answer your question. Yes it's possible to platform the tub as you suggested but it would be a much neater job to simply hammer out a tub hole amd use Marks offset tub waste and overflow to connect the tub. Because of the position of the trap raiser in relation to the front plate this was obviously meant for a tub. There were two mistakes the builder didn't pick up on, 1) the dap-our was never boxed and filled with dirt so the cement guys poured it over **and** 2) the plumber missed his mark when he set the trap. These mistakes should be corrected by the builder at no cost to you as it sound as though you may still be under warranty. Good luck, Tom

Thanks for your reply. Yes, the house is still under warranty though it is limited. I have an appointment set up with the plumber that the builder uses. I will ask them what will they do about it but if I'm out of luck and they won't fix it, guess I'll be hammering concrete out myself.

Let us know what they decide Anzrocka!

Hope goes well for you!

Mark

Well the builder came by today (with two guys) and looked at the rough in. They measured it and said that the vent for the tub is off but that a plumber (one that I hire) typically breaks up the concrete and puts in a trap and would move it to the place it needs to be. So from what I'm understanding is that they have not put in a trap and that is it just a pipe that comes up from the ground which they put about 22 inches away from the wall and that it sounds like it's my responsibility to put it in the location where it needs to be.

Another problem they found was that the toilet is 12 inches from the back wall is good but that it is not 15 inches or more from the side wall (you were right Mark!). They were discussing about putting in an offset flange which will still not put at the required 15 inches.

So any inputs?

-Bill

Here is a rough drawing of my bathroom.

The blue lines are the dimensions that the builder measured. Now if I put in a 36" vanity then the toilet would not be 15" or more. But I plan on putting in a small 24" vanity so I'm not concerned about it. I'm just concerned about the vent for the tub.

The vent for the sink is behind the wall and towards the tub area as I put in the picture. I don't think I'll have a problem running the pipping but it is about 4-5 feet from where the sink will be.

Hi Bill:

There is nothing TYPICAL about breaking out the concrete for a tub rough in. In 26 years, I've never had to break out concrete around a previously roughed in tub. Call and ask your local inspector what he thinks about someone telling you that TYPICALLY plumbers break out concrete around tub pipes... see what he says!

You also said there was no trap on the tub pipe... you sure about that? If so, how did you/they determine no trap is present? Please let me know here.

I'm still wondering here.. why box did not get built (ALWAYS DONE WHEN ROUGHED IN) and why the toilet pipe did not get a cover around it to keep concrete off that pipe (you are OK if using inside flange... but if using OFFSET flange, concrete will need to be removed around that pipe... WITHOUT BREAKING pipe)... and I got to ask... why? Never mind that the toilet is less than 15" from the wall....*OUCH*!!

Seems to me the plumber and the General contractor messed this up and are trying to pass the buck. I would call the local inspector and ask him to pop out and give you his advice...just tell him that you have a job here that passed inspection but is all messed up....that should get him running over there...;)

The inspector has the power to insist that the plumber fix this....or he can make it harder on the guy in the future.

Anyway...in terms of the drain for the sink...4-5 feet is fine...just need to tap into the vertical pipe with a 2" x 1.5" sanitary TY fitting and pick up the sink that way.

Let me know what you think and remember as you get these things resolved, we're glad to help with the tub/shower unit, etc.

Thanks... MARK

Mark,
Here is typical construction by a developer around here
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Property across my driveway cleared and 4 houses built. Price range one million. After the first one was built and before it was closed in, my neighbor (a plumber) and I walked through.

All the lolly columns in the wrong place and basement floor cut out to move. First floor supporting beam going east to west and with three north/south beams tied in. One end of the east/west beam on basement wall. The other end on a 4x4 that will be berried in the basement stairwell wall. Should the home owner at a later time decide to open up his basement stairs by changing that wall to say a half wall and cuts that 4x4, the entire first floor will collapse.

Now for the good part. There is of course, the rough in for a basement bath. Guess where the electric panel is.
If the homeowner ever puts that bath in he's going to have to stand in his bathtub to check his circuit breakers.

Harold... that's a riot!

Killing me with these stories... loved that one on the new minister preaching to everyone. Any chance you can paste it here so all can giggle abit! I did!

Thanks... MARK

Hey Mark, sorry for not replying. I've been in FL on vacation but now I'm back. :-(

Anyway, I just left a message with WSSC for an inspector to call me about the rough in.

And second, I'm not sure about a trap not being there. I personally have not checked. This is what the builder guy told me.

Well the inspector called me back and stated that when the plumbing was installed that the plumber does not know exactly where the walls and other things go so rough-in piping aren't exactly in the proper place. Sounds like I'll be breaking the concrete. Any ideas?

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the inspector called me back and stated that when the plumbing was installed that the plumber does not know exactly where the walls and other things go so rough-in piping aren't exactly in the proper place. Sounds like I'll be breaking the concrete.

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Whoa! your plumber did a rough in without first establishing the walls? And your inspector passed the job? You should have stayed in Florida and built down here.
Hey! We rough in off a set of plans that tell us where everything goes, even a rough for a "add-on" bathroom group. And our inspectors are plumbers that know a tub roughs in 15 1/2"off the back wall and 1 1/2" off the front plate with a tub dap-out, trap and raiser installed for future use. And here I thought Mickey Mouse and his crew lived over in Orlando. Looks like they moved up to your state and went into the plumbing business. Forcing you to repair the plumbers mistakes is outrageous. Good luck, Tom

Before they poured slab, they should have install "Tuff-Box" - a two part, shell-like, 12"x12" plastic box that covers stub out for future trap. When ready to install tub, Tuff-Box is cut open, upper portion removed, and trap installed. There is always some play to adjust trap to fit tub drain. If they didn't put it in, than you have to do some serious concrete breaking.

We rough our tubs at 14 1/2" from wall and 1/4" from rough framing.