Hello:

Now that Obama is going to lead a sweep, Universal Health Care will be enacted. I agree with tom, however. It shouldn't be. What we should do instead, is eliminate the insurance industry from the health care industry altogether. Frankly, I don't think they should be in the middle between a doctor and his patient.

If we did that, then prices would drop like a rock. Seriously, LIKE A ROCK. People COULD then afford to pay for their own health care, and it would be cheap for government to fill in the voids.

THAT would be a libertarian solution. So, we're not going to do that.

Universal Health Care is simply a response to an unregulated insurance industry gone wild, that decided that IT should make the bulk of the money in health care. I think they should go back to insuring cars.

excon

McCain's plan goes a long way towards reforming the industry .He would open it up to competition . But you are correct that the ideal would be eliminating the middle man. As I understand it Doctors used to make house calls before liability concerns became a primary factor in how they run their business.

I'm not much on the Universal Health care bandwagon either. From what I read in articles and judging by the primary debates, Hillary's plan falls in line with Universal Health care one hundred percent and Obama's about ninety-percent the same. My guess is that Obama will offer her the opportunity as senior advisor on health reform, regardless of any other cabinet offers (or even if he offers her VP or not). So one way or the other it's coming down the pike.

Interesting comparison with the cars. When I insure my car it does not include the cost of changing the cars oil,spark plugs ,preventive or any diagnostic work . I instead am insured for parts and services that I would have difficulty paying for out of pocket under very limited conditions (comprehensive for most repairs and liability for accidents.) Still it is a huge expense. Just imagine if I we had to go through insurance scheduled payments for most routine work done !

Even the part of the auto insurance dealing with the most important aspect ;the liability is wrought with corruption. Everyone knows of ancedotal examples where the system is being played . My own personal example (a minor fender bender )resulted in a settlement for the plaintiff against my wife of $28,000 in a very frivolous lawsuit . I wanted to go the distance because it was clearly a case of fraud. But the lawyers for the insurers sat down to a couple of brewskies and hammered out a deal that would essentially cost their respective insurance companies nada.Well almost... The increase in our insurance rates would've eventually made it at least a break even for the insurer if I had not dropped them in disgust after their cowardly handling of the case.

I do not want the government involved in my health care decisions.

I have yet to see a single program, managed by our government, that could come close to convincing me that they would do a wonderful job of managing my health care.

I don't what the government picking my doctor.

I don't want the government deciding if my illness is cost effective to treat, or would cost too much, and I would be determined to be "expendable" and left to die, and that money would be better spent on someone who is not quite so sick.

I don't want the government telling me that although my illness is covered, and serious, but the waiting line for the doctor is months away, sorry.

I agree, the current insurance and HMO plans leave much to be desired, and reforms are definitely needed, but government control and management, NO WAY!

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Originally Posted by progunr

I do not want the government involved in my health care decisions.

I have yet to see a single program, managed by our government, that could come close to convincing me that they would do a wonderful job of managing my health care.

I don't what the government picking my doctor.

I don't want the government deciding if my illness is cost effective to treat, or would cost too much, and I would be determined to be "expendable" and left to die, and that money would be better spent on someone who is not quite so sick.

I don't want the government telling me that although my illness is covered, and serious, but the waiting line for the doctor is months away, sorry.

I agree, the current insurance and HMO plans leave much to be desired, and reforms are definitely needed, but government control and management, NO WAY!!

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I am in complete agreement! I think that some form of co-op insurance would be a far better way to go. It works in several areas of insurance already, as property insurance, and provides electric service for less in some areas. Co-ops have been used by farmers for generations to provide services that no one farmer could afford; cotton gins & grain elevators. While I'm touching this subject, the only way the American worker will get a fair slice of the pie is for the employees to own the business. It can be done.

Hello you guys:

I don't know. You don't want the government interfering with your health care but you sure don't mind the insurance company sitting in the exam room with you deciding what's best for you. Why is that?

I'd rather have NOBODY in the room with me, but me and my doctor. The role of government would be to pay the bills and keep their mouths shut. What's wrong with that?
That means there's only TWO of you making the decisions - YOU and your doctor. What's wrong with that?

Will it cost you more money out of your pocket for a universal health care system like that?? No. It'll put money INTO your pockets. Can you imagine how much bounty there is to go around when you take the insurance companies OUT of the equation?? It's billions - really, BILLIONS upon even more billions.

excon

Hello again:

As has been discussed here many times, the poor people of this country are NOT going without health care. The problem is the health care they seek is the most expensive of all at the emergency room. Of course, w pay for it.

I venture to guess that the amount we are NOW spending on their care would be no more than covering them universally. The added benefit would be better health for everybody.

How much better could our industry compete with the world if they weren't burdened down with unbelievably high health care costs? Why is GM in the health care business anyway?

Nope, throw the bums out - that would be the insurance company bums.

excon

Problem 1: If the government has their fingers in healthcare any more, we will end up looking like Canada. I agree that healcare costs are horrible, but what we need to focus on first is reforming the programs already instated. The competition we have in a free market health insurance indistry is advanced medical research, independent labs, and reliability in doctors. Since we have no big regulation between the government and our doctor, our doctor must compete with others to keep business. If the government has more power in healthcare, we will have increased taxes, and decreased medical care. If you don't believe me, look up how long it takes to get tested for cancer in Canada, why is everybody coming from there for medical treatment? Or how many times has the Canadian Healcare fund bankrupted? Try EVERY YEAR! Eather way you are going to pay,. you will pay you dues to a health insurance provider; who will over look your treatment options, or the government who will kill you with taxes and regulations before you will have the opportunity to see the doc. I will expound on other problems with universal health care later, right now I have a big greasy fried porkchop waiting to be eaten.

Hello L:

Hmmmm, why am I not surprised that somebody who is about to eat a big greasy fried porkchop doesn't know much about the health care industry?

excon

Ex, what guarantees that the insurance companies will be cut out of any universal health care system? I would bet against it.

Hello Gal:

I'm not outlining any program that I'm aware is being contemplated by anybody. I'm just pointing out possibilities.

The insurance companies are IN YOUR POCKETS. NO administration will EVER throw them out. If you want to know who the "special interests" are, it's the insurance companies...

That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to throw 'em out. And, that doesn't mean I'm going to be a patsy for them.

excon

If the plan is to get rid of the insurance companies, and replace them with our federal government, I'll keep the insurance companies, Thank You!

There so many ramifications and variables going into any government styled Universal Healthcare system. Just a quick thought! In Las Vegas, many moons ago, politicians led the government on their moral high-horse against us. That changed just as soon as corporate America stuck their nose in and the government then saw the reality of profits to be made. If the insurance companies, hospitals, and doctors are regulated by our government to help stop the gouging, than I'm all for it. My opinion is that having the government look into the rising costs of oil and play health care police, is a bit like sending the fox to investigate the hen house. I'm very cautiously optimistic.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

Now that Obama is going to lead a sweep, Universal Health Care will be enacted. I agree with tom, however. It shouldn't be. What we should do instead, is eliminate the insurance industry from the health care industry altogether. Frankly, I don't think they should be in the middle between a doctor and his patient.

If we did that, then prices would drop like a rock. Seriously, LIKE A ROCK. People COULD then afford to pay for their own health care, and it would be cheap for government to fill in the voids.

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Lowering the Cost of Health Care by Ron Paul

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The lesson is clear: when government and other third parties get involved, health care costs spiral. The answer is not a system of outright socialized medicine, but rather a system that encourages everyone – doctors, hospitals, patients, and drug companies – to keep costs down. As long as “somebody else” is paying the bill, the bill will be too high

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Originally Posted by excon

THAT would be a libertarian solution. So, we're not going to do that.

Universal Health Care is simply a response to an unregulated insurance industry gone wild, that decided that IT should make the bulk of the money in health care. I think they should go back to insuring cars.

Excon

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A libertarian solution would be that there should be NO third party payors, whether private insurance or the government.

Each individual should pay for there own healthcare.

What I earn should not be taken away from me [ tax ] to provide care for some one else.

The irony of your OP is that Bush, with his HSA, comes closest to the libertarian solution.

U.S. Treasury - HSA Frequently Asked Questions





To some extent there already is "universal healthcare" its called medicare, medicaid, VA.