I have been rehabilitating my dog by researching dog psychology and man, it's like night and day.. I think I've established the roll as the leader as he is showing me respect ei. Waits for me to go down the stairs first, go in to the house first, in to the yard first, walks next or behind on his leash.. he is just amazing. However, there is something in my research I am lacking.. I don't know how to discipline him! NO works for A lot of things, but he can't control himself around other dogs and cats~~ even if I'm letting him out for a pee, if he sees another dog he just takes off.. so I started biking with him and when he takes off, on the trail or in the park, I just peddle faster (in the wild, if a dog steps out of line, the pack leaves them behind) once he realizes I'm taking off, he comes running! Once he gets to me, I don't want to scold him because I feel like I'm punishing him for coming back to me. I'm completely insulted because I feel he is not respecting my authority as the pack leader. He doesn't chase bears or moose or horses but I'm worried if he keeps chasing other dogs and cat, he will develop a prey drive.
I KNOW its possible, I live in a small northern BC town and leashes are unknown to dog owners out here..

It sounds like you are doing your best, as you see it, but there is an old saying 'you don't do your dog any favours by NOT training him'. If you think about this saying you realize what it means. It isn't just words. Leashs may be unknown where you live, but I think your dog would benefit from learning how to be on the end of one. It may teach him a lesson. And by the way, if your dog comes back to you after running off, then you reward him for coming back. He may get the idea. Take treats with you next time, or just gi ve him a lot of praise.

If your dog is chasing cats and other dogs, you don't have to worry about him developing a prey drive. He already has one. Your concern is how to manage that drive. And that means, most likely, keeping him on leash. Keep in mind that dogs do "respect their pack leaders", but that doesn't make them saints or perfect. A lower level dog will, for example, attempt to mate with the alpha female if the alpha male isn't around to prevent it. If your dog stays off-leash and chases other dogs and cats, he doesn't know that he is doing something you don't want him to. It's instinct for him to do that. So you need to figure out how to control that behavior before it happens, not after.

THanks, that's the answer I'm trying to get, my dog is a perfect angel on a leash.. the question I'm asking is how to get him to wait for permission before going to visit other animals... not all dogs chase cats and dogs... this dog has come a long way, he used to be a mess, maybe I am just expecting too much too soon? I don't work with treats either, never will.. ;)

Even dog trainers work with treats. Why don't you want to use treats? Do you use praise, then to reward him?

The most well-known dog trainers in the world do not use treats... I try to treat me dog as close as I can get to how it would be treated in a pack of dogs, this creates a balanced pet. What if one gave their children treats all the time, in response for good behavior? No good would come out of that. Dogs don't need treats, it's just something that was introduced to them by humans. Also, I feel like it's a blackmail and the dog should want to please you as a pack leader out of respect, not because of a snausage ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spinphoto

The most well-known dog trainers in the world do not use treats... I try to treat me dog as close as I can get to how it would be treated in a pack of dogs, this creates a balanced pet. What if one gave their children treats all the time, in response for good behavior? no good would come out of that. Dogs don't need treats, it's just something that was introduced to them by humans. Also, I feel like it's a blackmail and the dog should want to please you as a pack leader out of respect, not because of a snausage ;)

---

Your intentions are good, but you are going to the extremes. You can't treat your dog like it would be treated in a pack, because you are not a dog and you are asking the dog to do things that it would never do in a pack. For example, if you see a strange dog in your territory, you do not act like a pack leader by either chasing the other dog off or accepting it into your pack.

And every trainer will tell you that dogs respond better to positive reinforcement than to negative. It's basic psychology... you act either to avoid a negative reinforcer, or to get a positive one. The negative reinforcer is anything that causes a behavior to go down... yelling can be one, but so is ignoring a behavior. Positive reinforcers cause a behavior to increase, and can be anything... treats, getting to play fetch, going for a walk, and yes, yelling can even be a positive reinforcer, if it's the only way of the dog getting attention.

By refusing to use positive reinforcers, you are setting yourself up for a much harder time than you would otherwise. Yes, you may eventually get a well-trained dog, but it is going to take you longer than it would otherwise. And you are depriving you and your dog of some of the enjoyable aspects of dog ownership.

Excellent froggy... spin you don't give them the treat every time after they get what you are asking for. Sometimes you do sometimes you don't. But I really don't think this is something for certain that can be trained out of him.

I don't believe in every instance a behavior can be trained out, esp when You have not had the dog since the critical puppyhood stage.

If I were you I would use the treats and try to train him that every time he see another animal that it is treat time , ball time or whatever he finds to be most enjoyable. If you interrupt that thought process of see animal... take off chasing, to see animal get treat or play ball he might learn to ignore them... maybe not but it's worth a try. If I did treats I would make sure it was the juicest smellest treats I could find.

This is totally off topic, can some one help me with my original question? I get my methods from Cesar Milan, and if you read any of his books, it would be a real eye opener. (Cesar's Way) Obviously, I am not a dog! The dog doesn't care what I am as long as I am the pack leader... if a dog runs towards us aggressively, I will stomp on the ground and scare it away and it works! It's a heck of a lot better than my dog choking himself to death and dragging me around, trying to get at it to scare it away. He leaves it up to me, because he trust me, because I am the pack leader.. dogs need this or else they are confused and this is were behavior problems arise. And I CAN treat my dog as if he is in a pack this is what they thrive on this is what is natural to them! There is nothing wrong with that.

And you shouldn't jump to conclusions, I don't refuse positive reinforcement.. I use it when it's needed, when the dog is calm at the end of the day or as a reward and he LOVES it! I respect your methods but don't diss mine because I choose not to use treats, this is more common than you think. I don't ouja-boo all day to my dog, that is unhealthy!

My dog and I have a beautiful, balanced relationship.. just that annoying little glitch where he wants to play with every dog he meets which is fine, but only if I give him permission..

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2380/...f6effd01_o.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/...cb0d7003_o.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3238/...a6bf2363_o.jpg

See? Lol. OK, now maybe I just want to show every one how handsome he is... ;p

Thanks bush for the advice, that is what I'm trying to do, he loves bike riding so that is quite the distraction, he's fine if dogs are in their yards or in the distance, it just when they're up ahead on the trail or in the park.. If it's on leash, I start jogging a big because he loves to run (border collie/lab).. I think I'm just expecting too much to soon because he has come a loooOOoonng way,

Spin he is a very handsome guy... love his paws. I hope he is neutered if not this may make a huge difference.

Yes, he is, he's a good boy.. he won't even leave the back yard if the gate is open, unless there is a dog he wants to play with, that is what I'm trying to control :S