Hello everyone, I may as well get to it. Before I start, I've never broken the law in my life, and I am being charged with mischief under 5000. Me and my friend were snowmobiling/snowboarding on our local mountain, nearly all day, there were many other people there at the time doing as we were. Most of the people had left or were beginning to leave when a helicopter arrived at the scene. It was flying very low and we were wondering why. As the day went on we packed up our stuff and began driving down the mountain, and as we arrived into town we were pulled over, questions, and arrested. Now as the officer tells us, the radio tower on the mountain had been vandalised, the door had been kicked down and some stuff had been rummeged through and we were charged with mischief under 5000. The arresting officer didn't seem interested in anything we had to say, and was quite ignorant in his arrest. Now I am faced with a court appearance and must miss several days of work in turn. What should I do? As I said I have no criminal record, and am quite proud of it. I am planning on joining the armed forces, and do not wish to have a record on my back. Thank you in advance.

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Originally Posted by Moonpiecharlie

Hello everyone, I may as well get to it. Before i start, I've never broken the law in my life, and I am being charged with mischief under 5000. Me and my friend were snowmobiling/snowboarding on our local mountain, nearly all day, there were many other people there at the time doing as we were. Most of the people had left or were begining to leave when a helicopter arrived at the scene. It was flying very low and we were wondering why. As the day went on we packed up our stuff and began driving down the mountain, and as we arrived into town we were pulled over, questions, and arrested. Now as the officer tells us, the radio tower on the mountain had been vandalised, the door had been kicked down and some stuff had been rummeged through and we were charged with mischief under 5000. The arresting officer didnt seem interested in anything we had to say, and was quite ignorant in his arrest. Now I am faced with a court appearance and must miss several days of work in turn. What should I do? As I said I have no criminal record, and am quite proud of it. I am planning on joining the armed forces, and do not wish to have a record on my back. Thank you in advance.

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Question 1 is did you or your friends do the damage? Why, particularly if a helicopter was viewing some of what happened, are they blaming you and your friends?

Answer 1 is to get an Attorney, particularly if you don't want any record of this. Some of what will happen depends (in Canada) on your age, whether you are eligible for the diversion program, whether you have that kind of time.

I did not, it is not in my character to do so. Yes they are blaming us. As for the helicopter It viewed us quite far from the scene of the crime, I would say 2000 vertical feet, we were never seen at the scene of the crime. I am 21 years of age, therefore not elligable for diversion. The fact remains I am innocent, but they do not see it that way. I try to look at it from there point of view, 2 young adults on a mountain, nowhere near society... What would you assume?

They still have to prove it correct? Did the officer say that he saw you vandalize in particular?

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Originally Posted by Moonpiecharlie

I did not, it is not in my character to do so. Yes they are blaming us. As for the helicopter It viewed us quite far from the scene of the crime, I would say 2000 vertical feet, we were never seen at the scene of the crime. I am 21 years of age, therefore not elligable for diversion. The fact remains I am innocent, but they do not see it that way. I try to look at it from there point of view, 2 young adults on a mountain, nowhere near society... What would you assume?

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I wouldn't assume anything - Sorry, I didn't realize you are 21. You didn't give an age and I was just suggesting options, not being a good mind reader.

Hire an Attorney and see what the witnesses say, what the prosecutor has to offer.

As I said, we were never seen at the scene of the crime, we were never at the scene of the crime. And yes they do have to prove it, I am not VERY familiar with procedure, but I've been told the about something called liklihood of guilt, meaning if it looks like a dog, smells like a dog, it probably is a dog... I'm hoping that isn't a factor.

Sorry I left that out initially. Thank you for not assuming, I only wish everyone wouldn't assume such things. There were no witnesses, as much as we are witnesses.

It's going to cost you work time, and I'm certainly not a lawyer, but it seems you can fight this in court. There is no evidence of you actually committing a crime.

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Originally Posted by Moonpiecharlie

As I said, we were never seen at the scene of the crime, we were never at the scene of the crime. And yes they do have to prove it, I am not VERY familiar with procedure, but ive been told the about something called liklihood of guilt, meaning if it looks like a dog, smells like a dog, it probably is a dog... I'm hoping that isnt a factor.

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Laughing - isn't it walk like a duck, quacks like a duck? Like your spin on the saying.

Anyway - "they" have to prove you are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt; you don't have to prove yourself innocent.

You have several defense issues here one of them being once the helicopter spotted you was that the extent of their surveillance? Did they focus on you? Did they look for other activity on the mountain? Obviously you could have been snowboarding on one side while the bad guys were vandalizing and running down the other.

Footprints? Fingerprints? What evidence - other than a helicopter has video (perhaps) of you snowboarding - ? Was anything missing? Did you have it? Any video of you kicking in doors?

I'm an investigator on the US side and would LOVE to get my teeth in this one -

I would get an Attorney (if you want no record and are trying to get into the Military) OR would wait and see what happens during your first Court appearance and then decide.

(Let me see - if it smells like a dog maybe it's a cat that crossed paths with a dog... )

Footprints? Fingerprints? What evidence - other than a helicopter has video (perhaps) of you snowboarding - ? Was anything missing? Did you have it? Any video of you kicking in doors?

Well if we had good police officers where I'm from perhaps they would have taken some photos of my boots, but no they took no photos nor did they look. Also, no, nothing was missing ( so they tell me ) and no video of kicking doors ( never happened ).


(Let me see - if it smells like a dog maybe it's a cat that crossed paths with a dog... )

Hahaha entirely possible, maybe I will change that a little.. how's "if it barks like a dog, pants like a dog, looks like a dog, it may be your friends mother"... well that's a little harsh but I think its good.


Just curious, what do you think the punishment for a first time offender would be for this? I have read that it is considered a misdemeaner and is rarely punished unless matched with another crime or is repeatedly offended

Thank you for your interest

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Originally Posted by Moonpiecharlie

Just curious, what do you think the punishment for a first time offender would be for this?? I have read that it is considered a misdemeaner and is rarely punished unless matched with another crime or is repeatedly offended

thank you for your interest

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If I had to venture a guess (and keep in mind I'm not in Canada but I have also walked and worked through some somewhat similar situations which have been posted) I would say due to the absence of proof, first time offender, amount of damage (which they also have to prove) - perhaps a fine. However, if it was Government property that was damaged and someone takes a burn - maybe probation of some sort.

I just don't think if you have put all your cards on the table here there is proof - at least not enough proof to convict if that's where anyone thinks this is going.

Of course it's always a coin toss until the Judge mutters the magic words.

Thank you for your input it has been very useful

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Originally Posted by Moonpiecharlie

thank you for your input it has been very useful

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Will you come back and let us know what happens?

Sure

You can fight it in court with a lawyer. Because you two were the only ones on the mountains the police do have probable cause and did have the right to arrest you on charges of it. It sounds to me that the only evidence they have is that you were there on the mountain by yourselves. Just remember all the evidence has to be given to the judge for him to approve it to go on to trial. If he believe there is not enough evidence or the state attorney believe there is not enough charge should be dropped. Just get an actual lawyer to defend you and have him/her point that out...

You won't be charged I had to go to court for mischief under 5000 because I broke a window and luckily I didn't have any punishment but it isn't that bad as breaking down a door and taking stuff