Ask Me Help Desk - Friend or Foe

Okay, so a while ago I had a falling out with my group of friends. Two of them where close friends I've had for the last five to six years and losing them was really hard. I'm sure I could get over it in time, but it's really hard when we've been planing a trip to Europe for a month in July and I'm currently living with one of them until April 2009.

My roommate talks to the other on the phone all the time about things they plan to do together and stuff that's going on in the group. It's making it really difficult to let it go.
My roommate is trying to be nice with me, but I know her opinion of me is... well, not great.

I don't have the option to move out early and I really have no one else to rely on, seeing as how my family is busy with their own issues and money is tight. I can't back out of the trip since all the tickets are already paid for and it's something we've been planning for since last summer. I'm sure I'm going to be ignored for the whole trip, but I really want this to be a great trip.

In all, what should I do? I'm getting frustrated and depressed.

Sorry, there's no magic here. You will have to choose the hard thing you will endure next:

1) Reconcile with your friends, even if it means swallowing your pride and taking the blame for it all (you didn't explain the fallout, so I am assuming this is a mild possibility)

2) Ignore the discomfort and focus on other things

3) Move out. Telling us "you really can't move out early" is dishonest. I read that as "moving out early isn't in the cards right now so I'm looking for a less drastic solution."

Trust me, if you forced to move, you'd move. But it could be your own idea, too.

Apparently you have decided that not going on the trip is one of the options. If you are determined to go then it is obviously up to you to also determine what the real quality of the trip is going to be for you. Right now it sounds as if you rely on this "group to play a significant role in determining the quality of your life. Ever hear of imagining your personal power to come from outside sources? Not real.
Why did you have a falling out with this group? Examine this carefully and be honest with yourself. If you are really have more trouble with this then you should read "The New Earth" and awaken to who you really are. Perhaps you do not really belong to this group. Rupert

The fall out in short.

I was dating one of the guys in the group a few years ago, but because I felt the relationship wasn't going anywhere I broke it off a few months into it and before anything got too serious. Later another girl in the group began to date him. It was a little hard to cope with at first, but I ended up having to deal with it for the sake of my friends. Besides, they were really great together and I was surprised they hadn't hooked up sooner.

A year into their relationship there were moments that he would say that he wished he was still with me, that he missed me, etc, etc. And, even though it was wrong, I liked the idea of us getting back together. It was all unrealistic, and it made me feel really guilty that we were doing this behind his girlfriend's back. His current girlfriend heard about this and was feeling a little upset and betrayed. This was a mistake on my part and I took responsibility for it. It took a while, but we found a way to resolve the issue and become close friends again. This was about a year ago.

A few months ago I heard he had started saying some of the same charming stuff to my best friend (one of the two girls I mentioned) and, from what little I had heard, they were messing around. I knew he was a player and it upset me that he would turn around and do this to his girlfriend again after we had just resolved the same problem not to long ago. On top of that he was doing it with my best friend all the while saying he was wanting to marry his girlfriend.

I was a little shocked and disturbed that he would be doing this and lie to his girlfriend again, even after all had finally been resolved. After much debate with myself I told his girlfriend what was going on. I knew that in the long run this would potentially destroy the relationship with my best friend, but I couldn't sit back and watch my other friend get hurt again. It was hard enough the first time.

The girlfriend ended up confessing that she knew what was going on between him and my best friend and that's when everything blew up. My best friend blamed me for telling her secret to the girlfriend, he hasn't said anything to me, just ignores me (but that doesn't really surprise me much), and the girlfriend is in denial. She believes that her boyfriend is loyal and wouldn't cheat on her again. They are all still friends and, God only knows, my best friend and him are most likely still doing behind her back. Or, this is what I thought then.

My living situation in short.

A few days ago I found out that my roommate, from what she told me, said that they (my best friend and her) had planned out to tell me about my ex and my friend being together just to see if I'd snitch. They said it was a test to see if I was truly a good friend. So now I don't know what's real and what's been a lie. I'm so angry and hurt that I don't even want to make amends. I refuse to say I'm sorry for telling the girlfriend. I did what I thought was right at the time and they can't take that from me. She should know her boyfriend is a player before they get married. Even if it was or wasn't true, at that moment I took action. I am sorry I had to lose my closest friend in the process, I just wish she could have seen it from my point of view. She doesn't want to talk to me about it and my roommate just wants to argue and be in the middle. But, as I said before, I have to hear them all the time and it's really frustrating.

I'm currently living with my roommate and her family for a while due to some personal problems with my own family. In a way, they adopted me. So my friends are more like my family then my own family is. Because of this, they have helped me out greatly financially. I work at her fathers company as an administrative assistant and he has helped me get a car. I've been paying him back and, if everything goes smoothly, I should have him paid off by April 2009. My only problem is, I can't move out until the payment is complete (I'm under contract). So, I'm stuck living here and my option of moving is out of the question.

As for the trip, it was a fully paid trip from my roommates dad. He has paid for everything and is expecting us all to go as a happy group. I know that everything he has paid for me alone is real expensive and, if I was to back out, I wouldn't have the money to pay him back. So not going on this trip is a no-no.

All I'm asking is how do I handle this change? If I didn't have to worry about my car, a place to stay, or money I'd be out of here by now trying to start a new life.

I recently defended my position on loyalty to another poster here on the forum. I have a more simplistic view of it than most people.

Your "friends" (shudder, I use this term loosely) appear to hold to the playground version of loyalty. It's "sisters before misters" and blood oath and we keep each others secrets no matter what. That sound about right?

Well, that's wonderful, for the PLAYGROUND. Grownups should know better. But I know a HUGE number of grownups never adjust their definition of loyalty above the teenage version. Oh well. You still can.

For me, loyalty is about "being there come thick or thin" to support and defend your mates. That's it. No promises about other side issues like protecting inappropriate behavior, condoning infidelity, or supporting immorality. None. That's not loyalty anyway, that's enabling.

Of course you would've revealed the information had their little "trick" on you actually been attempted. Why? Because you apparently care for REAL and they care like 13 year olds. You would've failed their little friendship test because at its' core, it's dumb, short-sighted and immature. Immaturity is it's own punishment.

Anyway, I feel your pain. I see all the issues and admit it's tough. It sounds like my option #2 is your only choice. You have to stand there and take this abuse.

But you have a defense. Your maturity in the face of their joint abuse can actually have a good affect on them. Just be straight with them every chance you get.

"I'm sorry you guys feel hurt by my actions, but my honesty and willingness to always share truthfully and correctly is something you should be able to rely on as well. I will always be here to support you and help in any way I can. If anyone ever does something to hurt you, I will defend you, but that includes when we do things to hurt ourselves. A REAL friend, like I will always be, holds her friends accountable for what they do. That's why in the end, you want friends like me, someone who cares enough to be straight with you. THAT'S Loyalty."

Go on this trip, and don't let childish behavior spoil a good time. Be the mature one, and don't play those soap opera games of intrigue and drama.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBeaucaire

I recently defended my position on loyalty to another poster here on the forum. I have a more simplistic view of it than most people.

Your "friends" (shudder, I use this term loosely) appear to hold to the playground version of loyalty. It's "sisters before misters" and blood oath and we keep each others secrets no matter what. That sound about right?

Well, that's wonderful, for the PLAYGROUND. Grownups should know better. But I know a HUGE number of grownups never adjust their definition of loyalty above the teenage version. Oh well. You still can.

For me, loyalty is about "being there come thick or thin" to support and defend your mates. That's it. No promises about other side issues like protecting inappropriate behavior, condoning infidelity, or supporting immorality. None. That's not loyalty anyway, that's enabling.

Of course you would've revealed the information had their little "trick" on you actually been attempted. Why? Because you apparently care for REAL and they care like 13 year olds. You would've failed their little friendship test because at its' core, it's dumb, short-sighted and immature. Immaturity is it's own punishment.

Anyway, I feel your pain. I see all the issues and admit it's tough. It sounds like my option #2 is your only choice. You have to stand there and take this abuse.

But you have a defense. Your maturity in the face of there joint abuse can actually have a good affect on them. Just be straight with them every chance you get.

"I'm sorry you guys feel hurt by my actions, but my honesty and willingness to always share truthfully and correctly is something you should be able to rely on as well. I will always be here to support you and help in any way I can. If anyone ever does something to hurt you, I will defend you, but that includes when we do things to hurt ourselves. A REAL friend, like I will always be, holds her friends accountable for what they do. That's why in the end, you want friends like me, someone who cares enough to be straight with you. THAT'S Loyalty."

Thank you. Your answer has inspired me in a way.

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I'm so angry and hurt that I don't even want to make amends. I refuse to say I'm sorry for telling the girlfriend. I did what I thought was right at the time and they can't take that from me.

There is no need for making amends. They are the ones playing games, and you are past that. You honestly meant to protect someone from making what you thought was a valid mistake - and once grown up, this individual will realize it. But for now, denial and being defensive is the first reaction in those still immature. And, if he weren't guilty, he would not be so loudly denying, would he.

Families usually understand that friends will have their differences and as long as they don't chastise you, go on that trip with your head up high and proud. You grew up faster than the others did and don't need to 'test' loyalty. Besides, you'll all probably laugh at this whole thing five-ten years from now.

So enjoy the trip and let them steam if they want - that's their loss, and don't loose any more sleep over their childishness and get out of the playground, as JB said.

Good luck and keep us posted.

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I didn't read all the posts here so bare with me if I repeat anything..

You're friends are skum and don't deserve a friend like you.. I agree that you should just go on the trip and don't let them bother you (easier said than done) do you have any friends that would like to go with you? Friends that aren't connected with your old group? I know it's kind of hard to gather someone up real fast an expect them to shell out a bunch of cash, but you never know.. you can just ditch the other group with your new friend, so you're not alone. If that's not possible, I suggest you try to make friends in europe (or wherever you're going) and again hang out with them and not your old group..

I question how old you guys all are, you're friends truly act like they are in middle school.. and it's usually not wise for such a close knit group of friends to intertwine their lives too much, you're feeling the pain there, basically lost everything that makes you comfortable... also friends dating friends, another thing that's not a good idea.. you learned your lesson I'm sure..

I always had a big crush on him, so when we started going out it was great. Unfortunately things ended up a little too dramatic and my idea of us dating was better then actually being together. I think it was harder after we broke up because, I believe, he was angry that I walked out on him. He began dating his new girlfriend hardly a month after we broke up. I thought she was a rebound at first, but was surprised how long they lasted. I dated him about two years ago.

As for the age thing, the group varies from 19-24. He is the oldest guy in the group at 24, I'm the oldest girl. I'm going to be 22 in June. The youngest happens to be the girlfriend. The age thing was a big deal when we were in high school. But, now that we are older, it is considered common around here.

I know some people in their 30's who still have problems with emotional growth. It depends on whether they let the child, adolescent, or adult in them take the lead.

Keep us posted.

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So I used the line on my friends and surprisingly enough, they took it well. They started to be all friendly again. I'm still unsure how I feel about everything. I'm still a little Upset that they would play that game with me. On top of that I can't tell if they're being this way because they truly want to make amends or if they're just doing this because my roommates dad has been making a big deal that they play nice before and during the trip. I'd rather they be this way because they want to be and not because they were told to.

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Originally Posted by Lots-of-Love

I'd rather they be this way because they want to be and not because they were told to.

That is the absolute #1 most unfair thing I hear people say. When we first got married, my wife used to say that ALL the time until after years she was able to realize how impossible that kind of thinking is to the person you aim it at.

Why in the world would be want someone to do something, have them agree to do it, then PUNISH them emotionally because we decide to criticize their motivations for doing it? Holy cow, why can't the fact that people DO the things we want be enough?

Today, my wife and I are smarter when this stuff starts to creep up.

Her: "A girl from my work is getting married and wants us to come to the wedding."
Me: "Oh, well, ok, sounds doable."
Her: "You'll go with me?"
Me: "Of course I will."
Her: "Well, I only want you to go if you really want to."
Me: "Oh, I definitely DON'T want to go, but if you'd rather go alone instead instead letting me come out love for you, I'll let you make the call. You know I will. Let me know."
Her: "Ah, well, in that case you ARE going, hehe."

Adjust the topic and we do this all the time. The problem here is the person who receives the "only if you want to" comment has to catch it and immediately lob it back so as to point out its manipulative nature.

Let people choose to do the things they want for whatever reasons work for them. Then accept those actions as real no matter how they got to that point. THAT is loving behavior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBeaucaire

Let people choose to do the things they want for whatever reasons work for them. Then accept those actions as real no matter how they got to that point. THAT is loving behavior.

AMEN! Accept and don't question... no matter what motives they have - you can't read their minds and it will only stress you out second-guessing. Enjoy that it is happening! And have fun on your trip.

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Quote:

I'm sure I'm going to be ignored for the whole trip, but I really want this to be a great trip.

If you need them to have a good time, your in trouble already.