Hey everyone,

I'm not going to get to in depth with my story. Basically, I was recently (3 weeks ago) dumped by my girlfriend of 8 years. She gave me the typical lines of she wasn't sure about where she saw the relationship going, she didn't think that she felt the same way about me any more, etc...

I know that I am not completely innocent in all of this, but that is not where I am having troubles. Lately, I have had this gut feeling that one of my good friends is communicating with her in what could be more than a friendship level. I know that I don't have the right to say who talks to who, but in this case, after being with her for so long and him being one of my friends (she knows him through me), I can't help but feel betrayed and angered. I have a hard time believing that think that this is something that is just in my head since I was out with him and another friend and we were talking about plans for the weekend. When it came to what this one guy was doing, he said that he had a date and then gave our other friend the eyes of "you shouldn't have said anything" while he looked over at me. I wouldn't normally read too much into it, but this guy didn't know that I could see his eyes. Now I am pretty good at reading people and I definitely know the difference between the you shouldn't have said something because he'll feel bad and the you are going to let the cat out of the bag looks. This was clearly the you are going to get me in trouble eyes. Also, a couple of days before she and I broke up, she was flirting with him a bit while a group of us were out at a pub (she does not drink).

Am I reading too much into this or am I right to trust my gut instincts that there is and possibly was more going on than I know about. It also seems that the third friend knows something that he is not likely to share with me (he's the type not to say something and then when it becomes known, to say that he knew about it).

I ask because it really wasn't until we (the ex, this guy, and I) had hung out a bit ( a couple of times before she broke it off) that all of a sudden, there were problems in the relationship and that she was not interested in continuing on with it.

As much as I love my ex and am not happy about the break up, I am not thinking about her so much on this one as to the potential betrayal from two really close friends.

Drop this line of thinking, and broaden your circle of friends, or get new ones. My gut is telling me you may be right. If you are, then why even deal with it, as its none of your business, and you needed to expand yourself anyway. Sometimes break ups means losing friends, but meeting new ones, is a great side effect. No need to be mad, but be aware.

I agree with Taliniman...

You should be using this time to meet as many new people as possible. It makes you feel great and keeps you busy, trust me! If you happen to be right, you don't need to know any of them. Neither of them have the "right" to be pursuing your ex and she isn't the brightest for getting involved. Your best bet is to keep yourself away from that so you don't find out anything that you don't need to know. Your friends will get the hint, and if they don't, drop them...

Well, that's just it. I am starting to get out there and to meet new people. I didn't realize how hard it is, but I am giving it a go. It's just that I have been really good friends with these two guys for quite some time and they are supposed to have my back. Seems like this is turning out to be the case of with friends like these, who needs enemies.

On the other hand, I do want to know in a sense because that would at least leave me knowing why after almost 8 years and the discussion of getting married (within the month before we broke up), why this all of a sudden happened. To be honest, if it were the case, it really would help me move on with my life knowing the real reasons behind the break up rather than the load of $h!t excuses that did nothing but help her feel better about herself and what she did.

I know that I have to let go of what I had with her, and I am truly trying. I know that people here say that closure isn't something that you can get from someone after a relationship ends, but I know that it would help me to move on with my life.

He must be your friend if he's seeing your ex which is not a good sign. Some people don't care if a friend sees one of their ex, I know I would'nt, but if it bothering you them confront him and ask or leave him alone. Mostly likely if your instincts is telling you this its true, remember that.

You need to be careful bud...

You say you wish you knew all these details because it would help you get over your breakup. This sounds very similar to another viewpoint I disagree with: "I wish she cheated on me so i was mad." I think you are better off not knowing these details as they hardly ever make anything easier.

Try not to think about the reasons. Its impossible to rationalize something as emotional as a breakup - don't try...

I really wish you were kidding by all this, but I see that you aren't.

So, just to be clear, you're trying to ascertain if the reason your girlfriend of 8 years left you is because she was interested in someonse else already? That right?

Wow, OK. Everyone so far is right, you need to move on and move up. But let me take a stab at your actual question.

Your girlfriend of 8 years broke up with you because she was still only a girlfriend... of 8 years! Of course she's ready for more, probably has been for a long time. You weren't. She moved on. She was smart.

As for your friends going out with her... wow, so what? All that friendship etiquette stuff is just more fake basis for drama and useless controlling behavior after-the-fact.

You're her past. Someone else is her future, possibly one of your friends.

If you REALLY want to spend time thinking about her, think about all the things that allowed you to date someone THAT LONG and not move things to the final stages. That stuff usually occurs after 2 years. EIGHT? Holy cow.

Don't do that again.

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Originally Posted by JBeaucaire

If you REALLY want to spend time thinking about her, think about all the things that allowed you to date someone THAT LONG and not move things to the final stages. That stuff usually occurs after 2 years. EIGHT? Holy cow.

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JB,

I tend to disagree here. Not so much with the advice, but do you really think that after two years together people should be thinking about engagement and planning marriage. Granted, I'm only 21 so I'm not so expeirenced with this, but it just seems so fast for me. I was in a relationship for almost 4 years and I hadn't really thought about moving to the next level in a serious manner. It was mostly - "Let me finish school and get a job and see how I feel then". Maybe I'm slow? It worries me that I should feel pressured after two years.

Then again, it wasn't really a relationship that I could see ending in marriage and I was starting to see that towards the end...

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but do you really think that after two years together people should be thinking about engagement and planning marriage.

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Maybe not people in college, just trying to build a foundation, but dating after two years, marriage is the next logical step. Isn't that the point of dating, to see if you can be life partners? Why date exclusively if you don't want a life companion? I can't even see moving in unless the plan is long term, but that's just my old school thinking again.

Why do people feel the need to play the guessing game? You know you. You know how you feel about things and what you can or can not handle. That being said if you feel that your friend dating your ex would be a betrayal then then be honest enough to ask. Simple, ask your friend if he's is interested in her. You can then decide whether you can handle a friendship with this guy. If he were a true friend he would be mature and honest enough to come to you before anything in respect for your feelings, not for permission, to tell you how he is feeling. But on the other hand if you were mature enough and a good friend you would respect that and want for his possible happiness, even if it is with her. Unless she is some terrible person and you know she would hurt him in some manner because she has bad character. But that doesn't sound like what is going on. Either way, she is not property, people are not property and we can not hold them as if to say they are mine and no one I know can have them.

Nobody can tell you when it is right to move from girlfriend/boyfriend to marriage so I disagree with the above statements about that. It is different for everyone.

You may never truly know why she broke up with you. That is hard to swallow sometimes. But the best thing for you to do is take whatever positive you can out of the whole situation and move forward. Harboring anger and resentment only hurts you, holding on to needing closure only holds onto her and hurts you.

It is hard sometimes to see the people we once cared for or loved cared for or loved by someone else, especially someone close to us. Shouldn't be much of a surprise though. If she ever truly loved you, then she valued you, and if you value another person isn't it very possible that she would see the same great things in the person you chose as a friend? Some people can handle this situation and some people can't. My opinion is once my relationship is over with a person they are free to find happiness elsewhere with who ever they chose, even my friend. But that is just me. And it is harder when you were not the one who wanted the break up.

Either way the bottom line to me, is honesty, with yourself and those around you. Don't guess whether something is going on or not. Ask. If you guess and you are wrong you could lose a friend if you guess and are right then you will feel even more betrayed. At least knowing gives you a chance to deal with all the information and make a mature decision.

JB,

A two year plan really wasn't an option, we met at the beginning of college and spent the next 4 years together while going to school. When we finished school, we stayed together but we wanted to start getting established in our careers so that we were financially stable enough to afford the wedding, the house, and eventually the kids. We moved in together a couple of years ago and that was a huge step for both of us. About a year ago, we began putting together the life plan of when we wanted and saw things going. This was not like we had not discussed the future or what our expectations from each other were. This is how I know that she knew that things were moving forward.

I can see where you are trying to go with this, but like I had said, we had talked about marriage and there were reassurances that there was a ring coming in the very near future (I was going to ask her this Monday). She was well aware I wanted more than bf/gf and I had turned down a great job (which would have required re-locating) because she would not have been able to relocate. I also told her that I would never regret turning it down because it meant that we could move forward to the next level in the relationship. She also knew that I was ring shopping since I had gone out to look with one of her really good friends (I knew what I was looking for, this was just because I knew it would get back to her that this is what I was doing).

That is not my point though.


The way that you are putting this comes across that it is completely okay for one of my close friends to go behind my back and get involved with my ex within a matter of weeks of us breaking up (if there wasn't something going on before that). Your comments come across that you have no loyalty to your friends and if you wanted to mess around with someone (taken or not) you wouldn't care who the other person is (even one of your closest friends). Don't you think that your viewpoint might be a bit short sighted to the impact that this might have. I don't stand to lose one friend but two in this whole process (and since I she is already gone she doesn't count) and that's what I am not okay with. You are supposed to be able to trust you friends but if there is something starting, he really should find out from me if I am okay with it. That is just due respect. I know that in my group of friends, that this type of thing is not acceptable. Even he had said to me that buddy's ex's are always off limits. This is more about trust than anything else? With everything going on in my life and how difficult getting past her is, not knowing who to or not to be able to trust anyone right now is not really helpful to my situation.

This is a time where emotionally and mentally, I am not nearly close to 100% and being in such a condition, this is where friends truly matter. I am not burdening them with talking about the ex because if I did, then they would get sick of me quite quickly. It's the feeling that my entire support network (except for you guys) is shutting down. That's really a terrible feeling to have because it then starts to feel like I have lost everything, not just the relationship and my ex.

As to the break up. I have accepted that it happened and some of the reasons for it, but to go from talking about marriage to being tossed aside like a toy that a kid doesn't want to play with anymore within a matter of days seems to be more than just the change of her feelings towards me.

What is happening for me right now is that I am seeing a lot of the pieces to the puzzle, and I'm putting them in place. It's just that feeling in the pit of my stomach that one of the last pieces that fits into that puzzle just isn't in the box or on the table. It's like someone walked past the table and stuck it in their pocket because of how important that piece really is. Once I can see the whole thing together, I will know how and why everything happened the way it did. But until then, it makes it very hard to learn, grow, and move on from this experience.

You know, whether people here feel it is OK that your friend dates your ex or not is not what I think you were really asking. You asked whether we may see the same thing you do. I don't think you are imagining things. It is very possible that your friend is or has been dating your ex. Different groups of friends have different "rules" and we can't even truly know all the details of your situation. Only you can decide whether you would feel betrayed by that and no one can really say if that is right or wrong. We can only speak for ourselves. Feelings are delicate matters. But the only way to know for sure is to ask him. :)

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Even he had said to me that buddy's ex's are always off limits. This is more about trust than anything else? With everything going on in my life and how difficult getting past her is, not knowing who to or not to be able to trust anyone right now is not really helpful to my situation.

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One of the hardest lessons in life, is learning how to cope with ourselves in a positive, and honest way. Most times you will find that no matter the situation, what YOU do about it, is what's more important than solving the problem, if that makes sense. Just me, its important to see reality, and not try to do more than we are realistically capable. In your case, I think your feelings are high, and you need time for the dust to settle, to see the reality of your situation, before you can make a plan of action. That's why my suggestion was to focus on you, and your situation, and not the rest of the world, as the actions you take without facts, may not be the best thing to do. That's the best way to deal with the shock your in now, and it does require time, and a good routine to settle the emotional dust. Anything else can wait, until you get centered again. You need to recognize the hard punch that life has planted on your head, and get your legs back under you. Then you can deal with what needs to be done. Just give yourself that chance to regroup, and rethink.

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Your comments come across that you have no loyalty to your friends and if you wanted to mess around with someone (taken or not) you wouldn't care who the other person is (even one of your closest friends). Don't you think that your viewpoint might be a bit short sighted to the impact that this might have. I don't stand to lose one friend but two in this whole process (and since I she is already gone she doesn't count) and that's what I am not okay with. You are supposed to be able to trust you friends but if there is something starting, he really should find out from me if I am okay

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Of course, you're going to need to make choices that make your life manageable. I understand that. On this issue regarding loyalty, I admit I am an odd duck.

There are two definitions of loyalty - one that is aimed at others, and one that is aimed at yourself. They are both essentially correct and in widespread use.

You seem to ascribe to the more common: Loyalty is standing by your mates, bros before hos. This includes the kind of loyalty you cite - not going out with one of your ex's because... well, because it would hurt your feelings.

I don't believe in that kind of loyalty, at least not solely. To me, loyalty is something that describes my commitment to supporting my mates and not deserting them. It doesn't, nor should, require any specific approval of or duplication of my beliefs. Just because I might not like him dating my ex, what grounds do I have for being hurt by it other than "it just does"?

I don't find it demonstrates loyalty when my mates avoid potential good things in their life just because I want them to. It demonstrates immature comradery, at best. Which is fine. Comradery actually works, it's just not the best we can do for ourselves. I hope I'm making sense.

I know, this can result in a heated debate, but you will find in my posts all throughout this site a very common theme... A friend is something you ARE, not something you have.

That same technique applies to everything... for me:

• Loyalty is something you give, not demand.
• Friendship is something you offer, not seek.
• Faithfulness is something you selflessly pledge, not laud.

... and on and on. I know it's simplistic, but it works. When you inhabit the characteristics you find most honorable and cherished, it inspires those around you to the same things. This is good. When they fail to demonstrate these qualities, I have no need to punish them, I continue to support them and demonstrate myself what I mean. Eventually they get it, or they don't, I'm fine either way.

It is so much easier to acquire a faithful, loyal, confident mate in life because first and foremost... you ARE those things towards her in an unclingy, undemanding way. You inspire each other as you gain strength in these qualities.

Friendships are the same way. I would never seek to expect or demand a restraint on their part in any endeavor that could lead to their happiness, just because it includes people I have had failures with. They can OFFER to restrain themselves, and that is just fine. But they do no actual harm if they don't restrain.

After all, they are both available single people and deserve every chance at happiness, don't they? And don't I WANT this for my friends?

Anyway, as I said, I'm an odd duck on this topic. I know most people ascribe to the more common tit-for-tat approach.

JB,

You make very valid points in your argument. I can see where you are going with all of this and I understand the point that you are trying to make.

This was just a matter of feeling like I didn't know who to trust.

I have no problems saying that my viewpoint on this issue is/was selfish of me, but when you get the feeling that everything around you is falling apart, it feels even worse when you feel that your friends are jumping ship for her too.

I know that when/if I don't have an emotional connection that things like this will not bother me, but I am still in the early stages of recovery from this and sometimes seem and feel a lot worse than they might actually be.

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but I am still in the early stages of recovery

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Yes you are so be very cautious of your actions.

I figure that the best approach is to keep it calm cool and collected.

Let everything that is going to happen happens in it's own time. Eventually, the truth of all matters gets out there. You just have to be patient sometimes.

I'm working on the patience part right now.

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Originally Posted by movinrightalong

I figure that the best approach is to keep it calm cool and collected.

Let everything that is going to happen happens in it's own time. Eventually, the truth of all matters gets out there. You just have to be patient sometimes.

I'm working on the patience part right now.

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Depends on what truth you are looking for and if you are ready to accept it.

I sincerely wish you luck in your healing process.

The next post on this subject coming from me might sound harsh, but I just had to say it and that's what this site is all about - opinions and advice from experience giving you the choice to take it or leave it..

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Like I said below, this is my initial reaction to your original post, and I do realize that you are just starting to heal, so just another 2 cent's worth...

You, like most men, don't really want to know if she had her eyes on someone else during this relationship. You just need an excuse not to blame yourself for the fact that you were not aware and not taking it further. You were at a standstill way before he came along but don't want to admit it.

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Your girlfriend of 8 years broke up with you because she was still only a girlfriend... of 8 years! Of course she's ready for more, probably has been for a long time. You weren't. She moved on. She was smart.

As for your friends going out with her... wow, so what? All that friendship etiquette stuff is just more fake basis for drama and useless controlling behavior after-the-fact.


If you REALLY want to spend time thinking about her, think about all the things that allowed you to date someone THAT LONG and not move things to the final stages. That stuff usually occurs after 2 years. EIGHT? Holy cow.

Don't do that again.

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I would never seek to expect or demand a restraint on their part in any endeavor that could lead to their happiness, just because it includes people I have had failures with. They can OFFER to restrain themselves, and that is just fine. But they do no actual harm if they don't restrain.

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JB is so right and I only wish half of the men in your situation would wake up and get off their lazy behinds and work on a relationship before it goes sour. Get off the 'pity-pot' (borrowed from Tal) , learn from your mistakes and work harder the next time and never, ever relax and take a woman for granted. Growth is a two-way street and you need to keep up or you lost. Your friends had absolutely no influence within or outside of this relationship. You let it get this far, now accept it and get on with life.

There is also a difference between trusting your friends and trusting yourself. If a woman attracts you, even if she has had former relationships, would you not want to get to know her - even if you went to school with one of her exes?? Get real - there is always a possibility that we know one or two of our mate's former partners and it is not disloyal to fall in love with them.

The only sure way to be absolutely positive that this will never happen again is if you and your mate lived on one lonely island and your friends on another. This is false reality and not dealing with the actual issue - You and what you are going to do in the future.. without blaming others for shortcomings.

Again, lots of luck. I promise, it will get easier.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_11_2.gif

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Originally Posted by movinrightalong

JB,

What is happening for me right now is that I am seeing a lot of the pieces to the puzzle, and I'm putting them in place. It's just that feeling in the pit of my stomach that one of the last pieces that fits into that puzzle just isn't in the box or on the table. It's like someone walked past the table and stuck it in their pocket because of how important that piece really is. Once I can see the whole thing together, I will know how and why everything happened the way it did. But until then, it makes it very hard to learn, grow, and move on from this experience.

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Maybe the materialistic goals were no longer on her agenda. People do change their minds and change priorities.

You too will have a whole new outlook on life in the future through this experience. I see your pain and how much you invested and I sincerely hope that your healing process does not take half as long..

Keep us posted.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_11_2.gifDon't look back.. look ahead!