Hi,
I just recently came across an issue that Im struggling with, and I hope that someone will have advice for me.
I currently have cell phone service through a national cellular provider, and I normally paid my bill online. Last September I was short $27 for my bill, so I asked a friend to borrow it, and at the time the only way we could do so was to use her card, which we did. I paid her back the next week and subsequently every time I went to make a payment online I made sure that the last four digits of the card to be authorized was my credit card, I always verified this. On my end, I saw my digits.
I found out this past weekend, my "friend" called me saying that she has been charged for the bill since last September. I called the phone company and explained the situation and asked could they refund her the money. I explained they had a glitch in their system, because I never authorized her card for this. The person I spoke with advised they would open a tech support ticket, etc. and I told him even though the glitch was on their end, it was obvious the money never came out of my count, so if they refunded I would have to pay them back. I was advised that they cannot reverse the charges and would not refund the card.. I went through several departments and was given this line.
Prior to reaching them, I had tried to contact my "friend" and her parents answered (shes 26) and started telling me off how Im such a bad person, how Ive been milking money from her since Ive known her and that Im a thief. I tried to explain to them I would never do that, but they refused to believe me. I told them I had $100 on me that I could pay then, but they just took turns on the phone basically to rip me a new one.. before hanging up on me. I have not spoken to them since.
After finding out from the phone company that they wouldn't reverse the charges, I was forced to write my so called friend and tell her that Id have to pay her directly, and after a few correspondence she wrote back and said OK. Ive kept all correspondence.
In the interim I received a response back from the phone company to an email I had sent (as well as calling) and this response said that if she disputed it with her credit card, the credit card company would go to the phone company to dispute.. the phone company would pay and the balance would appear on my bill.
Fine, whatever.
I wrote them back asking first should I advice her this and go this way (I was concerned that this would flag my credit or something outside of the balance due on the phone companys part), or if I paid her directly and had a notarized letter signed by her that said basically 'by signing I agree she has paid in full and I agree not to seek restitution against her or the phone company' however my sister found a loophole... if I paid her, she could still go to the credit card company and have them dispute, thus me ending with a balance on my account and having to pay twice... this was a concern.
Today I got a call from the company... and her father was on the line with them and the representative explained he didn't tell her father anything without my permission.. after talking things over I decided it was best to just have her go through her credit card company to dispute.. the rep was willing to talk to her father on my behalf and advise him of this, and I explained to him why I didn't want to talk to him because he was calling me a thief. The rep told me that her father said that to him.
Is this not, by legal definition, public defamation of my name/character?
The rep also explained to me that the father had called... and he mentioned the words litigation and subpoena to him.. Im not sure what was said.. but now Im scared that even after getting her money back from the credit card company, that they will somehow try to file suit against me. It wasn't clear if her father was threatening to do this to the phone company and/or me...

So my major question is this.. if I have emails to her asking her how to resolve (and subsequently advice Id pay her at the time and she said ok) and I have communication from the phone company... and so it shows Ive been proactive in trying to resolve this issue.. can they have any grounds to file suit against me? I know its easy to sue people for almost any reason these days so Im worried about this.. even if not monetary compensation Im sure they would do something to try and 'teach me a lesson' cause again, they think I stole from their daughter.
I have spoken with my grandmother for advice, and she advised me that they can't as Ive been proactive.. and if they try to sue for any reason (ex emotional distress) that I should counter sue for harassment..

I would really prefer it not come to that.. but Im not sure what to do.. do you think they would have any grounds, if they got the money back, to try and come after me and do you think they would have any chance? And if they do somehow find some reason to take me to court.. and I know nothing could be stated as fact, only opinion.. but do you think I would win... and do you think mentioning the defamation of my character would help in any form..
Please advise Ive been stressed out for a week now..

Thanks
Cheryl

Listen to your grandmother. She is right.

If she gets her money back, then odds are she has nothing to sue you for.

Ok, you were suppose to be paying the bill, they did not bill your credit card or take money from your bank account for this bill.

When you balanced your money at the end of the month didyou not notice they had not gotten to taken their money.

But if you were paying them but it was not coming out of your money, then you should have that money since it did not go to the phone company.

Just pay the girl.

In all honestly you owe her, not the phone company oweing her and you oweing the phone company. Pay her and be done with it.
You are involving this poor phone company and it is not there fault, you did not check what account the money was coming from, were not chekcing the balances on your accounts.

Ok, if you used her card number without her permission you are at fault and if you used her credit without per permission this can be both a civil nad a criminal issue. ( most likely not criminal unless she presses charges and can prove you intended this to happen) But yes they have a very good case against you for credit card fraud.

They can also try to get the money back frrom the phone company, but they have a much better case against you. And if they do get it from the phone company, they will merely have a law suit with possible criminal charges against you if they have to pay the other girl back.

So do what ever you have to and pay YOUR bill to this girl. It is your responsibility to pay her.

Don't pay her.

Have her recover the money from the phone company and then pay the phone company.

You don't want that loophole your sister told you about to come true.

Pay her and get a receipt or give her a money order and keep the receipt and put what the money order is for on it. This will stand up in court and get her out of your business.Whenever you pay online you have to make sure the credit card info is correct every time or this will lead to this very situation your in.been there done that!They will eventually straighten this out but in the meantime stay dead in their you know what!:cool:

I have documented proof that she agreed to resolve the issue by me paying her directly, thus she was agreeing to a resolution individually.. would that not be sufficient in court to throw out the case if they tried criminal charges?
If that's not enough, I have a copy of the emails I sent the phone company to show Ive been proactive. A true criminal wouldn't be trying to pay, that's a fact.. and I know the courts are impartial to opinions.. which right now is just that.. her parents opinion. (im not sure about hers, if you see the emails below)
Also, she is not a minor, but her parents are the ones making all the calls/threats - since she is not a minor, they have no rights to be talking to me anyway, she's supposed to.. is this correct? My grandmother said that if they try to hang up on them, do not speak to them.

An update on this is that, since it was obvious that she/they were going to dispute via the credit card, I sent her an email today, that basically said 'since you're going to go through your credit card company to dispute the charges, the phone company will reimburse you through them, and then I will reimburse the phone company. Therefore I will not be paying you directly.' I felt I should write that letter to her because it occurred to me, what if after they get the money back they try to pull a fast one and say, we have proof that I agreed to pay her this amount on this date.. and say I didn't..
Of course Im not, if they are getting the money back, Im not going to pay twice. I also worded the email so that basically if the statement that they were going to go through the credit card company for the refund was NOT true, she would have to respond and say so. For if she doesn't respond its confirmation of the statement..

And it was not fraud on my part, the initial error was on the phone companys end. My mistake (and hers as well) was not catching it until now. That doesn't make me a bad person, it doesn't make me a criminal. All I did was check my available balance whenever I needed to get in the account-thats why I didn't see the money hadn't come out of the account. Yes Ive learned the hard way now because of this..

In speaking with the phone company rep.. He said they were impartial to any opinion, and the strong impression I got was this was no matter to them.. it was simple: if her credit card disputes, they will pay, and then transfer the balance to my account. [see email below] It will become and issue to them if I don't pay them back.. [/I][/I]

Below, are the emails that I was sent (I don't have all of them right now I left the recent copies at work). Starting in order, the emails are red for her response and blue for mine. Green is the phone company.

We need to come to a resolution regarding this matter.
I definitely feel strongly that you and I, two adults, can work to resolve this matter. I spoke with [phone company] yesterday, and its going to take time to resolve this issue with [phone company]. It will be faster for me to pay you directly.
The ball is in your court. You tell me how you want to handle this.
Regardless of what you believe, the truth of the matter is that I did not do this, [phone company] did. I find it sad and disappointing that after knowing me for this long that you would honestly believe that I did this.


well if its [phone company]s fault, then ill have them pay me back.

Well thats the problem isnt it. You cannot call on my account without my social security, which Im not going to give you.
Its going to take awhile for me to work with them because they are trying to avoid issuing you a refund. They state they cannot reverse payments that have already been processed. I have gone alredy through their customer service, their accounts and finance departments and told them I dont want them to reverse the payments I want them to issue you a refund. How hard is it for them to send money to your card. Therefore it is best for both parties that I pay you directly. No matter that its their mistake Im still going to have to pay. Either them or you.
If everything works as it should, I will be paying you completely on [said date].
ok, the payment needs to be in cash. They seemed fine with refunding me when I talked to them. Im sorry but unauthorized payment makes it stealing, if thats the attitude they are giving you.

[followed by this email]
if they give either of us a hard time with this, my bank will go after them for it. Its still unauthorized even if its already been processed.

All this was written before I got a response from the phone company via email that if she disputes through her credit card, that they would pay.
This is part of the email I got from the phone company:
I certainly do apologize for any inconvenience that you have experienced regarding payments being applied to your account. Unfortunately, you will need to dispute the charges through the specific credit card company or bank. They will then dispute the charges on behalf of the account holder.

If the payments are disputed will then be responsible for the balance
due on your account.

Two days after this I got the call from the rep saying her father was on the line trying to get the money from them.
Im sorry it's a long response, but I want to be thorough and whatever can help me, I need to know in case they do try.

Thank you for your assistance and reading all this!

Except that if I pay her directly, she could in turn still go dispute through her card company and phone company would pay and Id end up paying twice..
I was going to do that, pay her directly, cashiers check and have her sign a statement saying she was paid and that was that..
I chose for the option to go through the phone company also because her parents were pushing for the payment from them directly, and because of the above.. and also I felt Id be more protected this way.. because its even more substantial proof they were paid.
I did make sure the card said my credit card number before I authorized. I know I don't have proof on it, how do you prove when that page disappears after you've paid... and you can't go back to it. But I did check to make sure it was my card.

Also.. if it came to it, and if the rep at the phone company did stand witness.. [i know it's a big if] does it help me in any form because of the defamation of character law.. or if not that..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Pay her and get a reciept or give her a money order and keep the reciept and put what the money order is for on it. This will stand up in court and get her out of your business.Whenever you pay online you have to make sure the credit card info is correct everytime or this will lead to this very situation your in.been there done that!They will eventually straighten this out but in the meantime stay dead in their you know what!:cool:

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It's a shame when they can take your money in 3 minutes and you can't get it back for 90 days and a supreme court decision.Relax they will get it straight good luck and keep us posted:cool:

Im going to have to print your last statement and pin it to my wall =)

I can understand a certain reluctance on the part of the phone company.

If you didn't have $27 to pay the remainder of the bill in September, why should they believe you have the money now to pay for October, November, December, January and February? Do you now have the approximate $500 to pay your friend?

Is it possible that both your account and your friend's account end with the same four numbers?

Regardless, it seems you did a lot of back and forth talking without actually *doing* anything proactive. Why did you not immediately apologize to your friend, send her a check for the FULL AMOUNT, and then confirm with the phone company that they have the correct credit card number? YOURS! Three steps and you are finished. Everyone has their correct payment. Instead, you have dragged this out so long that her parents had to get into it to try and help her. You even dragged your grandmother into it.

As I came here looking for help for my situation, and not to be flamed, Im going to try and be as diplomatic as possible. I would appreciate that if there is nothing productive to say, then to not post a response at all. The comments that were made were not only presumptious at the very least, they were also very incorrect. Read the actual posts to show that I have tried to resolve (as in pay) this issue from day one.
I believe I made it abundantly clear that since this all started I had to talk to her parents first and foremost. They did not even try to resolve the issue. I offered to make a payment with what I had on me at the time. I had worked it out with her that I would pay her directly (albeit having doubts as to whether I would be protected if I did so) on the specified date, but then her father called trying to get payment directly from the phone company. At that point, he really chose the path we are now on - to go through the phone company. The phone company is impartial to all this. They have their guidelines which they follow. If she disputes through her card, and they refund the card.. they will bill me for the balance and that's that. They have made it clear that there is no other issue.
I am not worried about paying it, I am not trying to get out of it, and I definitely do feel that she should get her money back. No where do I say she wasn't wronged by this. But I was wronged too. I put my trust in the company to have a working website.

What I do not appreciate is the accusation that Im trying to dodge payment and that Im dragging people into this. I went to my grandmother for advice and support - something normal people do. I do not appreciate that the accusation is made that I drug her parents in either. From the moment this all started they have involved themselves.
I also do not appreciate that just because its apparent that Im not making triple digit figures Im immediately being treated as a criminal.
The help Im requesting is in case she decides to get vindictive and try to get more from me than the amount involved.

Phone bills are a hot issue many of us have dealt with. Your solution is as I said to pay your friend and keep receipts and no other action is required by you except to make sure the online card you use is yours for your next payment. Not only would it get her out of your business,but her parents as well. So get it done and stop worrying what the CC company will do,as it may take them 30-90 days to resolve this .The more quick you take care of this the better.:cool: