Ask Me Help Desk - Define harassment

According to Michigan law; what is the definition of and what constitutes harassment. I have a nosey neighbor that I tried just to ignore last summer but it has already started again this summer. Her complaint is that I have a play set in my front yard. She sent the ordinance enforcement officer to my home three times last year. The complaint is legit to a certain degree--but there is nothing written regarding toys in the front yard. Regardless, Dave has to come check out every complaint she makes.

I also know that when she "had it out" for another neighbor when she didn't get the results she wanted from the city police she called the county sheriff's department.

I have a lawyer but I really don't want to pay him to get a nosey neighbor off my back--Nor do I have documentation that it is she who is complaining.

Not sure what to do---Walk my dog in her yard and not clean it up?? :p

If the documents are available for public viewing, make copies of all complaints she has filed against you. It would be worth a 15 min. consultation with an attorney once you have facts on paper, to see what your options are.

This person may just always try to cause a bit of aggravation but my concern is 'escalation of harrsement' on her part. I would advise to "nip it in the bud" so to speak. If you have a repore with her, visit and try to resolve and reach peace but if she is not open to that, be ready to take some course of aciton to resolve the issue.

Tolerance is good and I don't downplay the positive nature of that. Please, just be cautious and find a quick resolve so this person does not continue to harrass you. Best to you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by shellyjo68

According to Michigan law; what is the definition of and what constitutes harassment. I have a nosey neighbor that I tried just to ignore last summer but it has already started again this summer. Her complaint is that I have a play set in my front yard. She sent the ordinance enforcement officer to my home three times last year. The complaint is legit to a certain degree--but there is nothing written regarding toys in the front yard. Regardless, Dave has to come check out every complaint she makes.

I also know that when she "had it out" for another neighbor when she didn't get the results she wanted from the city police she called the county sheriff's department.

I have a lawyer but I really don't want to pay him to get a nosey neighbor off my back--Nor do I have documentation that it is she who is complaining.

Not sure what to do---Walk my dog in her yard and not clean it up???:p

If the complaint is "legit to a certain degree" and you can't prove she is complaining I don't see that you have a case.

I would suggest against walking your dog in her yard and not cleaning it up unless it is in your plan to further antagonize her or get yourself arrested - and revenge never really works out anyway.

I would have an Attorney look into your local Laws and see how to proceed. Sometimes a letter stops it, sometimes it makes it worse. Only you know how bad this is/could get. You also are somewhat tied by not knowing who makes the complaints and the "somewhat legit" complication.

Basically I am curious how u would handle it in your neighborhood. I don't want to cause a neighborhood circus but I have seen her go from house to house causing trouble. Her complaints are along the lines of calling the police on someone giving a child a ride in a golf cart on the side walk--a one time deal. My trash can lid wasn't closed. A family got investigated for spanking a child when he ran in the street, kids riding bikes on the sidewalk and of course, my toys in the yard. Some of these things do go against city ordinances but come on...

When I tried to be friendly with her she complained about another neighbor's roof and another time about someone's unleashed dog.

I did feel sorry for her until I became the subject of her complaints!

I am also curious to what degree it has to go to be harassment--as mentioned by someone else the complaints are public record.

If it continues I will contact our lawyer but I'm interested in other people's take on it.

Today she made it a point to walk down a side walk that leads nowhere and appeared to be checking out my backyard fence.

This was a rather different case, but a while back when my parents where going through there divorce and my father knew my siblings and I were always at our aunt and uncles house he would regularly call the police up here and tell them he needed them to do a welfare check because he thought we might be in danger blah blah blah. What he didn't realize was that my uncle knows most of the police department and is friends with the sergeant. So the police put up with it for a while and would basically come by and say hi because they were obligated to do the welfare check. They finally got fed up though when my father claimed that my uncle was molesting my little sister (everyone involved knew it was a malicious lie from my father). The police did there investigation like they were obligated to and then the sergeant called my father to chew him out and made it clear that my father was not going to be permitted to use the police department to harass us any longer. So, the point is, it can never hurt to be friends with the people in charge whenever possible. If you can prove that this woman is deliberatley harassing the neighborhood it may only take a sweet friendly phone call to make it stop ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by justcurious55

this was a rather different case, but a while back when my parents where going through there divorce and my father knew my siblings and i were always at our aunt and uncles house he would regularly call the police up here and tell them he needed them to do a welfare check because he thought we might be in danger blah blah blah. what he didn't realize was that my uncle knows most of the police department and is friends with the sergeant. so the police put up with it for a while and would basicaly come by and say hi because they were obligated to do the welfare check. they finally got fed up tho when my father claimed that my uncle was molesting my lil sister (everyone involved knew it was a malicious lie from my father). the police did there investigation like they were obligated to and then the sergeant called my father to chew him out and made it clear that my father was not going to be permitted to use the police department to harass us any longer. so, the point is, it can never hurt to be friends with the people in charge whenever possible. if you can prove that this woman is deliberatley harassing the neighborhood it may only take a sweet friendly phone call to make it stop ;)

This makes me unhappy - I know it happens but I don't like to think that friends of Police Officers get preferential treatment. As I said - I know it happens but what about everyone who doesn't have a connection - ?

You have an edge that many homeowners don't have and that is you know who is making all the complaints.

Have you ever heard the story about the old man who couldn't sleep because his faucet would drip at night? The doc told him to get a sheep the first night, and a cow the second night, a chicken the third night, and so on. He finally went back to the doctor screaming that it was insanity and he couldn't even dream of getting any sleep in that circus. Then the doctor told him to remove all the animals and that night he slept like a baby to the sweet, comforting sound of a slowly dripping faucet.

Some might argue that it's just easier to fix the faucet. Either way, you have options.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shellyjo68

Basically I am curious how u would handle it in your neighborhood. I don't want to cause a neighborhood circus but I have seen her go from house to house causing trouble. Her complaints are along the lines of calling the police on someone giving a child a ride in a golf cart on the side walk--a one time deal. My trash can lid wasn't closed. A family got investigated for spanking a child when he ran in the street, kids riding bikes on the sidewalk and of course, my toys in the yard. Some of these things do go against city ordinances but come on...

When I tried to be friendly with her she complained about another neighbor's roof and another time about someone's unleashed dog.

I did feel sorry for her until I became the subject of her complaints!

I am also curious to what degree it has to go to be harassment--as mentioned by someone else the complaints are public record.

If it continues I will contact our lawyer but I'm interested in other people's take on it.

Today she made it a point to walk down a side walk that leads nowhere and appeared to be checking out my backyard fence.

I've posted this before - it's long so I apologize in advance but it was a lengthy process:

I had neighbors who would have made Hades seem like a picnic. They moved in and tormented everyone in the neighborhood. When the mother wasn't calling Child Welfare, she was calling Animal Control. We would get calls in the middle of the night from Animal Control, asking us to quiet our dogs (we're in a rural area and Animal Control doesn't necessarily go out at night) and the call would wake up the dogs who were sleeping in the bedroom with us. They were most definitely not - nor had they been - outside. They called the SPCA on three neighbors, claiming abuse and neglect. Our property is surrounded by a chainlink fence; we put a privacy fence along their side (inside the chainlink) and they set it on fire. I never understood it because the father was well educated, well employed and the mother was just the opposite. One of my neighbors has MS; this neighbor told everyone she has AIDS.

The mother spent a lot of her time videotaping everyone in the neighborhood doing absolutely nothing - I would walk outside and there she would be, sometimes standing on something to videotape over the fence. I ignored her as much as I could - if she wanted to videotape me mowing my lawn, there was little I could do about it - no sense stewing over what you can't control.

And then one day I walked outside just as the son (who was about 11) called my dog to the back fence (on someone else's property) and threw a firecracker in her face.

I was at my Attorney's office that afternoon. He sent a "cease and desist" letter and they responded by calling the SPCA saying that I had thrown the firecracker at my own dog. We then immediately sued for intentional infliction of emotional distress. It went on for almost two years but in the meantime they were quiet because it was worded in a way that brought their homeowners insurance into play and the homeowners shut them up.

When we went to oral depositions the mother actually went ballistic in the Attorney's office, slamming her fists on the table, yelling and screaming, name calling (half of what she was screaming about related to where they used to live), the Police were called, the Attorneys were pretty shaken - the insurance company threw in and cancelled the policy, they put their house up for sale... and they moved. I later found out that they were in a foreclosure situation, their gas was shut off - I have no idea what was going on. When the realtor showed the house I was told the inside had been trashed. It needed thousands of dollars in repairs - after three years!

I was not in a position to move at that time and had no choice but to stand my ground nor would I be driven out. I later heard that they moved out of State and the mother got herself arrested by her "new" neighbor.

So - anyway - sorry for the long story but that ended the problem, at least for me.

I think you try to ignore what you can't control and stop what you can control.

Thanks for the very interesting story Judy! It made me wonder if your ex-neighbor moved near me?? I guess people are very fortunate if they don't have a "neighbor" story like that! Heck, I don't even need strangers to be bad neighbors... I have family members living nearby that cause plenty of aggravation! For a long time, such people have made me want to live in a cave in the middle of a hundred acres surrounded by a moat, but I know that the trouble would be only as far as the end of the driveway. So, you are right in that you have to "ignore what you can't control and stop what you can control".

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneguyinohio

Thanks for the very interesting story Judy! It made me wonder if your ex-neighbor moved near me??? I guess people are very fortunate if they don't have a "neighbor" story like that! Heck, I don't even need strangers to be bad neighbors... I have family members living nearby that cause plenty of aggravation! For a long time, such people have made me want to live in a cave in the middle of a hundred acres surrounded by a moat, but I know that the trouble would be only as far as the end of the driveway. So, you are right in that you have to "ignore what you can't control and stop what you can control".

This amused me to pieces - perhaps we are related? What is the saying? "With this family I don't need enemies." I agree on the cave/moat idea but would add alligators to the moat.

No, I think they moved to Long Island so they are presenting annoying someone there. And now they don't have homeowners insurance so good luck to the neighbors!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

This makes me unhappy - I know it happens but I don't like to think that friends of Police Officers get preferential treatment. As I said - I know it happens but what about everyone who doesn't have a connection - ?

I think the person referencing having friends on the police force wasn't suggesting special treatment just the police knew her uncle and the situation. Trust me police will arrest a dear friend who is breaking the law.

I am acquainted with the city ordinance enforcer, he was a city policeman when I was a teen--Yup, I know him! It is the same type deal--he has to come investigate and take photographs. I have never got a citation b/cs the problems are taken care of-ie: I close the garbage can lid. He is forced to deal with this petty crap when there are bigger fish to fry.

Today if she comes a snooping and only if there is someone not in my family around I am going to politely and carefully ask what the basis of her complaints are. Maybe if she is aware that I know that she is the complainer she will move onto someone else who really is endangering the welfare of the community or someone that will jump right on the legal band wagon. I just don't want to cross the line to where I am the harasser rather than the harassee and I am not sure where that line is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shellyjo68

I think the person referencing having friends on the police force wasn't suggesting special treatment just the police knew her uncle and the situation. Trust me police will arrest a dear friend who is breaking the law.

I am aquainted with the city ordinance enforcer, he was a city policeman when I was a teen--Yup, I know him! It is the same type deal--he has to come investigate and take photographs. I have never got a citation b/cs the problems are taken care of-ie: I close the garbage can lid. He is forced to deal with this petty crap when there are bigger fish to fry.

Today if she comes a snooping and only if there is someone not in my family around I am going to politely and carefully ask what the basis of her complaints are. Maybe if she is aware that I know that she is the complainer she will move onto someone else who really is endangering the welfare of the community or someone that will jump right on the legal band wagon. I just don't want to cross the line to where I am the harasser rather than the harassee and I am not sure where that line is.

The harasser and harasee (:D) problem certainly exists. I don't know either.

We don't have a Police force in my area, we rely on the State Police and they will tell you right out that they have bigger problems on their hands and, by the way, stop calling. Ends a lot of this neighborhood nonsense. Now Animal Control is a different deal - where I am if there's anything going on, people call Animal Control and he shows up, badge and gun and big truck.

I wonder - have you ever just asked her what her problem with you is, what you have ever done to her - hopefully by accident - that has upset or offended her?

Or is it beyond that - ?

I think she is just a lonely old busy body with nothing better to do. Her house is actually a block away from mine. I don't have loud parties or run a meth lab. I frequently have a lot of neighbor children in my yard--but they would be in someone's yard they all live there. When I first moved in I was friendly but she would just complain about this persons roof or that persons dog so I slowly went from a greeting to a yard wave and now avoiding her.

I do intend on asking her what is going on but I want to make sure someone other than just my daughter or husband is around. I don't want untruths flying.

Ooo here's something else you could try, kill her with kindness. You could make it a point to go and talk with her, but be really friendly and bring cookies or something. You can get your point across and its usually hard for people to be rude when someone's being really nice to them. So she might give you the time of day and you don't have to risk being the harassee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by justcurious55

ooo here's something else you could try, kill her with kindness. you could make it a point to go and talk with her, but be really friendly and bring cookies or something. you can get your point across and its usually hard for people to be rude when someone's being really nice to them. so she might give you the time of day and you don't have to risk being the harassee.

And get to the root of the problem---worth a try. Can't get much worse!:rolleyes: :) :D

Haha I can't believe I didn't think of it sooner myself either. Lol