Ask Me Help Desk - Chronic back pain since c-section/epidural Part 1

December 13, 2006

Hospital (recovery after c-section) - lots of back pain, especially in lower back, left of spine. I'll refer to this as the "spot". The spot felt like a huge knot the size of a nickel and was extremely painful. Especially when I laid on it Kept telling the nurses my back really hurt, especially in that spot. None of the nurses would pay attention to my complaint. They would just keep trying to make me lay down, even when I explained that the spot in my back hurt too badly. They would just tell me to lay down and rest. The whole time I was there I would tell each nurse about my pain. One nurse couldn't believe I was in so much pain. She asked if I had been taking any pain medication before I had the baby and maybe that's why they weren't working. I told her no and explained that it was my back that was hurting so bad, especially when I laid on it. I told her I could hardly tell I was in pain from the c-section. She just gave me more pain meds and made me lay down again. My back continued to hurt the whole time I was in the hospital.
-I have no recollection of them taking out the epidural, so I don't know if the pain started before or after. I don't understand why I can't remember something like that?-

1st two weeks after - pain was so bad I could hardly walk a few feet. I didn't have much help with the baby so it was really rough. I had a follow up w/OB-GYN. Told him about my back pain. Explained about the spot in my back. He did not examine it. He said my spine might be out of line and I should see a chiropractor.

Chiropractor examined my back and said my pelvis was dislocated so he put it back in place. He didn't say anything about the spot or examine it.. He also realigned my spine. After that the pain in my upper back was definitely better. But the pain in my lower back and the spot was still there. The pain was also in my hips. My hips felt like they were on fire and that the skin was ripping apart. When I would lay on my hips it was as if I were laying on barbed wire. I couldn't lay down comfortably any way I lay. I couldn't lay on the spot, and now I couldn't lay on either of my sides because my hips hurt so bad. I went to him 2-3 days a week for about 4 or 5 weeks. He would adjust my back each visit and then do the electrowhatver you call it. None of the stuff he did was helping. I told him each visit that it wasn't working. I told him the spot and my hips still hurt real bad. I told him I was scared it was from the epidural and I was afraid I would be like this forever. He said he didn't know anything about epidurals. I also told him I had to return to work soon and wouldn't be able to continue.

About one month after c-section/epidural- returned to OB-GYN for follow up. Told him about chiropractor and that my back was still real bad, especially in that spot. I told him I was really scared it was from my epidural. He did not examine it. He said some women still continue to have pain 6 months to a year later from their epidural. He would no longer prescribe me any pain meds. My back pain continued.

February 4, 2007- I returned to work even with all the pain I was in. I didn't have a choice, I now have a baby to support. I hurt the worst I ever had before. I thought I was going to collapse. But I knew I had to work through it because I would have to get used to it every day I worked from now on. By the end of the night however, I could barely stand. I went home and didn't feel good at all. I realized I had a fever. I decided to go to the hospital. I told them that ever since my c-section/epidural I have been having lots of pain in my lower back and hips. I told them about the spot in my back. They did not physically examine me. They took x-rays of my hips. They also took a urine sample. At this time, I did not know it yet but I had a staple in my stomach from the c-section. When the hospital doctor came to see me, she did not mention anything about the staple. She said there was nothing on the x-ray. She said I did however have a UTI. I have had UTI's before and I always know the second I have one. This time I had no clue. I had never had a fever with one either. She still did not physically examine my back. She gave me antibiotics and sent me home. I continued to push through the pain and continued working everyday.

A couple of months went by. The pain only kept getting worse. I made an appointment with my regular physician. Finally, someone who listened to me. He examined the spot I told him was the cause of all the rest of my pain. When he pushed in on it it hurt tremendously. He said a term for it I don't remember. He prescribed me some muscle relaxers and an anti-inflammatory/pain reliever. The only thing the medicine did for me was help me sleep at night. Which was good since I hurt so bad I couldn't get comfortable enough to sleep.

Around March or April 2007, I located a very weird "knot" or bump in my lower abdomen. It was a little freaky. The more I pushed on it, I realized it was kind of sharp and pokey. I was confused. I had my boyfriend feel it. He immediately said it was a staple. I felt it again and realized it absolutely was a staple. I called my OB-GYN. They had me come in. At my appointment they asked me why I was there. I told them because I felt a staple in my lower abdomen. The nurse felt it and exclaimed, yeah, it definitely was a staple. My OB-GYN came in and felt it. He said the same thing. He acted like it was no big deal, that it happened often. He said it was easy to remove. Just a small incision and he could pull it out. I was terrified. I definitely don't like needles let alone being cut open. But then he came back in and said he didn't have the tools necessary to take it out that day. He said to schedule an appointment to have it removed. I asked him if it would harm me in any way or make me sick. He said no. It wasn't at all harmful to me. When I went to leave, I stopped to make an appointment. The receptionist said they would call me in the next two weeks to schedule it. While I waited for them to call me, I got the flu or something. I honestly don't remember. I just remember I went to an appointment with my regular physician and asked him also about the staple and if it could harm me in any way being in there. He also said the staple wasn't harmful to me.

Around May, 2007?- I was hurting so bad I went to the hospital again hoping someone would do something. Anything. Tell me something. I told them everything I was feeling, the back pain, the spot in my back, the pain in my hips. I told them it all started in the hospital when I had my baby. They asked me if I had an epidural. I told them yes. They never mentioned it again. Again, nobody physically examined me. They did x-rays again of my lower back. Again, no mention of the staple. Which by this time I had completely forgot about. The OB-GYN office had never called me to make an appointment. Then I just got so busy w/work and my new baby. I guess since everyone said it wouldn't hurt me I just never thought about it. The hospital doctor said again there was nothing on the x-ray. He did not physically examine me. He gave me a prescription for pain meds for a week and sent me home.

I went back to my physician a short time after hoping there was something more he could tell me or give me more pain meds. I told him I was getting worse all the time. I told him again I was really scared the epidural did this to me and I was so scared that it would get worse to the point I couldn't walk anymore. He just smiled and didn't say anything. I think this visit he gave me a prescription of pain meds. Enough for a week or two? He also had me do a blood test to check for inflammation? Whatever he was testing for came back negative.

A few months later- My pain continued to get worse. It started going down my legs, in my thighs. I called my physician to see if I could get more pain meds. No one ever called me back. I called a couple of times then just gave up when I wasn't getting a response.

Continue to Part 2

You have posted this in its entirety twice - one should be pulled or they should be combined. Is this a legal question or a medical question?

So far I am only reading a medical problem -

On to part 2!

I'm sorry. I'm just desperate. I don't know what to do. No one will help me. I don't know how to pull off a question. If you can tell me, I will pull it off the law section. I'm new to this. I only found it doing research. I know my section is quite long, but I need any kind of feedback, opinion, advice I can get. I don't know what else I can do. It's been 17 months. I'm curious why you dismissed the law side so abruptly? Are you saying it's OK to leave a staple inside a patient? Then to not tell a patient that they have a staple inside them when they find it on the x-ray? If they did that, then it's quite possible they know they messed up my epidural and didn't want me to know. How do I know? They can't give me any other explanation. I just want answers. I just want to be fixed. I have a baby. I want to be able to do everything with him. I don't want to end up not walking. I don't want to miss anything in his life. I'm sorry about the inconvenince. Please tell me how to fix it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpannell26

I'm sorry. I'm just desperate. I don't know what to do. No one will help me. I don't know how to pull off a question. If you can tell me, I will pull it off the law section. I'm new to this. I only found it doing research. I know my section is quite long, but I need any kind of feedback, opinion, advice I can get. I don't know what else I can do. It's been 17 months. I'm curious why you dismissed the law side so abruptly? Are you saying it's ok to leave a staple inside a patient? Then to not tell a patient that they have a staple inside them when they find it on the x-ray? If they did that, then it's quite possible they know they messed up my epidural and didn't want me to know. How do I know? They can't give me any other explanation. I just want answers. I just want to be fixed. I have a baby. I want to be able to do everything with him. I don't want to end up not walking. I don't want to miss anything in his life. I'm sorry about the inconvenince. Please tell me how to fix it?

Well, the same thing is on the medical board - so what is your question - medical advice? Legal advice? Just a need to vent?

If your question is whether you have a medical malpractice case you'd better get to an Attorney's office, based on your State, because the statute is running. There's a strict burden of proof in medical malpractice but you seem to have documented things and if it is malpractice another Physician(s) will have to testify to the malpractice and that it caused your current problems.

I would be careful what you say about the "problem," including what you post, because your very words could come back to haunt you and hurt your case.

(The length of the posts, the whole passive/aggressive... "so you think it's all right ..." and "sorry about the inconvenience" language may be the very reasons you cannot get help in the medical community if that is your question.)

Excuse me? Who the hell are you? You threw a fit about my post. That is what the sorry was for, for you, since you seemed so bent out of shape. I was raised to be polite. I already said I would take one off. No, I wasn't just venting. I didn't just write this just to post on here. I had already written it. For myself, for my doctors. For a lawyer? I just pasted it on here. I apparently got the wrong impression that the people who came here were caring people trying to help others. I was hoping to find someone who may have been through what I have been through. I posted it in the law section because my family keeps telling me to get a lawyer. I thought I might get on opinion about it. Apparently I have missed the whole point of this web site. Or just happened to attract one rude, uncaring person instead.

Chillax...

She was only pointing out that you had the same question posted in two different areas. To get the best response, we need to know if you are looking for medical advice or legal advice.

Now, Judy is the one to give you the legal advice and I am the one to give you the medical advice.

So, which is it?

My opinion, and this might be helpful to you, or not, is that you are asking the wrong questions. You seem convinced that the pain is related to the epidural. A couple of doctors have told you that it isn't, and from your description of it, it seems unlikely to be connected. But you keep focusing on that, and ignoring any other information.

So, you need to change your approach. Doctors answer the questions that are presented to them. Instead of "how is this related to the epidural and birth", you need to ask "what's causing this". Even more important: "I have these symptoms, what could it be, and how do we treat it." For example, if you go to a new doctor, tell him "I have this strange soft knot in my back, and when it's pressed on, it hurts a lot." Do not discuss the rest of your symptoms, if you want to find out what the spot is. It may be related to the rest of the symptoms. It may not. If it is, that should be discovered when he examines the spot. If it's not, at least you will get that particular issue taken care of.

You wrote "[Primary physician] said a term for it I don't remember." That is probably the most critical part of the information that you need, since he seems to be the only person who has examined the spot. You may be able to just call the office and ask for him to repeat what he called it, so that you can do your own research. But you are not doing yourself any favors if you can't remember what the doctor has told you before and why he did or didn't do certain things. So take notes, or take someone with you to your appointments to take notes.

And, if a doctor makes recommendations and you do not follow up on them, then the doctor is going to think that you are either not in that much pain, just want attention, or that you aren't going to follow his instructions. None of that is going to get you good medical attention. Realistically, they aren't going to put more effort into your care than you are. Which means not rejecting things like nerve blocks out of hand.

Also keep in mind that pain is a very difficult symptom to diagnose. Things that are excruciating to one person are merely unpleasant to a different one. And pain killers are addictive, so doctors are used to patients exaggerating their pain levels in order to get more drugs. And sometimes patients have pain for no physically identifiable reason. There are ways of treating the pain, but I would rather a doctor discuss it with you than me.

1st post - I'm sorry. I'm just frustrated. I guess my legal advice question would be a question about the staple. I'm afraid I'm past the statute and wondered if that meant I wouldn't be able to get my OB-GYN to have it taken out for me. I have no idea where it could be anymore since no one mentioned it on my x-rays or MRI. It didn't occur to me that no one mentioned it until I was writing it all down, which is why I never asked. When I asked my neurologist about it he just waved his hand at me. I know everyone has their own opinions about the medical stuff, but what if it turned out to be from my epidural and I am going to be like this for the rest of my life? I get worse and worse all the time. I'm just so scared. I mostly just think about my baby and how I would support him if I got to the point I can't walk. I'm more worried about being able to do everything for and with him then I am about the pain. It's been 17 months. I'm used to having the pain.

2nd post -Thank you for your feedback. That's exactly what I'm interested in. Just some input, anything. But my first point is, most of the doctors haven't told me this isn't related to the epidural. They won't discuss it with me. They dodge the question and act as if I hadn't brought it up. All of which is why I do tend to believe it is related to the epidural and everyone is afraid to tell me. I haven't ignored any other information because they haven't given me any. Only my neurologist would finally say anything about the epidural. And he didn't say it couldn't be from it. He just said he wasn't sure if it could be. He had to do research. Talk with my OB-GYN and look closer at my MRI.

Second, I have done everything that you pointed out. I have asked "what could be causing this, what could it be". No one knows. I have told them all my symptoms and asked questions about them. I will take your advice of going to a new doctor and only telling him about the spot in my back. But I can feel it. I know that when it gets irritated is when all the rest of the pain starts. That's why I tell the doctors everything. And I tell them just like that. I guess it can be hard since no one else can feel what I feel. The pain is all the time now though, constantly.

The part about my Primary Physician; you're right on that part also. I should have wrote the term down. I guess I didn't because he said it "might be" and wasn't too convincing himself. I'm not good with medical termonology, so you're definitely accurate with that part. I'm planning on getting copies of all my medical records so I can look at them myself. And I'm definitely going to be taking notes from now on. I already knew that as I was trying to write everything down for myself.

I have really tried to do everything the doctors have recommended. It's not that I didn't want to do physical therapy. I know it's really hard to understand someone else's situation, but I really was too incredibly busy. My job is really important. I am a single mom and can't afford to lose my job. I am the manager and have a great deal of responsibility. That is why I have pushed through all the pain to continue to work to my fullest. There are days that I just really don't want to have to work anymore because of the pain and want to quit, but I can't. I need to do everything I can to support my baby and pay my bills (which there are a lot of, LOL). The second time they wanted me to do physical therapy I was no longer so busy at work so I was able to go. Unfortunately it didn't work.

About the nerve block; I haven't rejected it, yet. Just made a comment to my physcial therapist about it. I'm just so scared. If they could just assure me that this is definitely not from the epidural, if they could just tell me what it is that is wrong with me. Again, I know it's hard to put yourself in someone else's place, but this all started right after my epidural. No one has been able to tell me otherwise. Most of the doctors dodge the subject. All this is why it's in my head. I won't be able to get it out until they tell me something concrete. I know that's hard to understand from a different view point. But I'm the one who's been going through all of this.

Thank you for your input. I just needed to hear other people's thoughts or opinions. I just feel lost and aggravated not knowing anything. I will take eveything that you said to heart and apply it to my situation. Thanks again.

[QUOTE=dpannell26]1st post - I'm sorry. I'm just frustrated. I guess my legal advice question would be a question about the staple. I'm afraid I'm past the statute and wondered if that meant I wouldn't be able to get my OB-GYN to have it taken out for me. I have no idea where it could be anymore since no one mentioned it on my x-rays or MRI.

The statute of limitations refers to the time you have to take legal action; it has nothing to do with medical treatment.

Depending on your State it can range from 1 year after discovery of the "problem" to 5 years.

Yeah, but since it's going to require surgery, I meant would he still be liable to pay for the surgery.

Sorry for all your pain. I'm impressed that you have been able to be so level-headed.

Your treatment by the top minds on this site had been less than exemplary. Perhaps this just isn't their best day.

Go to a different doctor. When he smiles after telling you nothing, forget "politeness." Ask him again. Then ask again, and again. Tell him that you expect him to find and treat the problem. Just sit there and ask that he find the problem. Ask him why he hasn't examined the spot yet. Tell him that you have been to specialists and had no improvement.

Doctors go to many years of school. They charge for their services, plenty. Insist on getting those services that you are paying for. If the condition is permanent and cannot be treated, that diagnosis should not be reached through guesswork and pain pills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by simoneaugie

Your treatment by the top minds on this site had been less than exemplary. Perhaps this just isn't their best day.

Again, I wonder if you are asking legal advice or medical? I can usually answer most questions of a legal/medical nature, but I'm not sure of which path to take here.

Also, the posts are quite long, with little punctuation, and they are extremely hard to read.

And, no it hasn't been one of my best days. I have been busy with finals, pinning ceremony for nursing school (tornados included) and graduation from college tomorrow. So, you can say I am a little preoccupied.

Just something to think about... the cause could be the pregnancy or birth, and not the epidural. The site is off for the epidural. As pointed out, those are given into the spinal cord (layman's terms!), so anything resulting from it should be in the middle of your back, not off to one side. On the other hand, most pregnancies do not have this sort of side effect. And on the gripping hand, it is entirely possible that this has nothing to do with the delivery, and is just entirely coincidental. It is possible that you have had an underlying condition that wasn't triggered until the stress of labor. (The famous example of this is the story of the person who is curious about a red button in his stateroom on the Titanic, pushes it, and hears a terrible noise as the ship starts sinking. The man cries out "What have I done!" We, of course, know that the two events are entirely unrelated.)

Which is why the neurologist is your best bet in this case. This is his area of expertise, and I'm not about to second-guess him on what it could be. I will also say that what the cause is is secondary. After all, if you do find out it was related to the epidural, then what? It doesn't necessarily help you figure out how to make the pain go away. Vice versa.. you can treat the pain without ever figuring out what is causing it.

As to the staple, I'm not sure how concerned you should be about that. There are people wandering around with staples, wires, pins, etc. in them. This staple may need to come out. It may also do more harm than good to take it out. That's why I never try to give medical advice to anyone.

After I had my first child I developed a mass to the right of my spine low down on my back, that stays sore, it is about the size of a quarter. But I am not in severe pain from it... that was almost 19 years ago. Yes I had a epidural... they numbed me so good I did not know I had legs until about 4 hours after I had him. I have back problems but really don't think it is related to the epi.

As for the staple, I would want it gone, who knows all of this pain could be from your body trying to reject it. I have heard of sponges causing patients horrific problems until they were removed.

My heart goes out to you and I hope that you find someone that can help you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_9

Again, I wonder if you are asking legal advice or medical? I can usually answer most questions of a legal/medical nature, but I'm not sure of which path to take here.

Also, the posts are quite long, with little punctuation, and they are extremely hard to read.

And, no it hasn't been one of my best days. I have been busy with finals, pinning ceremony for nursing school (tornados included) and graduation from college tomorrow. So, you can say I am a little preoccupied.

First, congratulations! That's really exciting. Second, sorry about the post. I pasted it off my computer and it messed it up a bit. And sorry it's so long. I only wrote it to help myself remember everything. I hadn't intended on using it for this kind of purpose so it's not grammarly correct. When I stumbled across this site, I thought maybe if I posted it I might find other people that had similar problems. That's why I posted it in medical. I guess it's really not a question. I didn't realize everything had to be a direct question. I thougt it was for people to discuss situations also.

I posted it in law because I keep getting advice to obtain a lawyer. I thought if they were right, then if a lawyer read it they might see something that makes it a legal matter. In one of my posts, I stated how I AM really scared that this was caused by my epidural. Maybe there's a lawyer out there who has had a similar case and knows about this. I don't know. Isn't that the point? And then there was the staple. That's not right. You can't drop a staple in a patient and then act like it's no big deal. And also not let the patient know when you find it on an x-ray. That can't be right?

I guess that's it. I didn't really have a specific question. I was just hoping to find anyone who may have shared in my experiences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpannell26

Yeah, but since it's gonna require surgery, I meant would he still be liable to pay for the surgery.

If you're out of Statute, you are out of luck.

You would sue for your damages and then use that money to pay for additional surgery. You wouldn't sue for the cost of removing the staple. That's not how it works.

This started in December 2006; the staple was discovered in March or April 2007 - in some States the Statute is one year so if you are going to do something you've got to get started.

No Attorney will take your case without pulling your medical records, examining them, consulting with specialists and that takes time - so call an Attorney before you are for sure out of Statute.

[QUOTE=froggy7]Just something to think about... the cause could be the pregnancy or birth, and not the epidural. The site is off for the epidural. As pointed out, those are given into the spinal cord (layman's terms!), so anything resulting from it should be in the middle of your back, not off to one side. On the other hand, most pregnancies do not have this sort of side effect.

Is it possible that my siactic nerve could have gotten "caught" in my left hip? If I had to describe the pain in my hip, that's how I would have described it. Like something was pinched in it. I went once to a massage therapist. He was hispanic and didn't speak any english, but my boyfriend said he could feel my siatic nerve in my left hip.

I ask this because something very strange has happened just in the past day. At first, being on my crutches was hurting my back and left hip/leg really bad. Yesterday though, I noticed that it started hurting less. I also noticed that the pain in my lower back had completely moved! No joke. I can feel it now along my spine. If I touch the middle of my spine it is VERY tender. But only to the touch. I can not feel any pain in my "spot". The pain along my spine feels like the same it did when it was in the "spot". Except it doesn't hurt constantly. Only to the touch. I'm wondering if this is possible, maybe being on my crutches actually loosened it from my hip, so now it is back in place. I actually went to sleep with a little bit less pain and when I woke up, I didn't have the whole twisted back thing going on. Walking on my crutches this morning hardly hurts!

Any thoughts?