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I am having 13 new lights put in our kitchen/dining room area. It was decided that a new circuit should be used.
My contractor is putting in a 15 amp breaker, and running 14-2 from there. He will be using an existing "branch" off the 14-2 that is 12-2 for four of the lights. Does that create an issue?
The Breaker needs to be size for the smallest wire in circuit, Any #14 will need to be on a 15 amp breaker.
#12 can go on a 20 amp breaker.
#14 and #12 mixed will need a 15 Amp breaker
It does in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by JmacII
WHY is a "contractor" mixing wire sizes like this?? A real electrician would NOT do this.
It's a real problem if the four light branch circuit that he is referring to is sourced by a 20 amp breaker.
BTW, if he is putting in a separate 15 amp breaker, which means he is adding a branch circuit. Why is he messing with another branch circuit.
With a 15 amp light circuit you are allowed 1800 Watts, period. What is the wattage that the new 15 lamps will need?
I'd consider asking for a 2nd bid if I were you unless you are already bound by contract. Also make absolutely sure you contractor gets a electrical permit to do the work!
Other than it being sloppy, does it break code? Am I putting my house & family at risk?Quote:
Originally Posted by stanfortyman
We had a ceiling fixture in the middle of the kitchen on 12/2. Since that already went to the light switch, he was going to use that wire (instead of pulling new 14-2 through) and then run the four lights off that.Quote:
Originally Posted by donf
The total wattage needed on the circuit is 1000.
Mixing wire sizes is unprofessional at the least. However in your situation, if the 4 light branch circuit is powered by a 20 amp breaker and he wants to connect 14/2 to the 12/2 and leave the breaker at 20 amps, that is against code.
If the 4 lamp branch circuit is already 15 amps, he can connect the 14/2 up. However, if the number of lamps that he adds will raise the wattage over 1800 watts, he's might well create trouble down the road.
What we have is 15 amp breaker. From breaker to the switch 14-2. From the switch to the lights 12-2. Is that OK? Is is a short distance requiring 200 watts.Quote:
Originally Posted by donf
If the total wattage need will be 1200 watts and 1800 is the max, you should be fine.
I just do not understand the logic of using 12 to from the switch to the light. It should be 14/2 but never the less you should still be able to marry the 14/2 to the 12/2 and continue the circuit.
I guess it is just the easier way out. It would cause a lot more drywall to be torn out if he had to run 12-2 from the switch to the new lights.Quote:
Originally Posted by donf
I appreciate all your input.
The point is WHY was the 12/2 run in the first place? Why didn't he just continue with 14/2 like the rest of the circuit.Quote:
Originally Posted by JmacII
And please don't tell me it's what he had on the truck.
No, what you have is not illegal or unsafe. Just amateurish.
If #14 is at panel, just leave on the 15 amp breaker, and #12 is fine between the lights.
It is Overkill. But no problem.
I have used 3 ways as a Single pole switch in a bind.
If your Electrician had #12 on the truck and no #14, I could understand.
Don't tear up your walls.
I don't know why he ran the 14-2. If I was doing it myself I would have done 12-2. I wasn't on the spot "supervising/asking questions". It was like that when I got home from work.Quote:
Originally Posted by stanfortyman
I guess he forgot that he was going to use some existing wiring in the walls already, and didn't check to see what it was.
Sounds to me that the "contractor", I use that loosely here. May be trying to cut his cost. You need to check with your local codes to see if you can have more than ten items on one circuit. Here we can only have ten with an occasional twelve, but we can not use 14/2 we must use at least 12/2 w/g. Check your local codes.
I don't think was a matter of cost, especially since he used more expensive wire to finish the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by MOWERMAN2468
I just think he probably ran out of 14/2. Kind of a shame actually.
It happens I guess.
Mower, your ten item code may very well be, but that is not a widespread code by any stretch.
Mowerman,
10 outlets is a rule of thumb, not a code requirement.
With respect to lighting, I believe you can have as many lights as is reasonable, however the wattage limits are 1800 for 15 Amp and 2400 for 20 Amp.
Lighting is not calculated in the same way as outlets. I believe that the suggested wattage for outlets is around 1500, but I'm not absolute about that.
I will tell you how it works. There is nothing wrong with feeding the lights that are 12/2 and running a home run circuit of 14/2. Since #14 is the minimum size of wire that can be used for a 15Amp breaker. If he installed a 20Amp breaker, this would then be illegal as 14/2 is no longer able to withstand 20A and therefore the hazard would exist PLUS 20Amp is not allowed to be installed in a residential setting anyway using this configuration. The real issue here is the amount of lights he has on one circuit. Normally (In Canada-Check with your local codes) we legally can only run 12 outlets per 15Amp circuit. This means receptacles and lights. Switches are not included in this count as they are not a "load". He has 14 lights installed on the circuit, and this is a code violation.
We JUST went over this with Mower. In the US this is NOT a widespread code. Very few municipalities place these restrictions on circuits.Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzman
Hence my statement (Check with your Local codes)...Quote:
Originally Posted by stanfortyman
Yeah, I saw that. Mower said the same thing. :p
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