My ex and I split up when our child was just 3. At the time I had a custody order drawn, I was not thinking about the future. I didn't plan for what would happen when he went to school, for example. Now my ex gets him over night on a school night each week, even though we live in separate districts. My son is always tired and irritable the next day. His grades are fine though. When he started school my ex agreed to put him to bed no later than 9 pm, but it was only a verbal agreement of which I have no evidence. However, my son has been up until 10 or 10:30, sometimes even later on school nights he spends with his dad, of which I have one instance of physical proof, the rest are based on my son's words. I have tried to modify the custody order we have to get him to bring back our son on school nights, but he refuses to sign, always demanding something more no matter how much I have already agreed to compromise. However, if we go before a judge, I know all is up for grabs. He sees my son twice a week, over night, for a total of about 40 hours per week. If I fight him in court, will he be awarded more time (or days to make up for time lost when our child should be sleeping anyway)? Also, I have had full legal custody since our agreement was ordered by the judge. Will I lose that? We never fought it out the first time, I had the papers drawn by a lawyer and he simply signed on the dotted line. Am I wrong to want my child in bed by a certain time? Can I force the issue even if he is still ordered to stay at his dad's during the week?:confused:

I think you should just call him and talk to him, explain that your son needs to get some more sleep because he is grouchy and tired if he's not in bed at a certain time. I don't think you're over-reacting, your parenting style just differs from his, but it should be an easily solvable situation if your ex is cooperative. Perhaps he doesn't realize the child needs more sleep because he doesn't see him later on after the fact, or perhaps he forgot about what you asked. I would say give him the benefit of the doubt unless it continues on after you talk to him.

I agree with Charlotte. As long as his grades aren't suffering then I wouldn't worry about it so much. How old is your son? Mine are 9 and 10 and stay up until 10 with no real problems, however every child is different.

I think that if you just call your ex and point out that you feel 10 too late for him right now, and ask your ex if he would agree to put him to bed by 9 or 930 on the weekdays, you might get a more positive response than filing papers and taking it to court.

You could take it one step further and put yourself in his shoes, maybe your ex just wants spend more time with his son and keeps him up later when he has him to do so. It's only a time issue anyway because as your son gets older he won't be grouchy so much and will be staying up later.

I don't think it's about spending more time with our son (who is 9). He gathers with his friends and some family at a local bar every time our son is there, leaving our son with virtually nothing to do for 2-3 hours on a weeknight, and sometimes longer on weekends. So I don't think he is spending any real "time" with him anyway. I have brought up the fact that our son needs more sleep, probably more than a dozen times in the last two years, and I have explained how miserable he is the day I get him back. My ex sees it as my problem, not his. He has been late getting our son home in the morning before school at times as well. He always has an excuse, but usually it boils down to the fact that he didn't get up early enough to give himself or my son ample time to get out the door.

He has been telling my son to lie to me about how long they are at this bar, and what time my son goes to bed. Is there anything I can do to make sure that even if my ex doesn't want to spend time actually building a relationship to our son that he at least allows him to get to bed early enough to make it through the next day?

Other than your son being a little irritable the next day, is this something that is actually hurting him? Or are you just looking for things to nag about? Like, is he telling your son to lie because your son wants to stay up hanging out with him but is worried "mom will get mad if she knows i was up after 9" so your ex is saying "let's just not tell her."? In any case, its clear your ex is not concerned about how late your son is staying up. It's no use trying to talk to him about it anymore because obviously he doesn't listen (would you listen if he started telling you, "when our son is with you you need to do this and that because i say so and thats the rule in my house."? I think not.) if you really feel its necessary to change your son's entire schedule then do it but unless there's more you're not telling about this seems like a rather minor problem that you're making into a bigger issue than it really is.

Just wondering, if you're worried about your son getting to school on time the net morning why not just make your ex take him straight to school?

Do you have any children? If so, how would you feel about them spending hours in a bar every time they were with the other parent? I won't lie and say I've never taken my kids to a bar, but we go to eat, and yes, sometimes I have a beer with dinner, but we leave as soon as we've finished our food. I don't hang out with other adults and leave the kids to their own thing. Our son has expressed the desire to stay home with me, and I have to take him anyway. I've asked him if he has ever talked to his dad about how it would be more fun to go home and play together instead. He says he has but dad doesn't care. You may call it nagging, I call it parenting. I don't tell him what to do. I ask him to consider our son. It is obvious to me that he is hurting their relationship, but dad seems oblivious. I want my child to enjoy the time he spends with his father. How fair is it that not only does he dislike going before he leaves because he knows what to expect (and is rarely wrong) but he also has no recourse? He looks to me for help and I can't offer any. Now I am the bad guy for making him go, and for not "fixing" things. Seriously, do you really think it is OK for a 9 year old to be in a bar for 3 hours watching his dad drink? If so, we clearly have different ideas of what makes a good parent.

Where I live, a child is not allowed in a bar. Anyone under the age of 21 is not allowed. All that aside, no, a nine year old waiting for dad to finish his 'buddy time" is not good. What does the dad hope to teach the son? Is what the boy learning helpful? There are some good things to pick up on, even in a bar. But good self care is not being taught.

Well now, that's more that you hadn't told. You didn't say anythng before about your son coming to you and saying that he doesn't want to go. Because that does change everything. If it goes to court and you tell the judge all of this (that includes that your son has told you he doesn't want to go to dad's!) it wouldn't make any sense at all for the judge to give your ex more time with him.

Mariposa, get over yourself. You only gave us part of your story and I told you what I thought. Judykay was right to call you out on your response. You're the one who is being touchy. If you're so confident in your opinions then why are you on here arguing with anyone who disagrees with you instead of with a judge about your son's bedtime and whereabouts? If this is such an issue for you then go do something about it instead of carrying on an online drama.

You posted asking for and answer, we gave you one, or two. Then you changed or added to the story. Responses were given. You didn’t like the answers. I have learned one thing about the board over the last year, the people here tell you like it is, they don’t just tell you what you want to hear. Its one of the things that I love about this board the most.

In your above post you say “I don't know you, or what you do as a parent if you even are one, I simply asked if you and other readers thought it was ok to take a kid to the bar every single time you actually had the chance to be with him and stated that I don't think it is right, no matter what argument you (or anyone else) gives.”

Then why ask at all?

I have two boys. They are now 10 and 11. They have no relationship with their father. So I know it’s sad that you have to watch it crumble with your son. You know your son is hurting at the loss of his father and there is nothing you can do. I tell you that because I know it’s true. There is just nothing you can do other than be there for him. Honestly it’s not your responsibility to fix the father/son relationship anyway, that’s on him. Your son will see that.

No one here can answer why a parent would take their child to a bar every night they have them. Only your ex could and I’m sure that he doesn’t see anything wrong with it. I will tell you that some bars, at least in my area, are not just bars but restaurants too. Kelly’s is a “Family Bar and Grill” they advertise it that way, so does Outback Steakhouse, TGIFriday’s, I’m sure there are more. Kelly’s has gone so far as to put video games in the back. I have been in there and I have seen mothers and fathers both drinking and their kids in a booth coloring. Personally I don’t think its right, but there are people who do, your ex being one of them.

All I can say is if you don’t like it, then take your ex back to court and have the visitation reviewed, don’t change the days or the amount of time your ex is with your son just ask the Judge to rule that there will be no drinking alcohol or be in those types of establishments, maybe name a few, while the child is with the parent. Remember all rulings go both ways, so it wouldn’t just be for him but you too. While you are there have it decided if the child doesn’t want to go he doesn’t have to. I know that Judges hear that kind of thing, because I have both in my divorce decree and they Judge hear both sides before ruling. Now the Judge did rule that my sons have to tell their father personally that they don’t want to go, I can’t just tell my ex. She figured that if they really didn’t want to go then they would stand up and say it themselves. The only problem I have is it seems to have my ex stay away longer. They might go with him for a day then the next time it would be no thanks, then my ex stays away for months. So that has its drawbacks too.

I hope that you were able to get the insight you were looking for.

I think your answer is to go to court, and let a judge decide this thing. Its obvious you two can't work together. That's sad as the child suffers while the adults can only fight. A judge will see who has the clean hands, or not.

[QUOTE=mariposa11]I have tried to modify the custody order we have to get him to bring back our son on school nights, but he refuses to sign, always demanding something more no matter how much I have already agreed to compromise.


Only a Court can modify a Court order. You cannot and if you try it will not be enforceable. If you have proof, go to Court.

I can say that if my ex had our child in a bar for any amount of time, I would be seriously concerned. While my child was younger, when she was with her father, I worried constantly. My mother told me something that has helped, and it sounds very caloussed but, "it probably won't hurt the kid." I have had to go back to that several times and remind myself that although my ex made very poor choices, and hopefully none of them have had lasting effects, I could not control his choices during their visits. You need to hang in there, pray for your child's safety while he's gone, and just ride it out. The more you protest, the more you argue with your ex, the more he'll push and try to make you miserable. Just be as kind and patient as possible and you will all get through this. You cannot change another person's behavior. The other thing to do is be available ANYTIME to your ex so that he can drop your child back off to you when he gets tired of being a father. Make sure you offer in a very kind way to make yourself available to even pick up your child at the bar. Offer nicely and without condemnation and he may very well take you up on it. I did that very thing, and it saved my daughter from non-kid friendly situations and worked really well. You just have to be able to do it without making him wrong. I am sorry for your situation. I have been there as well.

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Originally Posted by mariposa11

first judykay, the only person I see getting offended here is you. Maybe you're a little touchy. I didn't "attack" anyone. I've seen your profile, and for someone who whines about every negative dot they get, you sure to get defensive and irate easily. second, I said our son doesn't want to be there. That is what most of my last post was about. I said his father was doing harm to their relationship. What part of that do you not get? You over-reacted to my question and took it as personally as possible. I don't know you, or what you do as a parent if you even are one, I simply asked if you and other readers thought it was ok to take a kid to the bar every single time you actually had the chance to be with him and stated that I don't think it is right, no matter what argument you (or anyone else) gives. Why spend time with your child in a smoke filled atmosphere full of regular drunks? It's sad and pathetic and completely selfish. I don't need your greenie to justify my feelings. I know I am not wrong. My son begs me to let him stay home with me so as not to have to go to the bar and wait on his dad to be ready to leave. And I can't help him at all. Maybe if you had a child and were powerless to help him and had to sit back and watch his relationship to his dad crumble, you would understand. Then again, maybe you just wouldn't get it period.

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Perhaps the "is it all right to take a child to a bar" question should be on a discussion board, not a legal board - this is not a legal question, it's a debate about parenting skills.

Pardon me if I posted in the "wrong" place. I am new to the forum, but I certainly had not attacked anyone when posing a question along with my concerns. I think it is only natural to keep a description brief and then elaborate based on the responses you get. When you meet someone for the first time, do you give them a rundown of your life story? Of course not. You give information as it becomes relevant. Sorry if it displeases you that I don't provide every detail at the start, but I am not seeking friends, just help. Apparently, I can't get that from you. I'm sure I'll manage. After all, there are thousands of places you can go on the web for anonymous help where people are actually helpful and pleasant instead of shallow and judgmental. Thanks for nothing to the bulk of you. For those who were considerate, I truly do thank you for taking the time to respond. Oh, ps, to Judy, the EXPERT!! Ha! I'll have you know, CPS has been involved with my ex regarding our son, and not by my involvement. They showed up at my door with questions about him. So before you run off dismissing people, maybe you should re-evaluate what makes you such an expert.

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Originally Posted by mariposa11

Pardon me if I posted in the "wrong" place. I am new to the forum, but I certainly had not attacked anyone when posing a question along with my concerns. I think it is only natural to keep a description brief and then elaborate based on the responses you get. When you meet someone for the first time, do you give them a rundown of your life story? Of course not. You give information as it becomes relevant. Sorry if it displeases you that I don't provide every detail at the start, but I am not seeking friends, just help. Apparently, I can't get that from you. I'm sure I'll manage. After all, there are thousands of places you can go on the web for anonymous help where people are actually helpful and pleasant instead of shallow and judgmental. Thanks for nothing to the bulk of you. For those who were considerate, i truly do thank you for taking the time to respond. Oh, ps, to Judy, the EXPERT!!! Ha! I'll have you know, CPS has been involved with my ex regarding our son, and not by my involvement. They showed up at my door with questions about him. So before you run off dismissing people, maybe you should re-evaluate what makes you such an expert.

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I'm sure you realize your name calling post was pulled due to the content -

You don't want to hear... what you don't want to hear. That's what it all comes down to. Lots of people gave you good, sound advice - you just don't want to hear it. Unfortunate that with all your accusations against your ex someone ELSE had to call in CPS... because you didn't.

(I notice on your profile that you have misspelled your "profession" and that causes me doubt your truthfulness in general.)

Well if its only natural to elaborate based on the responses then don't get all touchy when people reply based on the little information you give and ask questions. And doesn't this look bad for you now that CPS is involved and not by your involvement because if someone else had enough reason to call CPS then clearly there was something wrong and now it looks like you just stood by doing nothing. Which from what you've told us is close to what you did- you stood by whining and arguing with us. Or where you actually talking to a lawyer this whole time to go back to court and it just wasn't time to give the rundown of your life's story?