Humans by nature need more to be motivated to do good.Not everyone has it in them to be self motivated when they themselves are having a hard life.
At these points those who believe have the promise of the Hereafter and the Almighty to turn to and to do good to please Him.

Not all of us has the means of giving to the needy,or charities or other organisations,but we all have kind words and good deeds in abundance.

Doing good as far as I believe is not just doing things for others outside of the family,but it begins with oneself and one's family.The kind word we have with our loved ones,the food we prepare with love,all these tiny things done with a sincere heart are good deeds.
The striving we do to be good,the anger we hold in check,the outbursts we hold back,each of these has a chance to be counted as good deeds.

I have seen many a non believer ask that do we as believers need the religious guidelines we have.
As a believer in an Almighty God,I would say yes.This does not mean that those who do not believe are bad or do not know right from wrong.

The guidelines I follow are there because human standards vary from person to person according to their individual views,but having a set of guidelines of right and wrong, it brings all humans on one standard set of rules.Who better to send guidelines to humans than our creator who knows our flaws.

And yes I do believe that the universal guidelines we speak of among believers and non believers are from the same source,the reason why everyone has it in them to know right from wrong.
But we must remember that not all are made aware of these rules,depending on in what situation they grew up in,it gets distorted and flawed.

We cannot say a believer does more good than a disbeliever because we are not with one another 24/7 taking down the deeds,nor do we know one another's hearts,to see whether we are sincere or not.
And we cannot judge a person's fate as we do not know how each of us will die. We may change as time passes, our hearts change and in the end the only judge is the Almighty.

As a believer my hope is that within me is the sincere faith that makes me who I am,my hope is that as time passes my faith increase,every time I see a wonderous thing in nature that I may remember the Creator of it all,that in times of trial I find the strength to bear with patience,and to remember the favours the Almighty has bestowed upon me.
To be in happiness and sorrow,health and illness, ups and downs,a firmbeliever.

In the end I pray for peace,complete peace which comes only beyond this worldly life...

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Humans by nature need more to be motivated to do good.

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WHY do you CLAIM that, and on WHAT do you base your CLAIM?
.
I know a lot of people who are motivated to do good WITHOUT any (further) stimulation, religious or not.
But I agree with you that many people seem to need the stimulation by religious support to BE good (while almost always even religion fails to produce results). Actually I doubt if one needs religion to do good. If "doing good" is not part of your standard lifestyle, religion won't help neither, as at best any improved results will be based on wrong reasoning.
.

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Not everyone has it in them to be self motivated when they themselves are having a hard life.

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A hard life is no valid reason for NOT being "good".
.

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Not all of us has the means of giving to the needy,or charities or other organisations,but we all have kind words and good deeds in abundance.

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This suggests that doing good is mainly a "means" based activity. I can guarantee you it is not. One can do a lot of "good" without any money or value involved. Think about the value of human and moral support, the will to assist where and when needed - like a friendly word and/or a helping hand, like youngsters showing some respect for the older in full busses and metro by offering them their seats, etc.
.

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

I have seen many a non believer ask that do we as believers need the religious guidelines we have. As a believer in an Almighty God,I would say yes.

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How sad that you herewith admit that you - like the donkey and the carrot - need an incentive to be a good human being.
.

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

We cannot say a believer does more good than a disbeliever because we are not with one another 24/7 taking down the deeds,nor do we know one another's hearts, to see whether we are sincere or not.

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With that I agree. But note that the believer seems to need religion to do good, while the non-believer does that automatically without any incentive. Which of the two is the sincere one here, the one truly inspired?
.

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

In the end I pray for peace,complete peace which comes only beyond this worldly life...

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Why not peace here and now? Why that totally unnecessary shifting to "the hereafter"?
People have been praying for peace for eons. Unless humanity makes it their lifestyle to really become peacefull in mind, all that praying is meaningless and will lead to nothing.
What is needed is to strengthen the fineer thin layer of moral justification for our deeds, and put the responsibility of our actions there where it belongs : on our own shoulders.
What is needed also is that we stop being so greedy - specially those in the western society - and share all available resources evenly over all of humanity, instead of what is happening now in a world dominated by greed and selfinterest above anything else.
.
One does not need religion to be or become a "good human being". All we need is to learn to stop being so greedy and selfish.
.
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by marvin_082500

Credendovidis, You believe in " To see is to Believe"

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At least I do not believe in what someone else claims to be true, claims that always lack any objective support.
.
Why do you not react to the points I made in my previous post? You know I am right, don´t you?
.
Look : for me nobody has to defend his-her religious views. But at least be honest when you claim something to be a fact, as I have never seen any religious claim or `one and only truth´ to be supported by objective evidence. All that support such claims is the personal BELIEF of the one who states the claim.
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Humans by nature need more to be motivated to do good.Not everyone has it in them to be self motivated when they themselves are having a hard life.
At these points those who believe have the promise of the Hereafter and the Almighty to turn to and to do good to please Him.

Not all of us has the means of giving to the needy,or charities or other organisations,but we all have kind words and good deeds in abundance.

Doing good as far as I believe is not just doing things for others outside of the family,but it begins with oneself and one's family.The kind word we have with our loved ones,the food we prepare with love,all these tiny things done with a sincere heart are good deeds.
The striving we do to be good,the anger we hold in check,the outbursts we hold back,each of these has a chance to be counted as good deeds.

I have seen many a non believer ask that do we as believers need the religious guidelines we have.
As a believer in an Almighty God,I would say yes.This does not mean that those who do not believe are bad or do not know right from wrong.

The guidelines I follow are there because human standards vary from person to person according to their individual views,but having a set of guidelines of right and wrong, it brings all humans on one standard set of rules.Who better to send guidelines to humans than our creator who knows our flaws.

And yes I do believe that the universal guidelines we speak of among believers and non believers are from the same source,the reason why everyone has it in them to know right from wrong.
But we must remember that not all are made aware of these rules,depending on in what situation they grew up in,it gets distorted and flawed.

We cannot say a believer does more good than a disbeliever because we are not with one another 24/7 taking down the deeds,nor do we know one another's hearts,to see whether we are sincere or not.
And we cannot judge a person's fate as we do not know how each of us will die. We may change as time passes, our hearts change and in the end the only judge is the Almighty.

As a believer my hope is that within me is the sincere faith that makes me who I am,my hope is that as time passes my faith increase,every time I see a wonderous thing in nature that I may remember the Creator of it all,that in times of trial I find the strength to bear with patience,and to remember the favours the Almighty has bestowed upon me.
To be in happiness and sorrow,health and illness, ups and downs,a firmbeliever.

In the end I pray for peace,complete peace which comes only beyond this worldly life...

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Amazing. In name, we have different belief systems, but the more I read what you believe, the more in common I see.

Very well put Firm.

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

WHY do you CLAIM that, and on WHAT do you base your CLAIM?

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Personal experience with friends,family,work etc.Humans need the feel good factor for doing something,whether it be a feeling of satisfaction or praise or any other little thing as motivation.
Such motivation may not always be there,people are sometimes not appreciative of helping hands or even rude at times or even think it their due.Such times the motivation is there for those who believe that the Almighty knows what is in our hearts.

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

I know a lot of people who are motivated to do good WITHOUT any (further) stimulation, religious or not.

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I did not say there aren't any...

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

But I agree with you that many people seem to need the stimulation by religious support to BE good (while almost always even religion fails to produce results). Actually I doubt if one needs religion to do good. If "doing good" is not part of your standard lifestyle, religion won't help neither, as at best any improved results will be based on wrong reasoning.

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If doing is good is not part of our standard lifestyle a believer will try harder to make oneself be good.

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

A hard life is no valid reason for NOT being "good".

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No it is not,but when one is scraping by to get the basic necessities,it is that much harder to smile and be kind and happy.Unlike the one who has the basics and more,who might find it easier to be cheery and kind and helpful(which doesn't always happen either).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Think about the value of human and moral support, the will to assist where and when needed - like a friendly word and/or a helping hand, like youngsters showing some respect for the older in full busses and metro by offering them their seats, etc.

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Wasn't I saying the same thing?

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

With that I agree. But note that the believer seems to need religion to do good, while the non-believer does that automatically without any incentive. Which of the two is the sincere one here, the one truly inspired?

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I do not mind being judged by humans to be flawed or un-sincere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Why not peace here and now? Why that totally unnecessary shifting to "the hereafter"?
People have been praying for peace for eons. Unless humanity makes it their lifestyle to really become peacefull in mind, all that praying is meaningless and will lead to nothing.

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If you have complete peace in this world,congratulations! You are one of the few.
I am working for a life I believe exists beyond this world,if I am wrong I have nothing to worry about,but if you are wrong... good luck to you.
You like to think that praying will lead to nothing,I believe otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

One does not need religion to be or become a "good human being". All we need is to learn to stop being so greedy and selfish.

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Oh and when you have got everyone on the same level of not being greedy and selfish,do let me know:)

Another thing... I am not into debating just so you know.
I don't have to prove anything to any human regarding my beliefs.I believe it is the truth and I follow it to the best of my abilities.

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Originally Posted by inthebox

Amazing. In name, we have different belief systems, but the more I read what you believe, the more in common I see.
Very well put Firm.

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Thank you.
We are from the same Source and unto Him is our final return:).

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Oh and when you have got everyone on the same level of not being greedy and selfish,do let me know:)

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Well that's part of the problem - the greedy and selfish are equally divided up between the believers and the non-believers.

That's true NK,all of us are human.

... I hope and pray that I don't become a hypocrite.

A hypocrite as in doing deeds to show off to others that I am good or to get praise from people or for people to know that I am doing something good.

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

.. Another thing...I am not into debating just so you know.
I dont have to prove anything to any human regarding my beliefs.I believe it is the truth and I follow it to the best of my abilities. ...

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Than why did you post this in "religious discussions"??
;)

Firmbeliever :
What did you actually intend to say with your topic statement?
As far as I can see it was not a real question.
;)

Firmbeliever I see nothing wrong with your post. You are only showing your faith in a nonjudgemental way. I would think that most nonchristians, such as myself would respect that. I for one thank you for not trying to make me feel like I have horns rising from my head.

I believe that topics can be discussed without a question asked. I know that I have posted my opinions or a story on the dog board simply because I wanted to make people aware of a particular situation. Three that come to mind is Michael Vick and his dog abuse and dogs being left in foreclosed homes and I often post about animals and the dangers of the holidays to them... No question asked. No one has ever shot me down over that or asked that I not post simply because I did not include a question with the post.. I don't know why firm should be treated any differently.

When I read this post I thought that she was telling people of no faith or little faith that she does not consider them to be damned sinners just because they do not belong to a certain faith or they do not have themselves labeled. Unlike some of the religious post that I have read. Maybe she was extending the olive branch.

So this is forum of daily affirmations now?

I did not say that but a lot of people start post and they don't ask a question. So why jump her rear because it just happens to be in the religious section. I am not a bible thumper but I don't see why cred had to pick her post apart.

He has a habit of picking things apart, not sure what the motivation is there. I'm just worried that we'll get a deluge of threads starting for the simple fact of stating something we believe versus asking a question looking for replies.

This is the ASKMEHELP board, isn't it?
A Q&A board with the intention to ask and answer questions, isn't it?
And a (religious) discussions board is to allow a discussion to develop based on the topic question, isn't it?
;)

And you are the AMHD police? If it bothered you so bad that a question was not asked why participate in such an obvious disregard to the rules why not let one of the mods take care of it?

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Originally Posted by bushg

and you are the AMHD police? If it bothered you so bad that a question was not asked why participate in such an obvious disregard to the rules why not let one of the mods take care of it?

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I did not (dis) QUALIFY Firmbeliever's topic at all.
I asked him here literally :

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What did you actually intend to say with your topic statement?

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Why these long toes and all that criticism?
;)

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Firmbeliever :
What did you actually intend to say with your topic statement?
As far as I can see it was not a real question.
;)

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Hi Cred,
I am a SHE... just so you know:).
Yes, this is the religious "discussion board".

As I said before I do not do debates and I give information when people ask for it or if I think it is required under the circumstance, otherwise I believe that each person searching for the truth will ultimately find it or they will live in their current beliefs and die in the same belief.

This topic I started was due to many reasons,one is that I wanted to put my thoughts in here without getting anyone riled up.;)
I have seen believers accuse the non-believers many time the same as non believers do to believers (and I am talking about all religions).
Another thing I came across was someone (sorry can't remember who) said that non-believers were raising the devil's children (or something to that effect).
Sometimes I want to say so much on religious topics but I refrain from saying it to avoid debate.And I also do not want to debate with the Christians and Jews specially because I believe in their books being revealed from the same source as the book I believe in.And by calling false what is in their books I might be calling false the word of the Almighty.

As far as I believe no one alive at this moment can guarantee that they will be heaven or hell after death. Or people cannot predict what the future will bring or how much faith we will have in a few years.
It is up to us believers to live everyday as righteous people, and to tread the true path to peace and pray for the light of true guidance to brighten our paths.
As for those who do not believe, they too have their choices of whether to believe or not and they alone are responsible for the choices they make because in the end I believe that each of us will be questioned as to what we did in this life (sorry Cred I know you don't believe this:)…).

I do not blame the Christians for their urge to help people, it is in us believers to want to show the truth to others the same way non believers like to explain to us that what we believe is not fact(in their thinking).

As I said before, I say something(religious wise) only if I think it will benefit someone.
I do believe that I am following the truth and I also believe that anyone and I mean anyone could change in an instant. I do not believe that however much I try to change anyone's faith it will change until the moment comes when it seems right to them and they are guided I believe by the Almighty towards the light.

I believe in the Almighty and trust Him completely that if he wished for me to be the one to help a person be guided then it will happen, but I do believe that I cannot force anyone to believe, I can only help them see what I believe.

If it were up to us humans to make people guided, it would have happened each time a messenger was sent, all the people would have believed but it has never happened. Some believe some don't.

I know that disbelievers in what I believe might think me a fool for believing in what I believe, but this does not affect my belief or faith in what I believe.

"To you be your religion, and to me my religion”Quran-109:06

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Originally Posted by bushg

Firmbeliever I see nothing wrong with your post. You are only showing your faith in a nonjudgemental way.

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Thank you for your support.

.

Instead of "believers" and "non-believers" I suggest "religious" and "non-religious" because I certainly have beliefs... just not in your gods.

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Hi Cred,
I am a SHE...just so you know:).

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Thanks for telling me that, Firm!
And I am a HE!
:D
.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Yes, this is the religious "discussion board".
As I said before I do not do debates and I give information when people ask for it or if I think it is required under the circumstance, otherwise I believe that each person searching for the truth will ultimately find it or they will live in their current beliefs and die in the same belief.

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Precisely the reason for me asking you for your reasons to post this topic. If you do not like to debate, than why open a topic which only intention is to discuss what you posted as topic starter?
.

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

It is upto us believers to live everyday as righteous people, and to tread the true path to peace...

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No! That is up to every human being. Theist or non-theist. I doubt there is any "true" path to peace. But it should be everyone's goal.
.

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

As for those who do not believe, they too have their choices of whether to believe or not and they alone are responsible for the choices they make ...

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With all respect I disagree with that 100%.
If you check topic "Credendovidis : I believe it as soon as I see it" you will see that I explained there that believing (religion) is NOT a case of making a choice. Just as for you it seems impossible to believe anything else than you do, that also goes for non-believers. There simply is no choice : the religious belief option is no valid alternative to a non-theist. There is no choice, and it is no choice.
.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

I do not blame the Christians for their urge to help people, it is in us believers to want to show the truth to others the same way non believers like to explain to us that what we believe is not fact (in their thinking).

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The difference is that I never try to convince others that I am "right", but that it always are Christians who tell me I am wrong. WRONG? They only BELIEVE themselves that they are correct. There is no proof for anyone being right in this. I can't. You can't. Nobody can!
It is all based on BELIEF!
Next to that : If I tell a Christian that I do not need his/her advice in this, that should be "it" for him/her. All they should do is spread the word. Not push it forcibly through my throat!
.

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

I know that disbelievers in what I believe might think me a fool for believing in what I believe, but this does not affect my belief or faith in what I believe.

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How wrong you are with that. Why would you be a fool to believe in religion? It is your right to believe whatever suits you best. You are not a fool to do so.
But neither is a non-believer a fool to believe whatever he/she believes or prefers.
As there is no "right" or "wrong" in that respect, the position by either believers and non-believers is equal. Qualifying non-believers "wrong" - as so many Christians do here on this board - THAT is wrong.
Unless of course someone can PROVE with objective support who is right.
But as that did not happen the last 20 thousand years, I do not expect anyone to stand up now and perform that trick...
.
There even is a topic on the board by someone trying to get support to "prove" that the Bible is "factual". Now : that is foolish. If he could, it would no longer be belief! But of course nobody can do that.
.

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

"To you be your religion, and to me my religion”Quran-109:06

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Freedom of and freedom from religion. Combined with separation from Church and State. (Secular Humanism)
;)