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Hello:
Is the surge working, or is it our pocketbooks?
In my view, the only reason the Iraqi's aren't attacking each other (or us) any more is because we're paying them.
I don't know. I don't think we've ever won a war this way. I don't think we CAN win a war this way. You do?
excon
First of all : nice to see you again! (sarnian here).Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
This "war" can not be won. It can never be won. Remember Vietnam. Remember Afghanistan.
All that happens is the increasing numbers of victims at both sides. Many MANY INNOCENT victims for every killed terrorist. Tens of thousands of INNOCENT children and females murdered by hatred and self-interest.
Thousands of people on crutches or in wheelchairs for the rest of their life. Both there and in the US.
Iraq - a senseless and illegal war from the start.
Afghanistan - a senseless and unwinnable war from the start.
Did Vietnam not teach the US anything?
:confused:
I think you have a bit of a point that part of the reason for the surge success is that we have purchased some allies. Have we ever done that before ? Was there a quid pro quo in forming the alliance to execute Operation Desert Storm ? I think so . Was there a payoff for getting the Northern Alliance on our side in the Afghan war . I bet there was. Did we acquire a debt to France during the Revolution ? Yup . Did the Marshall plan secure the victory of WWII ? You bet !
Is the surge working ? According to Carolyn Glick of The Jersualem Post ,VP Cheney's trip to Iraq was very effective .
Quote:
US Vice President Richard Cheney's visit to Iraq on the fifth anniversary of Operation Iraqi Freedom was given scant coverage in the media. And yet it may go down in history as a pivotal moment in the transformation of post-Saddam Iraq into a beacon of democracy and freedom in the Arab world.
Hours after Cheney's departure, the Iraqi presidency council announced that it had approved the Iraqi parliament's provincial elections law. This long-awaited act will facilitate Iraq's development into a federal state and so cement the grassroots-level political progress that has made such strides in the last year as a result of the revised US counter-insurgency or "surge" campaign.
Column One: Iraq, the Palestinians and political debate | Jerusalem PostQuote:
Gen. David Petreaus, who commands coalition forces in Iraq, has frequently warned that military success in Iraq is not a long-term strategy for stabilizing the country. While inarguable, the fact is that without military success, which to date has enabled some 62% of Iraqis to say that they regard their security situation as good, there would be no way for Iraq to become politically stabilized. The fact that today the Iraqi people are feeling optimistic about the future of their country is a consequence of the US's new surge strategy. The reason that the Iraqis are willing to make the hard choices necessary to facilitate Iraq's long-term political stability and liberalization as a multi-ethnic state is because today they believe that the US will not abandon them to the whims of their neighbors in Iran, Turkey, Syria and Saudi Arabia and the Shi'ite militias and al-Qaida cells in Iraq.
This is an ongoing process no doubt about it. The Sunni tribes that have for the moment been pacified should continue to be brought into the political process. The Shia have rejected the extremes of Moqtada al-Sadr
Whatever Happened to Moqtada? - WSJ.com
And the foreign jihadists are steadily being pushed out of Iraq.
Hello tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
They have, and when we stop paying him, he's going to take his big army and use it.
excon
We are not paying him . We are paying some Sunni tribes at the moment . Those admissions of failure are his words in the article I linked to ;not mine.
Hello tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
You're normally good at quoting sources... Who says we're not paying him? I think we're paying ALL of them.
excon
I could just as easily ask you to provide a source that shows we are . The fact is that there are sources all over willing to gloat that the US has paid the tribes of the "Awakening " for their help in rooting out al Qaeda. There is no such reporting about us paying off Shia (except speculation in the Huffpo that has no substantiation)
The reason al-Sadr initially stood down his forces was to try to consolidate the fragmented Mahdi Army under his control after there were some notable defections . It had nothing to do with a US payoff.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Well, that's not GOOD news.
excon
I heard they do send some of the top terrorists money (millions) and that is on political 'Republican leaning' radio talk shows.
"Gen. David Petreaus, who commands coalition forces in Iraq, has frequently warned that military success in Iraq is not a long-term strategy for stabilizing the country. While inarguable, the fact is that without military success, which to date has enabled some 62% of Iraqis to say that they regard their security situation as good, there would be no way for Iraq to become politically stabilized."
The other 38% are taking dirt naps?
This is from a couple of years ago, but according to the L.A. Times our government was paying the Iraqi press to run positive articles.
U.S. Military Covertly Pays to Run Stories in Iraqi Press
"Though the articles are basically factual, they present only one side of events and omit information that might reflect poorly on the U.S. or Iraqi governments, officials said."
I get it... just like Fox news. Not only do we install puppet governments but puppet main stream media outlets too. Ahhh, I love good ole democracy.
Bill Roggio is reporting that al-Sadr is taking a butt-whipping in Basra .
Mahdi Army taking significant casualties in Baghdad, South - The Long War Journal
This is a significant development because to consolidate power in the government these militias need to be disarmed . This looks to me to be the equivalent of Ben-Gurion's attack on the Irgun militia during the Alatena Affair.
Roggio also provides proof that al-Sadr is being armed and trained by the Iranians.
In Pictures: Iranian munitions seized in Iraq - The Long War Journal
Before we are finished in Iraq ,Iran will have to be dealt with.
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