I everyone, this is my first visit to this forum, so please be patient with me. I am really in a pickle right now regarding a new toilet I've just installed, which I "THOUGHT" would have been about an hour's job... yah right!
I actually have two problems, but I'll address the one that is bothering me the most right now.
My old toilet had a small chrome pipe that was attached to the toilet tank, and down through the main floor into my basement where it was treaded to a copper fitting that threaded onto the copper pipe (the copper pipe with the horizontal shut off valve)
When I purchased the new toilet, the flex pipe that came with it, was too short to allow connection from the tank, through the floor and onto male thread of the copper pipe below the floor. No big deal I say to myself, I'll just purchase one of those flexible mesh stainless steel tubings the right length (18") and all should be good. The guy at the hardware store suggested that seeing I was putting on a new water line to the tank, that I should get a 90 degree ball valve which would allow me to turn the water off/on from the upstairs bathroom, instead of having to turn the one down stairs designated for the toilet. Made sense to me, plus they're not expensive. HERE'S WHERE MY PROBLEMS STARTS !!!
Once everything is connected good and tight, with about two wraps of teflon tape to the male thread of the ball valve, I turn on the water from below, and all heck breaks loose, and water really comes out at the valve the bottom of the valve. The flex mesh pipe is 6" long from the copper pipe through the floor (both ends female thread), and treaded to the bottom of the valve. The other flex mesh pipe is about 12" long (both ends female thread again) and connects from the top of the valve to the underside of the toilet tank.
The second I turn on the water downstairs, it leaks like crazy, by no means would I consider this a drip, but rather a major gush of water from what seems to be coming from where the 6" flex connects to the bottom of the ball valve.
I've been to the hardware store 3 times (10 miles away) to replace the flex pipe as well as the ball valve, and I just can't seem to solve the leak. Hardware people tell me they are lost for words as it "should" work fine, and they sell hundreds of this type of connection.
I will admit I am not a plumber, and I don't ever want to become one (wood is my material of choice thank you) However, I would like to save a bit of money and not have to call a plumber , especially for something as weird as this. It's so weird, that it may be some stupid little thing that I am missing.
Sorry for making this such a long post, but seeing I don't have a picture taken yet, I was just trying to paint a picture to make it easier for whomever reads this and hopefully I'll get some kind of positive advice (other than to give up plumbing lol)
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

Raymond:

How tight are you tighteniing the flex lines.. should only be hand tight plus maybe 1 full turn..

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the male thread of the ball valve,

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What male thread? Are you referring to the 1/4" compression thread the flex tuibe connects to from the toilet tank? Somrhow or another I must be missing something.
This copper pipe in the basement had a stop for your toilet supply that was , soldered, threaded or had a compression nut, (Fill in one) and you did what to bringit up into the bathroom? How did the ball valve in the bathroom connect back to the copper pipe in the basement? We are now in the bathroom. and you're connecting t6he flex supply to the 1/4 compression thread in the ball valve. If I'm reading you correctly no Teflon Tape's necessary on those threads since they hold no water. As Mark pointed out, you hand tighten the compression nuts but I always give it a little "snug up" with a pair of pliers. Did you over tighten? I'm still attempting to visualize exactly where the new valve mounts or does it just set over the hole in the floor. Clue me in. Regards, Tom

Tom, I am not sure, but I think Raymond has a 1/4 turn (I think that is what the 90 meant) 3/8" compression shutoff in between a regular 3/8" x 12" flexible closet riser and a double 3/8" female compression flexible riser (attached to 3/8" compression fitting off copper pipe in basement)... BUT I AM NOT SURE EITHER.

If you ask me, he needs to get a 3/8" compression coupling and remove that shutoff and be done with it. We'll see when he drops back.

.

Ok, it seems that the guy at the hardware store didn't know what he was talking about (making two of us) and gave me the wrong fittings, not once, but 3 times. Finally took everything back, went to another hardware outlet, and was given the correct fittings, and everything now is all good. I ended up not using a speed way valve in the bathroom under the tank, cause I already had one in the basement just a few feet away from where I soldered.
I re-soldered the copper pipe down stairs, attached the flex water supply from the copper pipe, up through the floor which vertically goes straight up into the bathroom above, and of course to the underside of the toilet tank. Total length of flex pipe from copper pipe to bottom of toilet tank = 18 inches.

The other problem I mentioned in the beginning of my post was, when I removed the old toilet, I noticed that the top round part of the flange (the part the toilet anchors go) was cracked or split. So I tried to remove it so that I could install a new flange. I broke the top part of the flange even more, after I realized that the bottom funnel part of the flange was "glued" directly to the 6" PVC Tee that is connected to the main exit pipe. The Tee was about 2 inches from the top floor, and was located between the two joists of the floor, meaning no room to work. I thought I was doomed and would have to call a plumber to make it all good. As a one last ditch effort, I went to the "good" hardware store, and purchased a brass round flange ring (like the plastic one that was broken) also purchased another plain wax ring (no rubber funnel on it).
When I came to install the brass ring, the inner circle wasn't big enough to get around the top outside diameter of the glued flange which is glued to the Tee below. I then cut the brass ring in two, which allowed me to get it around the lower flange neck. I positioned the two toilet anchors under the ring (making sure they were the same distance from the rear wall) and then screwed the ring through each allocated hole into the 3/4" plywood of the bathroom floor. Installed "TWO" wax doughnuts over the flange, the rubber funnel wax ring being closest to the floor and the plain wax ring on top of it. Placed the toilet on top of everything and squished it down good. Tightened everything up (not too tight) and then turned on the water supply from downstairs. Everything is working well, with not apparent leaks anywhere. I didn't caulk the bottom perimeter of the toilet, because I wanted to make sure there wasn't any leakage, and the other reason is because I will have to remove the toilet again in a few weeks when I install ceramic floor tile in the bathroom.
I will then be removing the 30 year old tub/shower unit and replace it with a newer one. Sure hope that goes better than the toilet replacement.
Anyway, thank you both for your help, I'm sorry I didn't get back to answer your questions, but I thought I would have had an automated email message stating someone had answered my thread. (and yes the "instant message notification" box was checked properly)

Thanks again.

Hi Ray:

That was very creative of you... not bad! I wonder what you will think when you find that they sell a SPANNER flange (see pic) for $4.19 that does exactly what you did... Sorry... I am not laughing... I swear! (OUCH)

Hey, you said replace the tile floor. Are you planning on adding to floor thickness... or will you end up at same height? You want the toilet flange to set ON TOP of the finished (tile) floor AND you want to use only 1 (ONE) wax gasket if possible.

Get back to us on that... Glad all set for now. Let's make it so set for years!. Get back to us with plans for new floor... talk soon... Mark


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LOL, didn't know that about the Flanner Flange, so yah, I guess my little piece of ingenuity wasn't a bad call.
Regarding the new floor, yes, I will be raising the floor by whatever the thickness of the 12" or so of ceramic tile will be. I'm assuming somewhere around 1/4 to 3/8" for the new tile.
When I remove the toilet again, I want to replace the plywood just under the toilet (the width between floor joists, x a little wider than the toilet, cause although is wasn't rotten under the old toilet, it definitely was a bit spongy and dark.
I'll let you know when I start the complete remodeling of the bathroom.
Thanks again Mark for your help, truly appreciated.
Ray

You could also try flange risers that range from 1/8" to 5/8" so you just put themon top of the old flange and glue and screw them down again.

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Originally Posted by razor96

you could also try flange risers that range from 1/8" to 5/8" so you just put themon top of the old flange and glue and screw them down again.

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Razor hit it right on the head. Forget the double wax seal. I never liked them anyhow. Get a set of flange extenders,(see image) and flush yo troubles away. Cheers and I'm shutting down and poping a cold one. Tom

I did look at those at the first hardware store I went to, but wasn't sure what they were about. I'll definitely consider it when I redo the bathroom in a few weeks with new the new tile etc.
While there, I also saw some kind of rubberized gasket ring (instead of a waxed one) and from what I understood from the pkg, they do as good a job as the wax ring, but can be removed and reused as often as you want, with no mess. Do you know anything about these ?
Hope you enjoyed your beer SpeedBall1.;)

Ray:

You can use the flange spacers if you like, or if this is PVC like I think you said earlier, and if enough room can always cut the old flange out and install a new one once the tile has been laid down.

Here, you would use an inside cutter (see pic) and cut just below the old pvc flange about an inch or so lower then fitting. Then use coupling and stub dry piece of pipe up and out and above floor for now (cap with jim cap or tape with duct tape during floor tile installation). The hole in the tile around this pipe should be a 5 inch wide hole. After floor tiled/grouted, then remove dry fit pipe and put new flange in hole and take measure between new flange fitting and the new coupling you glued on earlier. Then prime/cement the flang into place.

Then you will need to drill holes through new tile with a 1/4" masonary drill bit and install 1/4" plastic drop in anchors and screw the flange through tile and into floor. Then just set toilet with 1 wax gasket and a new set of 5/16" johnni bolts. That would be best overaall scenario.

Now, you may not have the room to do this (look inside the toilet pipe... if no room between toilet elbow and closet flange this will not work). But if there is room, this takes 1/2 hour or so each phase and is best overall solution to issue.

And the waxless gasket... I have not used this yet.. looks good, say for when you have a brand new flange... but if flange is below floor... stick with the wax gaskets.


Anyway, my two cents again... ;)

Let me know your thoughts! Mark

Hi again Mark,
I'm not sure I'm grasping all of what you are trying to explain, and I apologize for being so brain dead. With that said, I think I understand what you suggested regarding cutting out the old glued flange, although, I'm not sure it would work. The old flange is glued butt to butt with the black PVC Tee with not even a hair space between them. BTW I really like that little cutting wheel in the picture. Does it have a special name, it might come in handy someday for something else. Looking at the bit size, my guess is that it goes into a drill chuck. Anyway, am I correct in assuming that I won't be able to do what you suggest if the two pieces (bottom of old flange and the Tee) are butted together with glue?
If not, I could always cut the Tee, somewhere on the opposite side a few inches down the horizontal pipe that connects to the Tee, and start to rebuild my way up through the bathroom floor again. Here's another stupid questions, why is there a Tee there anyway ? There are same size pvc pipes going in from each side of the Tee. One I know is the exit port from the toilet, but I'm not sure where the other one goes or comes from. Could it be that one is the air vent that goes up through the roof ?
Getting way to deep right now, so I'll stop here.
Thanks once again for all your friendly advice Mark. It's nice to know there are still some good helpful people in the world.
I'll get back to you as I approach the bathroom reno time, which you may regret and wonder why on earth you ever bothered trying to help this stupid CanEHdian lol
Just for future reference, I'm more of a hands on type of guy, I could read for hours about how to do something, and chances are, I'd have to re-read it again, but show me once or twice, and I usually pick it up right away. So be patient with me if you can.
Later
Ray

Hi Ray:


I think you are doing great! So no worry about me getting impatient.. ok? I love working with you guys.

That tool is called an inside cutter... great for lots of stuff ;)

And if flange/fitting are butt to butt... most likely will not work... :(

The tee fitting should not be there (not allowed on horizontal piping for drains)... the other end probably runs over to vent stack and up into attic or out the roof itself. Sounds like the plumber had little choice if fittings are butt to butt... Of course, he could have run slightly left or right of drain and picked up toilet with a wye on its side into a 90 degree fitting to accept the flange...but some do like shortcuts!

Anyway, glad we are helping, and you are good enough to answer all questions and work with us, so it is our pleasure.. I promise.. ;)

Hey, keep us posted... Mark

If these answers help, please RATE THIS ANSWER... thanks!


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