First - this is a great site. I've found several informative threads that have helped me out. Thanks.


I'm laying out a finished basement bedroom. I've built a sizable (non clothes) closet for the electrical panel and main trap. If I install a bathroom with a sewage ejector pump/uplush toilet, can it legally be in this utility closet? I know that the panel can't be in a bathroom... this goes underneath the wall and only the pump would be in the closet.

A link to a similar model: Sewage packages - installation instructions - Zoeller Powerflush toilet systems Quick Johns from famous Plumbing Supply

You cannot have the SEP (Main Panel) installed near water.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by donf

You cannot have the SEP (Main Panel) installed near water.

---

Don, this is completely false. There is NO restriction as to proximity to ANY water source.

By code, you can have the panel 3" from a slop sink if you want to.

Would you please tell me where in the code you found that. I know I don't have the greatest memory in the world but it sure seems to me that having your SEP right next to working water systems is inviting trouble. How would an electrician safely work on the panel?

But, hey I'm a learner, I'll go back through the SEP mounting instructions and see if the code is silent or specific, but I'd appreciate your help.

Just to clarify, the trap and the panel were installed during construction, and are approximately 4' apart. All I've changed is the installation of the utility closet. There is no existing fixtures or water sources... just the main drain and trap.

The ejector pump that I'm considering would still be well more than 3' away from the panel (per code).

I do not agree with Stan on this for several reasons.

NEC Code requires that the SEP, if mounted inside, needs to be at a location as close as physically possible to where the Service Conductors enter the building. (230-70.1). Whoever moved your SEP may have opened you up to code violations.

Clearly you cannot put the SEP in a bathroom, which I understand you are not doing. However, you cannot place an SEP in a closet, or cabinet either.

Since you are planning to install an "Up John", (BTW, we had one installed in our basement in a residence in KY and it worked terrifically, you'll enjoy the convenience). However, while you maintain that the only thing in the closet would be the SEP and the drain, it is quite possible for caustic vapors to be released through the vent cap, you know sewer gas.

Then there are the Safe work area rules, 110-26 which describe how much of a work zone must be allowed for an electrician or inspector to expect around the SEP, and what can be installed into the walls behind the panel box.

Stan, I know I tend to frustrate you and in particular Labman, but I ask you, suppose there is a fire and the first guy in, looks for the disconnect where it should be, how is he/she going to know it's been moved to a point inside a closet "X amount of feet away, inside a bedroom and bath area?

I realize that fire personnel do have training in removing the meter, but I also know their first place they go is the SEP after looking for trapped folks and pets.

If you would like to take this off-line (Via PM rather than beat a dead hores here in the forum), just say so. I will also readily admit it if I am wrong, but this setup is an accident waiting to happen.

Or, Mr. homeowner, call the fire department and have a fire inspector experienced in electrical fire, take a look at the site. If he / she says it meets code, I apologize in advance for my ignorance.

Don, no need to PM. This stuff is good for the forum so that others can learn form it.
Discussion is a good thing.


Ok, first point. You CAN certainly put a panel in a closet, just not a clothes closet (specifically) or near "easily ignitable material".

240.24(D) Not in Vicinity of Easily Ignitible Material Overcurrent devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitable material, such as in clothes closets.

Second, Don, you pointed it out yourself. 110.26. A working space of 30" wide, 36" deep and 6'6" high. This is the ONLY restriction to where a panel is placed. You must meet minimum clearances, and water is not mentioned in those clearances.
Also, there is NO mention of what is installed behind a panel. Only in front.

The "nearest the point of entry" in 230.70(A)(1) is an intentionally ambiguous statement. Local utilities provide the actual distance, not the NEC.

I am curious as to what accident is waiting to happen, at least aside from any other hazards that lie in a typical utility room.
What danger does "water" create? At least water in the sense of piping and a sink.

Okay,

You might have me on the water, considering that as stated by the OP, the main trap is in the same closet as the SEP. But I would consider a wet floor as a safety problem, particularly if you need to work on the panel or you need to cut the panel off. I've see some pretty nasty gray water spills just from sloppily glued PVC. The safety risk is there, albeit a small one, but I wouldn't try to do panel work on a wet floor, would you?

Maybe I'm misreading, 110.26.F (a)" ..... No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be located in this zone."

230.70 (A)(1) How am I misreading this one? " Readily Accessible Location: ... "or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors."" Is 40' (arbitray distance) down the wall the nearest distance you can mount a SEP and still keep it accessable, behind the bathroom in a closet?

JB, the point where the SEP is mounted, was that moved during construction or is it in the "immeadiate vicinity" of the where the cables enter the residence. During the construction, all you did was build the closet around the SEP, trap and drain?

Don, I am foggy on where you get that he moved the panel. All I get is that he built a "sizable" closet, which will have the panel and main drain trap in it, both of which are pre-existing. He is only adding the ejector pump, of which only the rear portion will be in this closet.


Don, the point about a wet floor is well taken, but I TRULY think if there is a grey (or black) water leak in a home basement, the first thing they will do is fix that leak.

It's not like this is some dank, damp, dirt floor basement. And trust me when I tell you I HAVE worked in basements like that. TODAY in fact.
This does not sound like that kind of situation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JB99

Just to clarify, the trap and the panel were installed during construction, and are approximately 4' apart. All I've changed is the installation of the utility closet. There is no existing fixtures or water sources.....just the main drain and trap.

The ejector pump that I'm considering would still be well more than 3' away from the panel (per code).

---

Stan,

The phrase, "the trap and the panel were installed during construction" I took this to mean that he had the panel moved from and original location.

If JB had meant to say, "During the original construction", I probably would not have even blinked at this item.

My apologies for the ambiguity. The panel and "trap" were placed against this foundation wall during original construction of the house (about 5 years ago). To date, there are no water problems whatsoever.

The original placement of the main electric panel is 20" to the right of the main sewer line leaving the house.

In rereading my posts, maybe I have confused things by mistakenly calling the drain area a " to the right of the main sewer line leaving the house.

In rereading my posts, maybe I have confused things by mistakenly calling the drain area a ". Actually it is the main cleanout if there were ever a clog in the main line. Again, this is the original placement.

Also, if I were to proceed with the installation as proposed, the pump portion of the ejector pump would be about 3'-4' in the front left of the panel. The entrance to the closet would not be through the bathroom, but off the main stairway.

I do appreciate the feedback you guys are providing. Thanks again.