This post is meant really for Fr Chuck who seems to know how this works.

I had an arrest for a class b misdemeanor for which I pled guilty to a violation, a non-criminal offense in NY state in 1996

In 1997 as per NY CPL 160.55 my fingerprints were destroyed in NY state (except for law enforcement where they're kept on a hard drive in the event of another arrest or gun permit application) and an expungement order sent to the FBI to purge their files of anything pertaining to the arrest event. However on the court level the record was unsealed due to conviction

My question is, are my FBI prints in fact destroyed in the event of an employment check and are they only available for law enforcement? I have been told that any police dept anywhere can find out about your arrest even if it was expunged. Canadaian border patrol tells me if you visit the record can show up even if it was sealed or expunged

FBI/CJIS division customer svce in W tells me that if a state sends an expungement order to the FBI, the record is destroyed as per their stamp and seal and should not be traceable ANYWHERE, even the NCIC for a gun permit, immigration, etc

Would this show up on a Georgia GCIC check for a professional license?

Hello rl:

I don't know how it works. But let me ask you this. You got the fed with their NCIC data base. Then you got the state. The state tells the fed to destroy their records because it got expunged at the state. You think the fed is going to destroy their records because the state told them to??

Okee doakee, then.

excon

The consensus is that while there is no federal law to expunge, the fbi honors state expungement orders


Ny state says that the fbi will not expunge a record on it's own--only in response to a state order

The fbi cjis dept told me this on the phone at their hq in clarkburg, w va--that if a state orders expungement, they do it via stamp and seal

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rlrl

the concensus is that while there is no federal law to expunge, the fbi honors state expungement orders..... ny state says that the fbi will not expunge a record on it's own--only in response to a state order...... the fbi cjis dept told me this on the phone at their hq in clarkburg, w va--that if a state orders expungement, they do it via stamp and seal

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Hello again, r:

You'll excuse me if I'm not swayed by your collection of bureaucrats. I am impressed with the "stamp and seal" thing. I have no idea what that means.

No matter. I just don't believe that the Feds are going to destroy their records because a state court orders it to. You may choose to believe that. I do not.

excon

No, even "explunged" records are not really destroyed, they are merely marked "explunged" so that when they can still be viewed by police and for national security. When the police run a NCIC report ( remember that is not a finger print system, NCIC is only criminal records reports, fingerprints is another issue all together) but when your police run a NCIC report, it will show every arrest that was entered into their data base, even if found not guilty, it will show all explunged records and of couse it will show all convictions, parole or probation status and so on.

If they are giving the report out, they are to edit out any sentencing and explunged records. So the NCIC definition of explunged is marking it as such, not really taking it out.

Now to address the Fingerprint issue, of course the Dept of Homeland Security has the largest fignerprint data base from what I understand, since they also track those of non citiznes entering the country and so on.
But most of the new FBI system is all computerized, where it turns your print into a number system, and has nromally electronic copies of your prints, those are not destroyed but may be changed in status from criminal to merely reference. Remember most of their fingerprints on file are not criminal fingerprints, but they are for people going into the military, people being hired as police or security or corrections, or people getting gun permits, or teaching and any job that requires fingerprints.
Criminals are the smaller percent of total fingerprints. But no they don't destroy any fingerprint or record, records are merely marked sealed.

As to how I know, I have ran many ( MANY) NCIC , and that is just how they are marked, before you are allowed to view or run these you have to have special training.

YOu have to remember that no real court record is ever actually destroyed, they can't be, what if there was some issue from court or other need, they are always there to see, merely sealed so to speak, Also remember sealed only means they are moved from file cabinet A to cabinet B that is marked where it is not to be viewed without certain security levles or court order

Fr Chuck--thanks for the clarification. So when I am fingerprinted for a job via the FBI for a non-law enforcement job there should be a no record response but if I'm going to say visit Canada it may show up in the system?

Also, if I was applying to Ga for a professional license where they do not fingerprint and the licensing board checks GCIC records, would they find my NY record there even if it was sealed and prints removed. The license would not reauire any fingerprint

The fingerprint will only show if you were ever fingerprinted under another name, ( that is really their ownly purpose to show who you really are.

Then they can take that Identification and run a criminal report.
Any explunged record done by the police system will not show up, unless you are applying for a police job or a job that requires a national security clearance. And it does not show up for immigration either, as for as effecting immigratoin.

As for a professional license it may depend on which one, ( and to be specific, in Georiga, they have their own version of NCIC, called GCIC, but that includes all of the NCIC records also, when the police run it. Now the police will see the NY record *** most likely, but when they release it for public record the explunged is edited out. Even to licenseing boards unless they are specific need. It should not show up for the insurance or the real estate, but may for the private detectitve since it can invovle a fire arm carry. ****( that is a guess on that one, but you get the jest)
One way to be sure what the public will see, go run one, most sherriff office will run your report for you, for a small fee. As will some of the major city police departments.

Sometimes it is good to run one, you may be surprised that someone may have stolen your identity and used it when they were arrested. Most criminals have two or three names or more they use when arrested, trying to get released on bail before the report comes back.
**** in the old days, it took up to three days to get back a fingerprint max to match it with a NCIC report, and still does in many counties. For example I understand in Cobb county GA, they just chnaged over this year to the new computer machines ( I had the honor to have my fingerprints ran on their new machine a few months ago, NON CRIMINAL)

But you should be safe for most GA licensing

Fr Chuck, in NY there are 2 types of sealing orders, the first is criminal procedure 160.50 where the fingerprints are destroyed(recalled from FBI) and court record sealed due to an acquittal or dismissal in response to a fingerprintable arrest

The second sealing order is 160.55 where the fingerprints are destroyed(recalled from FBI) but not the court record because a conviction occurred for a non-criminal charge

In the second case, it's sealing/expunging an actual conviction at the FBI


Would the FBI still expunge the prints in response to a NY sealing order even when the record was ordered sealed by NY?