Whom do you believe and why?

And how did it end up so partisan?

It seems it was because George Bush Sr. expressed his concerns in a duck blind to Clemens -and Mitchell was a Democrat? Maybe that is why the country has so much partisan fighting... Yikes.

If I were a member of Waxman's committee I would not have taken part in this kangaroo court. Waxman now is spinning it that he has regrets in holding the hearings.

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"I'm sorry we had the hearing. I regret that we had the hearing. And the only reason we had the hearing was because Roger Clemens and his lawyers insisted on it," Waxman said.

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But even that statement is a matter of dispute

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Clemens' lawyer, Rusty Hardin, disputes Waxman's claims, calling the congressman's statements, "unbelievable, disingenuous and outrageous."
"He is the one who created this circus in the first place," Hardin said.

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Another of Clemens lawyers said

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When I was first retained, I argued to this committee that this should not be the kind of hearing that they had, that Roger Clemens would be proud and delighted to join chairman Waxman and anyone else and to say to them and to say to anyone else what he has said to the children all over America: that there are no shortcuts, that it's hard work, and he is against steroids and he is against HGH. I was turned down flat," Breuer said.
"It was only after the depositions were all written that we were then asked if we want to go forward. And even then my colleague and I said we did not need a hearing as long as there would be a fair report."
But the Clemens camp was concerned whether the report would be fair, so the star pitcher decided to go ahead with the hearing.
"What we could not live with was a report that was cut-and-pasted without all of us hearing and seeing from Roger directly," Breuer said.

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Waxman's committee is not the Sports Oversight Committee so I do not quite understand how it was in their perusal . Oh yeah... it was about illegal drug use... as if the Democrats ever cared about that before. Now if Clemens were blowing methane farts I could see where they would be alarmed .

Waxman is one of the biggest nuisances on Capitol Hill . He is known for his grandstanding . The committee held the witch trial to determine if Clemens or Macnamee were lying ;And of course Congress takes a dim view of anyone who is lying who is not a member of Congress.

But his problem was that every witness against Clemens turned out to be injecting kickapoo joy juice themselve or was a sleeze like Macnamee . It came out during the hearing . Clemen's flatly denied taking steroids and when asked how he explains his success he said

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As the hearing wore on, Rep. William Lacy Clay (D-Mo.) asked Clemens: "Can I look at my two children with a straight face and tell them that you, Roger Clemens, have always played the game with honesty and integrity?"
Said Clemens: "Yes sir.. . You can tell your boys that I did it the right way and I worked my butt off to do it."

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The Committee Democrats acted like that was some kind of foreign concept to them . So foreign to them that no doubt they will now refer Clemens to the Justice Dept for charges of perjury .

All that said, Clemens is pretty hosed given the odd things he said:

- wife taking growth hormone without his knowledge
- pettite having facts wrong
- pettite's wife also wrong
- clemens saying his MOM recommended B12
- injection swellings that got so large he needed help
- Pettite getting excused
And on an on...

Mcnamee is a weak looking man, but clearly he was in a no-win. I am no fan, but not sure he was lying... Waxman is a pain, but again, we cannot pin clemens fate on him...

Also, WHY SO PARTISAN??

ODD.

I think Clemens was working the crowd and signing autographs before the hearings. Sort of like Jury tampering . If I were him I would've asked the inquistors if they ever took performance enhancing drugs "for when the time is right."

The dirty secret is that everyone knew ;from ownership to fans to the members of Congress ,that major league ball players were juicing up and approved of the activity. Baseball thought they would suffer after the strike in '94 .Instead fan interest and revenues exploded in the decade since. Why ? Because players were hitting 50-60 500 ft homers a season .

The Mitchell Hearings was a show investigation . Former Sen. Mitchell ,an executive in the Red Sox organization was not given any real power to get to the bottom of the issue. His report is top loaded with Yankees because it was Macname who broke the wall of silence.

I've no doubt that Clemens did what probably many if not a majority of players did . He would've had to just to stay competitive. You don't think so ? If super-stars like Clemens and Barry Bonds were juiced imagine the pressure on the benchwarmers just to get a job in the league .

I say haul the asses of the owners into a hearing .Ask them to refute what Macnamee claimed David Cone said about the owners since his word is the bible truth .

As for partisanship on the issue. It is puzzling and amusing . I think both parties are going to have a year long food fight.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Now if Clemens were blowing methane farts I could see where they would be alarmed .

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LOL, don't give them any ideas :D

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I say haul the asses of the owners into a hearing .Ask them to refute what Macnamee claimed David Cone said about the owners since his word is the bible truth .

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I have to admit I haven't paid much attention to this thing because I think it's a farcical waste of taxpayer dollars and hardly worthy of that much of Congress' time and attention. Have the commish and the owners actually faced the music on this, I mean wasn't Mitchell appointed by the Commissioner? Didn't the report focus on players and not the league's role? It seems to me they just turned a blind eye and really, gave tacit approval for these juiced up mega stars to rescue baseball from the ash heap of the 90's, and now they're feeding those guys to the wolves while they sit in the shadows and make their gazillions. Am I wrong?

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As for partisanship on the issue. It is puzzling and amusing . I think both parties are going to have a year long food fight.

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This Democratic Congress does seem a bit like like something out of National Lampoon.

http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/images/Mat...alhousezit.jpg

I think the testing policies were weak enough to tempt cheating...
And the comish and the owners were hardly upset about it... as we all
Saw a juiced up maquire and Sosa bring the fans back after the last strike...
But BONDS was so Hurculean and so acerbic - he was impossible not to ignore.
Now a former IRS agent is chrged with rounding the high profile guys/gals up
And prosecuting... see also Marion Jones... The Feds are now in this - for better or for worse. Frankly, the league made it innevitable.

But I still don't see how it became a GOP versus DEM hearing...
Clearly we are at an all time impasse if we can't even cross party lines on... baseball.

Concerning Waxman: "House Oversight Committee Chairman Waxman seemed aware of the farce. He indicating in his opening statement that he'd thought of canceling the hearings and merely issuing an outline of the Committee's findings."
See: The American Spectator

Some of us covered this topic at another location: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/baseba...ce-183781.html

Beware life1973happened; she likes to stir things up.

Hello Ash:

Did you get your question answered?? I think you did.

The Republicans here didn't tell you why the issue is partisan, but they did tell you how much they hate Henry Waxman.

I think there's an answer to your question there.

excon

Then why was Waxman so pro MacNamee ? These hearings are what Waxman does in lieu of real work .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

then why was Waxman so pro MacNamee ?

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Hello again, tom:

I don't know. Why do cops love their snitches??

Tell me tom, if Clemens was charged with doing heroin instead of HGH, would you still be angry at the snitch?? Nahhh, you wouldn't. Wouldn't you, instead, be on the cops side? Yup. You would.

So, it matters WHICH illegal drug you use. Hmmmm. I'm telling you guys, you got to stop picking and choosing... It just ain't right.

excon

The partisanship in DC is sad indeed.

I reckon that since Mitchell was a Dem, and Mac was the informant then they all had to find reasons to attack him... often to an absurdly fawning degree towards clemens.

But alas, as always, the truth comes out in the end and they will look silly... again.

Clemens looked so silly up there it was sad. And perjury charges may result IFFFFF the case is pursued by the justice dep't.

And I put it at the feet of the GOP, who fell so in love with hating a successful president that they became obsessed. Then they elected a president so bad that even the most loyal can hardly support him in public anymore.

I am really hoping the US can start acting sane again or we can follow these tenets of the recent neo-GOP for ever more:

To be a Republican you need to believe:


1. Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary
Clinton.


2. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's Daddy
Made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him, and a
Bad guy when Bush needed a 'we can't find Bin Laden' diversion.


3. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with
China is vital to a spirit of international harmony.


4. The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest
National priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq .


5. A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but
Multinational drug corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without
Regulation.


6. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in
Speeches, while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.


7. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.


8. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our longtime allies, then
Demand their cooperation and money.


9. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy, but providing health
Care to all Americans is socialism. HMO's and insurance companies have the
Best interests of the public at heart.


10. Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but
Creationism should be taught in schools.


11. A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense,
But a president lying to enlist support for a war in which
Tens of thousands die is solid defense policy.


12. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution,
Which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet .


13. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a
Conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for
Your recovery.


14. You support 'Executive Privilege' for every Republican ever born, who
Will be born or who might be born (in perpetuity.)

Here's to a saner - steroid free - gov't soon.

Although, I do think Nany Pelosi and Cheney might need some HGH soon!

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Originally Posted by Ash123

And I put it at the feet of the GOP, who fell so in love with hating a successful president that they became obsessed. Then they elected a president so bad that even the most loyal can hardly support him in public anymore.

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Yeah, we can't stand the Clintons but the hatred toward Bush is way beyond an obsession. It's also telling you can blame the GOP for this partisanship right before posting some of the most asinine, insulting, divisive drivel I've ever seen.

Ash123, that is quite a list of complaints from a bright person. It tells me is that you are young, so don't get too distressed or jaundiced. It's beneficial for all to see that what keeps the 'liberal' big balloon inflated is a lot of hot air.

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Originally Posted by excon

So, it matters WHICH illegal drug you use. Hmmmm. I'm telling you guys, you gotta stop picking and choosing... It just ain’t right.

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Ex,

Have we somewhere supported the use of performance enhancing drugs? I don't recall having done so, nor did this Republican say anything about your buddy Waxman. I do think he has more important things to do with our time and money, don't you? :D

Steve

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Tell me tom, if Clemens was charged with doing heroin instead of HGH, would you still be angry at the snitch??

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The bigger question I think is "would Waxman waste his time and our money hauling a snitch and a heroin user before his committee if the user did not have 354 wins ?

Comedy.

The sad thing is that all 14 I listed, simply put a mirror in front of a curent reality.

I mean national polls confirm it... this administration has lost the public.

For my money, the few that have the will and the guts to be bi-partisan are the future.
As scary as that may seem. I think the GOP candidate could do this... as well as a Democrat.

Hang in there and keep your mind open to the idea that better days are ahead.

I kind of like some blue water between the parties myself. Dark Crow said it and I agree that bipartisanship sounds a little too fascist for my taste . This country has a history of bitter partisan divide. Let's not make it sound like it is a new phenomenon.

Bipartisan="Fascist?"

Oh man, I am laughing out loud... You crack me up.

I could list all the great accomplishments achieved by bi-partisan initiatives, but surely you MUST know that tom :-)

Anyway, hang in there buddy!

And here I thought you were probably opposed to the Patriot act .
Passed by thje House (Yeas: 357; Nays: 66)
Passed by the Senate (Yeas: 98; Nays: 1)

That's about as bipartisan as you can get .