 |
The six men will be tried jointly at the U.S. Naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, but Pentagon officials said that it will not begin for at least another five months. Even so, the process, including appeals, could last for years.
So this is the injustice some on the Left is whining about? Whatever happened to a fair and speedy trial?
NPR: Pentagon Charges Six in Sept. 11 Attacks
You believe a speedy trial is owed to whom?
Like…why aren't they dead?
I won't be surprised if the government doesn't end up being on trial by the Left wing media.
Any chance of a speedy trial was sabotaged by the ACLU etc by contesting the status of the prisoners. The lefties are now going to contend that these trials are election year stunts or that we have to dispose of them before they can testify about the conditions at Club Camp Delta .
Of course Muslim Rep Keith Ellison came back from Gitmo recently and he now says he's not so sure the prison should be closed mostly because members of Congress and the media have access to the site ,and conditions are not bad . Guantanamo isn't Auschwitz after-all . But I digress...
It will be interesting to see how the candidates register on the issue. Come on Evita and Obama... say you oppose the death penalty for KSM and his band of mass murderers. I want to hear you say that they are not getting a fair trial .
Swift and speedy justice would've been a summary court-marshal in the theater immediately after capture.
Good point about Evita and Obama…I suspect they will dance around the question.
Yeah, the field summary court-marshal right after the Mossad counter-terrorism unit got through with them.:p
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_crow
I shouldn't have laughed at that :o but I did :p
As long as the are collected and stored away - I don't care what they do with them.
Six? Aren't there a multitude of others?
Will they have this trial on TV. I sure hope they do. Prime Time. And all of America should watch it.
I even think we should all be permitted to call in our vote... I think all of America should get to be the jurors. Am I wrong?
No, we shouldn't kill 'em; try them and if found guilty, sentence them to pick up garbage in all 50 states until each of them returns to Allah.
Yes, and then maybe more people will understand the Military Commissions Act and exactly what it means.
These criminals should be brough to justice no doubt. And if the death penalty is what justice is then so be it. The death penalty is another debate.
But no matter what these men's crime shouldn't they be entitled to justice just as any other criminal? Oh that's right. These men isn't criminals. They are enemy combatants. The type of people that can be held for 6 years or more without charge, the type that can be tortured and treated like animals.
In that case they should just do what they like to them then. Maybe make a game show of it and get that guy of Millionaire to host it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
Skell,
For me personally my comments were just a release of upset for what was done. In my lifetime, it is the first time I experienced and witnessed a direct attack. Do I mean any of what I said, I really don't know but it's hard for me to even call those that had anything to do with driving a plane into our buildings as "men".
It is very hard for me, as I would never want to hurt another human with even a word let alone torture them. And no, I don't want them tortured.
But I will admit, the anger that swells up in me for what was done on our soil is more then I can express. And I don't want to give those "men" the wrong impression. Anger probably is not the correct word to describe the feelings. I would say a strong sense to stand up and defend against such irrational behavior. And even greater pride and love for my country. Forgive me if my comments were less then rationale but you have to admit, driving a plane into a building because of hatred is a little less then rationale.
And may God forgive me for the anger that I do have towards those that have hurt us and continue to. And I fully realize that other countries have experienced similar attacks for years, and my heart goes out to them and I have very similar anger.
Sorry Skell, don't have my head on quite right, I admit.
I had to learn and I did learn which I am most grateful for, to accept and reach an understanding, at negative comments said about my country, my Government and in some cases my fellow Americans. And I actually am now able to have some understanding and acceptance when I see the numerous post against my Government and such by non-Americans. So, I guess I would like some understanding as well.
Skell, if this were to happen in your country, I would say Skell, have had it hun. Speak your peace and be heard!! I'd be upset right with you.
America is a civilized country. You know darn right well they are not going to be tortured. We had some hiccups in the past, no one is perfect. This is a great country with highly intellegent people and if these "men" were held 6 years, so be it. They probably just wanted to make sure the evidence was solid and if we didn't keep them until trial, we would have a hard time finding them again.
It is my belief, that if these are the "men" who drove planes into our buildings, evil has penetrated them so deeply, they hardly remsemble men and barely human.
But don't feel too bad for them Skell, I think there may be 77 females, who don't know what they are doing, waiting for them. Brilliant I say, just brilliant.
(in my heart Skell, I wish no one any harm, humor is a tool to release, let me and whomever voice whatever is in our hearts at this disgusting tradedgy
That took place.)
Hello:
Couple things.
Do you know the why the representation of justice is blind? Do you even know what I'm talking about?
Blind Justice is the theory that law should be viewed objectively. It means that the determination of innocence or guilt should be made without bias or prejudice. It is the idea behind the United States Supreme Court motto “Equal Justice Under Law”.
We adopted the idea from the ancient Hammurabi code. It's probably the oldest and most famous example of what was called lex talionis, or an eye for an eye. The accused would literally sit behind a blind out of the courts view. An administrator would hear a charge and dispense the law as written. If found guilty, punishment was pre-determined. It didn't matter how much influence the accused had or what anybody's opinion of him was.
We thought that was a good idea, so in our system we've agreed that the status of the accused should not be considered. That is the basis of our legal system. It just is and, I actually like it that way.
Now, I don't disagree that if I had MY way, these people wouldn't have even gotten to Gitmo. But, that's just the point. I DON'T have my way, and neither do you. In this great nation of ours, I (along with you) gave up my vigilantism to the Justice Department, who hopefully will dispense justice better and fairer than I would.
Consequently, in our great system, WHO they are doesn't matter. How badly we hate them isn't germane. How much we want to hang them from the nearest tree isn't important.
We treat people this way, because it works. There are those amongst you who think we should treat THESE people different because they're really, really bad.
No we shouldn't.
The next thing is the confessions. I don't know how you can have a fair trial using confessions that you only got because you tortured 'em. I have trouble with that. No, of course, some of you don't.
excon
The six being brought to trial... we tortured the confession out of them?
I didn't know that.
I do want us to be civil - the humane side of me does - and actually all of me does - but I
Also want t spout some upset - but no, do not want anyone wrongly convicted or tortured.
But those guilty... I want them to pay... within the law... but I want them to pay.
There is no such thing as making an example out of these 6 - the people that wish us that kind of harm couldn't and wouldn't get it nor would it stop them.
I do not know the names of all the defendants but the ring leader of the 9-11 attacks was subject to waterboarding for a reportedly 30 seconds before he became a very cooperative interrogant.
Here is my response to excon on another posting on the subject:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/politi...in-181320.htmlQuote:
We now know from testimony from CIA chief Michael Hayden that waterboarding was used a total of 3 times on Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, mastermind of attack on the USS Cole, Abu Zubaydah, the brains behind the thwarted millennium attacks, and Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who directed the 9/11 attacks. According to his testimony the CIA got a quarter of all the useful human intelligence it obtained from 2002 to 2006 from this trio .
We also found out from his testimony that the leading Democrats of both houses of Congress were briefed on this fact .(Madam Mimi and Senator Jay Rockefeller )
Thanks Tom.
What's waterboarding? I didn't know that had the lead guy allegedly behind the USS Cole. :) I'm a happy girl.
Hello again, All:
Waterboarding is torture. There's a discussion about whether it is or not, but that's because it's illegal and if they determine that it IS torture, they'll have to arrest somebody. Besides, they want to DO it so they justify doing it just like tom did.
However, we know waterboarding is torture, and we've always known it. Even John McCain knows it, to his credit. Course, he was tortured so he'd know.
Lest you think I like that scumbag Kalid, he also said it was HIS blessed hand that beheaded the American Daniel Pearl.
excon
Thanks ex.
No, we are better then torture.
Allheart
Waterboarding is a very unpleasant experience. It must be so because it is considered 100 percent effective and usually induces cooperation within 30 seconds. What McCain endured was indeed torture . He carries the scars on him today. Waterboarding is the act of strapping the person down on a board ;covering their face with a wet towel and dripping water onto it to make the person think they are going to drown. It causes no physical damage.
Excon says that he knows torture when he sees it. So the best I can do is let you determine for yorself if this crosses the line . I don't think so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Wow Tom - thanks for explaining that. Seems like it would be hard to breath.
But I think if I were to do the right thing... and it's not to skirt around making a choice as to is it or isn't it, I would leave it in the hands of those that I place my trust in and hope they don't betray that trust in doing something that is unwarranted.
I have never served one second of military service, I have never been in the heat of battle, I have never been beside a fellow soldier and seen injured or worse. I don't think I have a right to voice an opinion on it.
Face value - I would prefer we wouldn't do that. I feel like I can't breath just thinking about it.
And I said on another thread, detectives get murders to confess without this type of torture.
It may take longer to get the information with doing those acts but I bet and know that we could still get it just the same.
What if they guy doesn't know anything... what if he's innocent. It could happen.
Now, with all that said... I still would never vehemently say it is wrong - I trust in those
who are to make those type of calls. I just don't feel qualified.
Excon's been there... that's all it would take for me... his word and view has my attention and respect.
Tom, Excon and all, I am just so incredibly grateful for you sharing all that wisdom and knowledge on things I should know...
Just know I am grateful.
( Imagine how dangerous I will be once I am well informed ;)
I think the waterboarding of animals like KSM was an exercise in restraint, not an orgy of mistreatment. In the wake of 9-11 it might have been easy for officers to justify all kinds of treatment that they didn't even contemplate. They used one method that was known not to leave lasting damage and that breaks subjects very quickly. There is a difference of opinion as to it's legality... obiviously something Congress needs to clarify one way or the other . I would be interested in hearing the opinions of Speaker Pelosi and Sen Intel Chair Rockefeller since they were briefed on the issue in real time.
Hello again,
Tom continues to use the "real bad guy" justification for their treatment. As I mentioned above, its use is abhorrent to me as an American.
His definition of torture, which mirrors US policy, is it's OK if it doesn't leave lasting damage. I don't support that viewpoint at all.
To me, it's clear that it's his anger that is driving his beliefs and he uses it to justify has actions. I'm angry too, but we're a nation of laws - not men.
It would be no surprise to ME to hear the Dems he mentions waffle on the subject. I'm not a Dem. What THEY think and how THEY lead doesn't change the law and it doesn't change what I think.
excon
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:39 AM. |