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Who do you pray to in church? Mary, God, Jesus?? I am a cradle catholic and have just become extremely interested in what I have been doing all my life. I know that Jesus is the son of God. Do you pray to Jesus, who took his life for us? Do you pray to Mary for she is the one that gave birth to Jesus? Is there a correct answer for this?
Pray to who every you feel most comfortable praying to. I pray to god, but by no means think that the way I pray is the only way to pray
Praying is the important part of prayer, not who you pray to.
I personally believe it is of great importance who you pray to.
1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
It is also my belief that Jesus coveys the prayer of our Spirit to God.
If we are not praying from our Spirit the prayer is futile anyway. Jesus searches our hearts and knows what our Spirit is saying. He then conveys that message to God.
Romans 8:26 & 27 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."
Of course Catholics do not "PRAY" to Mary, they do ask for her to intercede to Jesus for them. But the prayers are to God the Father, since Jesus is also the one to intercede to God for us.
All Christians, Catholics, Baptist, Lutherans and all, all pray to God, they do it in Jesus name and/or they ask one of the Saints to intercede for us.
Personally, I pray to God the Father with the occasional "help me Jesus" prayer thrown in for good measure. :)
All I know is the NT model, which is summed up best in the Lord's prayer, "This, then, is how you should pray: Our Father... " That seems to be the standard.
"But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father... " Matthew 6:6
"One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God." Luke 6:12
"Now we pray to God... " 2 Corinthians 13:7
"We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you... " Colossians 1:3
"The widow who is really in need and left all alone puts her hope in God and continues night and day to pray and to ask God for help." 1 Timothy 5:5
"When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God." Acts 4:24
"Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God... " Romans 10:1
"Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God." Philippians 4:6
Seems like a simple answer to me.
Steve
Who I pray to in church is the same one I pray to at home, and in the car, and anywhere. GOD. God is our Father, Jesus is our Savior and our mediator. We pray through Jesus to God the Father. "No one cometh unto the Lord but through Me" (Jesus the Son). Mary, the mother of Jesus our Lord, was just that--The mother of Jesus. God did not put Mary up as someone to worship or to pray through. She was a woman, a wife, a mother. I don't understand why anyone would think that praying to, or through, Mary would be the right thing to do instead of praying to the only one who can do anything and everything in our lives. God is our Father, who we pray to. Jesus is our Lord and Savior, who we pray through. Mary WAS a woman whose greatest claim to fame is being the Mother of Jesus our Lord. Mary can do nothing for you, no matter how long and hard you pray to her. God said,"I am a jealous God" and "Put no other Gods before me." If someone is praying to or through Mary, they are putting Mary up as a god, before God. We have one God and Father. We have one Savior and Mediator whom we pray through, Jesus Christ our Lord.
Put no other gods before HIM.
To learn more turn to God's word, the Holy Bible. You will not find anywhere in the Bible were God tells us to pray to or through Mary, but you will find many times where God tells us to pray to Him without ceasing and pray through His Son, No one else. Hope this helps you.
Forgive me as I'm not trying to stir anything up here, but I still do not understand why any Christian would ask a "saint" to intercede for us. I have yet to see any explicit example in scripture of why we should pray through Mary or anyone else.
The reasoning I find seems more of an assumption than anything else. Because Mary was "the mother of God" or "favored by God?" Because Jesus is the King of kings Mary is the "queen mother" which gives her a favored position? Because the saints are alive in spirit or because the bible says of Mary "all generations will call me blessed?"
How does any of that add up to praying through the saints, in light of the fact scripture does state explicitly to pray to "Our Father" and only tells us the Holy Spirit and Jesus himself intercede for us? And if Mary is to be bestowed with such a high honor, why is there no explicit mention of her beyond the first chapter of Acts? Jesus is the entire focus of the establishment of the church isn't he? What am I missing?
This is a issue that will just divide by denomination, the newer of the churches, do not reconise the saints for some reason, and the older churches all reconise them. The Catholic, the Orthodox, all of the Anglican, the Episcipal, the Lutheran and Methodist and several of the independent groups all reconise the saints in their doctrine . Many of their members don't even know it, ( the silly part) in some, but just repeat the words or hear the pastor mention "and all the saints" without even thinking about it. And those that don't, reject it because of their teachings of the bible. So by far the majority of christians world wide accept Saints as a valid group that are asked either in pural or individual for intercession. The Catholic and Orthodox and Anglican do it more publicly. But please understand it is not a "Catholic" thing, it is a christian thing, that some denominations just don't accept. And many of these groups to me are in fault when they pray to Jesus, since even he tells us to pray to THE FATHER, and he will intercede for us.
This dos not mean our prayers as Catholics are not to the Father, they are always to the Father, we just ask as many people as possible to intercede, not really any different than a prayer list in the Sunday handout.
We as Catholic, or Anglican or Orthodox or others ask a larger group of Saints to also intercede.
But I understand those that have been taught this is wrong by their denomination teaching, just don't accept it.
I am amused at the people who will not ask a Saint to pray for you, but they will email 100 people, send out lists in church for the church on earth to pray, but refuse to ask the church in heaven to pray for them,
And it is not just Mary, but it is Joseph, Basil, John, and a 1000 of other saints that are asked to intercede. Mary is just one of the most popular for the reason that a mother may have more influence on her son.
In the end, those that believe that Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans or more pray to saints have just been taught wrong, they do not, a few mislead groups did and some mislead people may still. But it is not the churches teachings. Sadly some groups on purpose teach incorect facts and then sadly some without investigation merely believe what they hear.
Granted Chuck, that many Christians just don't know much about any of it, but it isn't that we don't recognize the saints, we just recognize scripture as the final authority which says nothing (as far as I can tell) about praying through the saints gone before us. If you can show me otherwise I'd love to see it.
However, scripture DOES tell us to "pray one for another," as in James 5:16, Colossians 1:9 and many other places. So, if we "email 100 people, send out lists in church for the church on earth to pray" we ARE explicitly following scripture.
Yes, and we merely see the church that are in heaven as merely still part of the "church" There is really no difference in our minds, That is the only difference as to that.
But again, I don't think it should make a differnce, we don't care that you do not wish to include them, and merely hope others don't care that we see them as part of the church as a whole.
REMEMBER! Mary was just a normal virgin woman until she became pregnant. So pray to the trinity! Mary is not included in this, the Holy Ghost will help you with this, and God is God but Jesus is your savior. So pray to God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost or the Holy Spirit but not Mary, all she did was give birth to him, nothing more.
PLUS we were covered by the blood of jesus and when he died, we became a new creature and we can pray to God directly rather than telling a priest or a saint to pray for us, we have a direct relationship with him, if we mess up we ask Him not a priest.
But even the New Testement tells us to confess our sins to one another,
And it merely falls into what the denomination teaches, with the majority of Christians following the including of saints, confession either public or private.
Again, this post will degress as normal into denominatonal teachings,
It doesn't have to digress if we will each genuinely and objectively discuss the issue, but I do recall a saying about a snowball... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
Here's the thing to me Chuck, I've laid out scripturally why we believe as we do but I don't see a scriptural response from the Catholic side. Now I'm not one of those guys that thinks Catholics are heretics, and I don't think most of the differences between us matter just a whole lot, so my interest is genuine. When I study the issue and come across sites such as this I have to question things.
We believe Mary was necessary... but would never devote entire websites to her devotion. Our devotion is only to the one that died for our sins, and scripturally and objectively it seems to make sense. The bible says our devotion is to God alone. The bible says pray to God alone. The bible says pray for one another. I can't find the other stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
Who you pray to--is the most important part of prayer.
God is the only one who will hear your prayers and if you are not praying to Him, your prayers are in vain. I know some people will disagree with this, all I can say is study your Bible. I can't stress this enough. The only way to know what is right is to study God's word.
"Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise--the fruit of lips that confess His name. And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for which such sacrifices God is pleased." Hebrews 13:15-16
"Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him--to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen." Romans 16:25-27
Absolutely!Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna Mae
Actually catholics and orthodox have more traditions in their religions, and these are partially used esp in the early years of the Luthern and the Anglican churches, The idea is that Mary is highly respected but not worshiped, there is a large line between love and respect of a person for their role in the life of our Lord and in their worship. To many who have not spent years in it, they are judgeing it from their teachings. We on the other hand have to ask why and how you can stop such traditions and customs ( since of course the Catholic and Orthodox teachings were the only ones for 1000 years of the history of Christianity)
So as one looks over the 2000 years of Christianity, those of us that follow Catholic and Orthodox Teachings and even Anglican teaching can't really understand how anyone would not feel that much love and respect for the mother of Christ
Prayer in Church. You mean the Mass? The Mass is the most important prayer of the Church and is prayed daily if possible but at least on Sundays and the Holy Days of obligation.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatkidsmom
The Mass is mainly a prayer to God in which we remember the life, passion, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The Mass culminates in Communion, the eating of the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus in the Holy Eucharist and thus becoming one with Him and with the Church.
During Mass we also ask for the intercession of the Saints and Angels when we pray:
I confess to almighty God,
And to you, my brothers and sisters,
That I have sinned through my own fault,
In my thoughts and in my words,
In what I have done, and in what I have failed to do;
And I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin,
all the angels and saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.
You can and should pray out of Church as well. All prayer is directed to God but can be addressed to the Saints for intercession.
The nature of your prayer changes depending on whom you address.Quote:
Mary, God, Jesus??
God, the Holy Trinity
God the Father
God, Jesus
God the Holy Spirit
You address God with adoration, praise and requests.
Mary, the Mother of God
St. Joseph her spouse and foster father of Jesus
And the rest of the Saints and Angels
You address the Saints and Angels with prayers of intercession.
That is wonderful!! Praise God!!Quote:
I am a cradle catholic and have just become extremely interested in what I have been doing all my life.
Yes.Quote:
I know that Jesus is the son of God. Do you pray to Jesus,
Yes.Quote:
who took his life for us?
Yes.Quote:
Do you pray to Mary for she is the one that gave birth to Jesus?
Yes.Quote:
Is there a correct answer for this?
I hope that helps. If not, don't hesitate to ask for clarification.
In the meantime, here are some great websites and books you can check out:
Welcome to the St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology
Books by Dr. Scott Hahn
Essential Resources
Catholic Community Forum Home
Sincerely,
De Maria
The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. God is made up of many parts and collectively make the one God. As we are all made up of many different parts as well and we make one. When I pray in Church. I pray to God. God is all things, within all things and creator of all. His word is written in all of us, yet it is up to us to open ourselves to the word. Pray to the father, asking in Jesus name. There are other prayers, that are said in church that do include others. We are asked to pray for each other. That is what we should do.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatkidsmom
As far as the correct answer for this. What does your heart, spirit and soul say to you. Have you listened for an answer? What is your spirit telling you to do? Abide by it and that is the correct answer for you personally.
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