First off, please forgive me if I don't get the terminology correct. I am decent at home repair but have no real training other than trial and error.

I'm trying to re-do my kids' bathroom, which has not been updated since the house was built. I removed the old tile floor and mortar bed and found that the toilet had leaked in the past. The floor was rotten in some places, though not totally gone. It also seemed a little too flexible in other areas-- certainly not as strong as I expected. Since I figured it would be another thirty years before the subfloor saw the light of day again (after I tile it), I decided to replace the subfloor. I have most of it up now and that went fine. My question is this:

I have a PVC soil pipe with a closet flange assembly that appears to be glued onto the pipe. Just in case I am not using the right terminology, let me describe it:

There is the PVC pipe that allows waste to leave. At the top of the pipe coming up towards the floor, there is a PVC flared piece that rises up to meet the toilet. There is a red flange that sits on this flared piece. The flange is smaller than the flare so when you pull the flange, it would pull upward the entire assembly.

The pipe itself and the piece that flares out to meet the toilet appear to be in fine shape and do not seem to need replacing. However, the red metal flange is showing signs of corrosion and wear to the point that I am not comfortable continuing to use it. However, since the flared piece of pvc is wider than that flange, I cannot simply remove it (i.e. it gets stuck on the flared part of the pipe and can only go so far).

How do I replace the red flange without cutting the pipe and putting in a new one? What is the proper procedure to lay the subflooring with a hole so that I can get the flared piece and the flange above it (so that I can eventually have the flange screwed in and flush with the new tile floor? Any advice from the experts is greatly appreciated!

Hi,

I don't have an answer but would like to know how you were able to remove the flange. I hope you finished the project :)

I'm in exactly the same situation where the floor is gone but the flange remains in place.

Thank you in advance

Ao7631...

If your situation is EXACTLY like amateurhour... then you want to cut off the old metal flange ring and install a new CLAMSHELL or bivalve type repair ring (see picture and click on the clam2.pdf). These are usually only sold at a plumbing supply house... ;) They are an exact replacement for the ring in place now.

The next best choice would be to purchase a closet repair ring (red flange below). These are available at home depot, Lowe's, menards, etc...

After removing the old flange (cut off with tin snips/aviation snips), install new flange and then screw to the floor. Install new johnnie bolts and wax ring and you should be good to go.

Let me know if this makes sense or if you have another question...

MARK

Mark,

I really appreciate the speedy response. I will try to explain my situation I hope there an easier way out. I'm a new home owner and maybe a bit over my head this time.

We decided to redo our powder room. After removing tiles, woven wire mesh and concrete I'm down to plywood sub floor. Since so many layers were removed I have a 1 1/4 gap between the plywood and the bottom of the flange. I though it may be easier to replace the flange with one that sits lower but it sounds like a huge work. Three ideas that come to mind are:

1. stuff concrete all around the flange. (allow for the screws)
2. Use few layers of wonder board on the floor. ( I believe they come on 1/4 and 1/2 thickness, lots of work and $$)
3. Keep buying and puring self leveling mix (NOT CHEAP)

I really hope there is a 4th solution. From what I've read online a 1 1/4 is too much for flange to stick out. The flange itself is in good condition.

I've attached pictures.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Alex

Hi Alex:

That flange is in great shape!

Well, first, what are you planning on installing for a finish floor now... tile or vinyl?

If tile, you will be adding a 1/2" cement board and then the tile and modified-thinset mortar...that will bring the floor up about an inch (includes thickness of 1/4 - 3/8" tile and 1/4" mortar bed). Then I'm betting you can screw the flange down, through the tile, and pull the flange tight to the floor that 1/4" left over... ;)

Keep in mind that the finish floor in the bathroom should be raised enough that it meets the floor in the next room at about the same level... can always make up a 1/4" to 1/2" difference between floors using a marble threshold if you are tiling.

If vinyl floor, then you would build up floor using exterior grade plywood on bottom and then a sanded and plugged plywood for top layer, etc...

Let me know what you plan on installing... see what we can think of from there.

MARK

Wow! I had forgotten that I had posted that last year. I checked a few times but no one ever responded. I ended up doing exactly what Mark suggested (the clamshell) and it worked perfectly. I'm not going to lie to you though, it was still a tricky process. As Mark said, you have to account for the width of the cement board and the tile, and still find a way to lock it all down without compromising the tile or the seal.

I assume you are doing tile and not vinyl. The buildup should be just about right if you put down the right thicknesses of board and mortar. I remember thinking that mine looked really high, but it turned out to be just right. You are going to have to drill through the top of the tile to bolt the new flange down. My recommendation there is to get yourself a couple of nice tile drillbits. Don't skimp, as the cheap ones don't work. Also, get two or three because even the expensive ones dull like crazy even though you are only drilling a few holes.

I feel a little silly adding my two cents, as obviously Mark is a professional and knows far better. All I can say is that his recommendations do work, as that was the process I followed. It has been about a year since I finished the room and there have been (*knock on wood*) no problems with any of it and it still looks great.

Hang in there on the project. There were many times during this and many of my other projects where I was ready to give up. But eventually it all comes together and you can take a lot of pride in the finished product. Good luck!

Thank you for that update AH... will help others down the road. Nice details on securing the flange ring!

Your contribution here is appreciated... ;)

Sorry we missed that post a year ago (I joined in that month).

MARK

Mark,

I will be doing a tiling job, just checked the tiles we purchased they are 3/8. Pushing on the flange there is very little play, hopefully enough to secure it to the tile.

I won't get it to for another 2-3 weeks, once I do I will post post-op pictures.

Thank you for your help AmateurHour and tips, I will defiantly think twice about redoing another bathroom :)

Alex

Hi Alex:

Worst case, the flange will not pull down. Then you will need to purchase an inside pipe cutter and cut the pipe lower and install an entirely new flange... if there is room between fittings to do so. May even need to remove the elbow from underneath... hmmm?

Set the 1/2" cement board in thinset mortar using a 1/4" notch trowel and then set the tile in modified-thinset using a 1/4" notch trowel (or 1/2" notch trowel if tiles larger than 13"x13") and you just might pull this off... ;)

Check out this website for more info. On cement board installation:

www.hardiebacker.com

Good luck!

Mark,

I think I'll have just enough height. I noticed that cement board gets installed on thin-set, that should add another 1/4. I just hope it's easy enough to work with so I can make a good cutout around the flange.

I'm eager to get this going, hopefully by next weekend.

Thanks a million!

Alex

Alex...

I mentioned that in my first post... glad you picked up on that! Very important to a long-lasting job!

Let us know how you make out... :)

MARK