A friend of mine asked me to lend $2500 to her, for her daughter who could not pay her
Morguage for the month because her husband lost days at work. I took the cash out
Of my savings a/c and as instructed, put it into my friends a/c at another bank.

It has been over a year and all I got was $200 back. She says she has 4 children and
They were having a hard time. I asked for $100 a month and still she says she has a
Problem getting it to me. I have proof that it is she and not her mother who needed
And received the $$$ because of her emails. I have proof that I gave it to her
Mother because I have the bank recipts. What are my options?

P.S. to the above post re personal loan. This is the state of NY

Your options are either to forget the debt or collect the debt. If you cannot collect voluntarily, then you will need the assistance of a court. There should be a small claims court or magistrate court in which you will not need the assistance of a lawyer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jammy23

A friend of mine asked me to lend $2500 to her, for her daughter who could not pay her
morguage for the month because her husband lost days at work. I took the cash out
of my savings a/c and as instructed, put it into my friends a/c at another bank.

It has been over a year and all I got was $200 back. She says she has 4 children and
they were having a hard time. I asked for $100 a month and still she says she has a
problem getting it to me. I have proof that it is she and not her mother who needed
and received the $$$ because of her emails. I have proof that I gave it to her
mother because I have the bank recipts. What are my options?

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Your option is Small Claims Court. It sounds to me like you lent the money to the MOTHER ("... asked me to lend $2500 to her, for her daughter ...") and that will be the Plaintiff. You had no direct relationship with the daughter.

You can also retain an Attorney to write her a letter... but she'll probably ignore the Attorney the same way she is ignoring you!

If you really want to attempt and get your money back then your only option is small claims court. You have a bit of a hairy situation in that you lent the money to one person on behalf of someone else so now you've got 3 parties involved. Ultimately the person you lent the money to (the mother) would be responsible for it since she's the one you actually lent it to. What she did with it after the fact (i.e. give it to her daughter so she could pay her mortgage) is irrelevant. As it is, that might not be what really ended up happening with your money but that's irrelevant as well. You'd have to obtain a judgement against and then collect from the mother.

Essentially when you loan someone money you need them to sign something saying that you loaned them X dollars and that they were going to pay you back X dollars a month for so many months and have it notarized. This way there is no possible way they can say that they don't owe you.

Right now, you have no proof that you loaned either of them any money as you said you took "cash" out of your bank and put it into their bank. (how kind of you to do this) Bank receipts are fine proving you took out the money. Just how do you plan on proving you gave her the money in the first place as a loan when you willingly put it into her bank account? Your friend can say you gave it to her out of the goodness of your heart and you have no proof otherwise.

You'll just have to kiss the rest of your money goodbye and chalk it up to a very, very costly lesson not to be repeated in the near future. Get everything in writing and notarized and then they cannot play games with you.

Oral agreements are only as good as the paper it's written on.

The fact that they instructed you to take out the cash from your account and put it into their account tells me that this is a scam that they have successfully pulled before on someone else.

What where you thinking??

I have spent considerable time googling this topic on the net since your original post and only came across the information stating that there needed to be follow up documentation on this loan that was made by oral agreement - not information that oral agreements are automatically binding.

You COULD try to win in Court with the emails that you say you have, but just how are you going to go about collecting off these deadbeats should you get the court order? If you have an order for wage garnishment, then all they have to do is quit their job and get another job and you will have to go through the wage garnishment paperwork all over again ad nauseum hoping you will be able to collect more than one payment before they skip on down the road. Or if you got a judgment against them, just how are you going to collect off that?

Sorry twinkie but oral agreements are binding and can be sued on. Except for a few exceptions, home sales, car sales and a few other items. Which may have specific laws about having to be in writing.

The only issue with a oral contract is proving the terms. Since people can lie. In her case they can show bank records of the money being taken out, and then that same amount of money being put into the other bank account,

So they have a fairly good case for court, The majority of small claims cases are always verbal agreements gone bad.

No one said they are "automatically" binding. They have to be proven. But the elements of a contract were there. The OP conveyed something to the friend. There were payments made but the full amount was not repaid. The friend's recourse is to lie in court and claim this was a gift, but the proof of repayment negates that.

By the way, I think I've mentioned before that notarizing a document only means that the notasry verified the identity of the people signing the document.

So tell me the fairy tale of just how the woman is going to make the deadbeats pay after she has her day in court and somehow gets a judgment on them... I'm all ears on that one guys. Reposses their canary, maybe?

Yes, notarizing establishes the fact that the parties are identified versus just plain signatures that could be falsified or forged. Every little bit of documentation helps, such as date of transaction, etc. Notarizing a document does not make it legal. It just helps out the lender identify just who they lent the money or whatever to.

She said the party only repaid $200 and I'm sure that was in cash. So who's name was on the cash, want to tell me that? Probably didn't give a receipt either to the person paying back the money. That person is going to go to court and lie like no tomorrow as they have a lot at stake NOT to pay a dime. What makes you think they are NOT going to lie? Because they are nice? Sure. What they did is far from nice and that's their story and they're sticking to it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by twinkiedooter

I have spent considerable time googling this topic on the net since your original post and only came across the information stating that there needed to be follow up documentation on this loan that was made by oral agreement - not information that oral agreements are automatically binding.

You COULD try to win in Court with the emails that you say you have, but just how are you going to go about collecting off these deadbeats should you get the court order? If you have an order for wage garnishment, then all they have to do is quit their job and get another job and you will have to go through the wage garnishment paperwork all over again ad nauseum hoping you will be able to collect more than one payment before they skip on down the road. Or if you got a judgment against them, just how are you going to collect off of that?

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No agreement is "automatically binding" - nothing in writing, nothing oral. Nothing. If that were the case all the Judges could go home and we could padlock the doors of Small Claims Court.

Let's see if the poster wins and then worry about collecting -

Instead of googling the net, try researching case law -

I say repossess the canary and see how far she gets the rest of her $2,500 minus $200 or $2,300 back.

I have to agree with Judy, the quality of your answers has been consistently of inferior quality. Yes, she will probably have trouble collecting on the judgement. But we haven't been discussing that part of it. The issue was whether she could get a judgement with the evidence she had. The fact is that she stands a good chance. You are assuming she was paid in cash, I'm making no such assumption.

When giving advice here, we have to take into account all possibilities. We can give our opinion of what will happen, but we also have to deal with what might happen or what can happen.

Hi everyone... first let me say "thank you sooooooooo much for your responses"...
Believe me, they are helpful even if some contadict the other. The last response on
This page came just in time. The previous payments were by money order and I
Now have a third payment and I will make a copy of the money order.

I too believe that Small Claims is the way to go. The daughter promises (via
Telephone) to pay me back and she sent me $100. I asked her mother to pay me
$100/month and let her daughter pay her back and she refused. What I believe
Someone said to be correct, is, I will have to sue the mother in small claims...
The daughter doesn't work and her husband is in construction and I don't know
His company name... and he didn't ask for a loan.

I don't think the daughter will continue to make payments without my calling and
Bothering her every month. I do not want to do this. I have learned an expensive
Lesson. I live for my social security and pension and believe me, it's not a whole
Lot of money to be giving out so freely. I just couldn't see the family losing their
Home. If I lose the rest of the money, at least I'll have the knowledge that I tried
To do the right thing... again. Thank you for your responses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jammy23

Hi everyone.....first let me say "thank you sooooooooo much for your responses" ....
believe me, they are helpful even if some contadict the other. The last response on
this page came just in time. The previous payments were by money order and I
now have a third payment and I will make a copy of the money order.

I too believe that Small Claims is the way to go. The daughter promises (via
telephone) to pay me back and she sent me $100. I asked her mother to pay me
$100/month and let her daughter pay her back and she refused. What I believe
someone said to be correct, is, I will have to sue the mother in small claims...
the daughter doesn't work and her husband is in construction and I don't know
his company name...and he didn't ask for a loan.

I don't think the daughter will continue to make payments without my calling and
bothering her every month. I do not want to do this. I have learned an expensive
lesson. I live for my social security and pension and believe me, it's not a whole
lot of money to be giving out so freely. I just couldn't see the family losing their
home. If I lose the rest of the money, at least I'll have the knowledge that I tried
to do the right thing......again. Thank you for your responses.

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You have no contract with the daughter, no direct connection, so your attempts to collect from her COULD be seen as harassment.

Your only recourse is to sue the mother.

Hope it goes well!

I'd like to ad that the daughter sent me a money order for $100 and I made a copy
Of it, before I deposited it. If I win in a small claims court... it's true. How will I get
My money back. The mother works... but the daughter doesn't work and her
Husband works at construction sites and his name doesn't appear anywhere.

That's the Catch 22 of getting a judgement. All the court does is award you a judgement in the amount specified. You then have to go about collecting it. This means finding where the debtor works or banks or what other assets they might have and then getting a order to attach those assets. If the debtor doesn't have any assets in their name, they are considered judgement proof. So you hold onto the judgement until their circumstances change.

Response to Scott Gem. There is a post above which states that I could be charged with
Harassment by calling the daughter every month... if that is the case, my only option is
Suing the mother, since I know where she works and knowing her circumstances, she
Is not going to leave her job for many reasons. She's totally tied into the benefits, etc.
Also, I don't know the bank a/c of the daughter or even what her husband looks like, or
Where he works. I'm not sure about the harassment because the emails I have from
The daughter show that I am angry with her lack of consideration, but I didn't openly
Make any threats. Thank you for your responses... I DO appreciate it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jammy23

Response to Scott Gem. There is a post above which states that I could be charged with
harrassment by calling the daughter every month....if that is the case, my only option is
suing the mother, since I know where she works and knowing her circumstances, she
is not going to leave her job for many reasons. She's totally tied into the benefits, etc.
Also, I don't know the bank a/c of the daughter or even what her husband looks like, or
where he works. I'm not sure about the harrassment because the emails I have from
the daughter show that I am angry with her lack of consideration, but I didn't openly
make any threats. Thank you for your responses...I DO appreciate it.

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I know you are not familiar with any of this but the daughter, her husband, her bank account, have absolutely nothing to do with any of this - she has no connection to you. You made the loan to her mother. Whatever happened to the money after that doesn't legally matter. If the daughter did or didn't make a payment to you makes no difference - she paid you on behalf of her mother who owes you the money.

And, yes, you are harassing the daughter by simply calling her - she doesn't owe you any money - morally perhaps but not legally!

Again - I wouldn't contact any of the parties and would file in small claims court - have you filed yet? File and end the agony! The mother does not appear to be intending to pay you and time does not appear to be changing that situation.


And Scott covered the collection process -

Whoops, been awhile since there was activity in this thread so I forgot that it was the mother you loaned the money to, not the daughter. Since that's the case, Judy is exactly correct. You can have no contact with anyone except the mother.