Sorry in advance for the length-it is all for a reason! I am 44-my wife just turned 40. We have 3 kids 5-7-11; married 17.5 yrs and I correctly assessed she was trying to cheat back in Sept/Oct.(I caught her texting her boob Dr.-who later spurned her due to her obsessiveness with which she was texting this man-sometimes several times per day-but rarely he responded)(however, one of his responses was to ask her to send naked photos of herself!-more on that later). According to my wife, nothing ever happened between them-not even a kiss or any contact at all...

She has since said she does not want a relationship with anyone as this Dr. told her under no uncertain terms that he did not want to pursue a married woman. Since then, it has taken me counseling by myself (my wife refused to all counseling) to determine that I want to stay married-call me crazy. I have slowly but surely begun to built trust back into our relationship. In the meantime, for the past year, she has a built a daycare business in our home. In addition to this, she is trying to establish a second business-which is where my problem really lies. She has been attempting to send people to this same plastic surgeon-in Beverly Hills-through referrals. The Dr. has guaranteed a referral fee for every customer sent to him based on the work to be performed. My wife has made up business cards for this second business and has bought a 2nd cell phone to accept incoming calls so as to not confuse the two businesses. This second business has yet to be at all successful; This 2nd Phone has a camera and photo texting feature and my wife used it to have my 11-yo daughter take provocative photos of her (fully clothed but on our bed) in short shorts and a tight fitting blouse-which she wore on Sat. night. Truly, she looks as good as she did the day we married-if not better shape etc!! I am a lucky man in this regard. Further, She sent the photo to her close friend whom she has known since high school, whom is married with her own kids.

My problem is trust again... I fear that my wife will send photos etc. in attempt to try to strike up a relationship once again with this Dr.! In addition, she has just turned 40 yo this past week and is always wanting to go dancing-sometimes 2x in a weekend! She just went on Sat. night with her best friend(btw-seperated and living in sin-bad influence on my wife) to celebrate her Birthday and I asked her to not drink and drive. She came in at 3am and the next day said she had a great time, going to two clubs. She said she had two drinks and danced with a very nice "white guy" she is hispanic and I am white- who was very respectful and polite, and said a lot of nice things to her-then she said she told him was married and that was that--according to her... I tried not to show jealousy, etc. based on our recent history to re-establish trust, but I was torn and wanted to ask further questions!! BTW, she said we would go dancing this coming weekend because I told her I wanted to go out.

How should I approach all of this? I know there is a lot going on but how much trust should I give without looking too needy, paranoid, etc. etc.? Help!

Well... mixed feelings here.

I think one thing that's happened is she's so happy with the results of her physical change that its dominating things a little. My partner has never been especially out of shape, but she did put on some weight at late 20's - early 30's. Granted, she still looked better than 80% of the population, but she then worked her tail off and got fit.

In fact she cranked her body in so hard that she was in better shape than ever in her life. It was impressive. Along with this came all the new clothes, and of course, attention from guys. Her daughter said even the high school boys were going nuts over her, and its not like she was trying to stir them up. All the time became "how do i look in this"?. it kind of got annoying... and for me to say it was annoying to watch my wife change clothes, it had to be extreme.

So... I think most all of this, even the dr thing, is tied to how she's feeling about her body at a time when a lot of women are struggling. I'm not saying what she did was right or reasonable. But I think I see where it comes from.

And as the guy who used to go out with big groups of friends and id be the one guy whod go out on the dance floor with the girlfriends and had a blast... some women just love to dance. And she's getting attention there too.

Look... my wife is beautiful, smart, and successful. She works in a male dominated industry, flies overseas at times, takes work trips... and she's even a bit of a flirt. If she wanted to cheat, she could. But I trust her. She's given me no reason not to, and she's probably the most grounded and honest person I know. She means what she says.

You are in a different place, knowing you caught her in the middle of something that was inappropriate.

I don't think its harmful to let her enjoy some attention. I don't even think its harmful to let her go out with the girls and dance, knowing she's going to dance with men.

I'm glad she's OK with you coming along. Ill go out with my wife and friends will poke at me when some young guy is buying her drinks and touching her arm. OK. I'm in the bar. She's having fun. If it gets out of hand ill go over and introduce myself and thank him for buying her drinks. If it gets ugly, well, I can handle that just fine.

So you've got issues of trust that are just going to take time to work out. And she might be going a little over the edge cause she feels good about herself. Both sides have to give a little.

Maybe you can plan a weekend getaway? My partner and I do this at least once every couple months. Drive a couple hours to a nearby city, rent a room, spend the evening together. Heck... once we even did this in town... got a sitter for the child and drove across town to a hotel room... great dinner, good blues, fun night.

So maybe let her have her nights out... but find ways to introduce yourself into the pic too. If she wants to dance, take her out for dinner and then to a great blues bar. Nothing like dancing with your lover in a blues bar.

Only time is going to tell the truth here. What did she say in therapy about the relationship? Was she unhappy? Bored? Etc?

kp2171: Thanks for the info. I too get very annoyed at watching my wife change clothes. She drives me and the kids crazy because she will take over 2 hours to get ready sometimes like a teenager!
BTW, she refused therapy saying this would be a place where she would be ridiculed for her viewpoints and I have to trust that that would never happen again. I believed her on this so no therapy for her. My therapist said get out for my sanity. What you don't know is that she only "dated" one serious relationship prior to marriage to me at age 23! It turns out she never got dating out of her system. She was probably 5-7 yrs too young now looking back to get married, but we fell in love. Etc the rest is history.

Also, don't you thing I am being big about this and very tolerant based on what my wife is putting me through? I am happy to deal with it because frankly I love the new and improved wife(more confident, etc) so in that regard I am spoiled...

I didn't read your entire missive because it seems from your opening, that your wife has give you a choice in the matter.

You can choose to go and probably learn to laugh with and at yourself again. You know, we are allowed to laugh!

Or Choice 2 , stay home and worry, worry about exactly what type of fun your wife is having. Me I'd take choice one.

Actually, I did take that choice early in 1980. The City of Virginia Beach Adult Education was holding Colonial style dancing classes at the then "Plaza Junior High school".

Unfortunately for me, the City of Virginia also provided the gym to the to the HS Basketball Officials preseason training and testing.

I blew off one such meeting to go to dance class only to find out the City had set us up to dance in the ante-room of the gym.

I got to tell you, two groups collied in the hall, well lets just leave it at I now knew the term, "assistance" from the crowd!

But we still had fun

Well, sure... pat yourself on the back a little for doing the hard work that it takes to hold a marriage together sometimes.

Even if you don't go through therapy together, clearly there are some things you two need to be able to talk about.

Disappointed therapy wasn't something she was interested in. it's a selfish decision on her part.

I would highly suggest going out with her. She is seeking attention, and as hard as it might be, you are going to have to give her LOTS of it. If she starts telling you she doesn't want you to go along dancing with her, BIG red flag...

Ayashe-Thanks for your input-yes, she has become a changed woman over our married life(after all, I agree-who the he-- stays the same anyway?) I realize I am faced with a major life decision here--should I stay or should I go? Many have said this is Mid life crisis big time-and I am stuck in the middle of it. Do I ride it out or suck it up and move on? Our 3 kids would not like the move on one bit of course. In the meantime, I enjoy spending time dancing with her it truly is fun-but financially, all these weekends are very expensive and she doesn't want to grow up and take financial responsibl. For all of this-she would rather have a safe environment with me and eat her cake too... Oh by the way, did I mention that I am still in love with my wife?? Tough situation!!

I went through this phase as well. I think I was maybe 30.. having said that, I was also married by the age of 15. I was desperate to feel that I was anything other then "his wife" or "their mother" so maybe that is a mid life crisis. I was going out every weekend, dancing, and drinking, (drinking more then I had any business doing) and one morning, I just got sick of waking up and feeling lousy and stopped going. No one can tell you whether to stay, or to go, and listening to your heart and brain, isn't much help either, since they both tell you something different, I really stick by my advice, of GO WITH HER... and see what kind of interaction is taking place. If she just sits at the table with you, and doesn't dance.. well chances are, she is acting differently when you are not around. If she is dancing, laughing, and bringing you into the fun with her, chances are she really just needs the "going out" outlet, where she is woman first, even if it's for just a few short hours, twice a weekend.

Exactly what my wife is going through!! Is this feeling of being anything other than a wife and mother rational? Do you feel like it is something I can react to or better left alone? It is like having a 16 yo in the house---and for how long? Give me a break!!

I will go with her, just because of a bit of insecurity as well to be honest-but also to find this out! :) BTW, I am treating her with the utmost of respect---leaving her lots of room to be herself and treating her like a woman and only being supportive during all this... Further, whereas before as a husband I could ask her a "fair" question about her general life, such as her reaction to a phone conversation she was having in my presence, etc. and before there was her sharing about it... Now, she is defensive and never forthcoming with any information about anything-even so far as closing our bedroom door and locking me and the kids out at night- to deal with her life(phone calls, etc). This is very annoying. I just want to know that at least I know there is a light at the end of the tunnel and this effort will somehow pay off!!

Do not just let her behavior go... she has no right to hide things from you (phone conversations etc) this is a bad sign! I highly suggest you don't give her too much space, because in our minds at the state she is... your neglecting us, you don't find as sexy like you used to. My "mid life" lasted almost 2 years, both real life and on line. Listen to your gut, but don't let her abuse you either...

One part of me says, what did I miss in my relationship for the last 17+ yrs(marriage)? Did I just have it way too easy? Did I not give 100% effort to our relationship for all these years that I needed to that I now am giving? I feel guilty about this part because I am frankly not used to giving her this much attention and feel like maybe I should have all these years (she never asked/truly needed it I guess until now)!!

As far as the sexy part, she truly looks awesome now-for a 40 yo she looks 29!! She has worked her body back into shape after 3 kids and for that I am very proud. I have tried to keep up with her in this area, too. However, she has always been too damn honest about everyone and everything around her. For instance, I tell her that she looks better than she ever has, with the exception of our wedding day. Her answer(typical) "I know that-you don't have to tell me something I already know" this (arrogance?) is an average conversation with her lately. If I had told her this 2 years ago(before all this), she would have probably looked at me in horror and disgust to say what are you talking about, I have varicose veins, etc, and need a boob job. Well, the boob job was 2 yrs ago, so that was taken care of.
I just am not sure if this is truly her or the MLC she is going through that is leading her to positive self talk(or whatever you want to call this overconfidence and arrogance). Ultimately, I WILL NOT allow her to push me around, but I am wondering if I am being manipulated into a corner that I cannot get out of, or do I stand up to her even though this could upset this "psychosis" she is going through that you said lasted 2 years?! Aahh!!

Uh-ho,

Your wife's behavior is unacceptable as I am sure you know by now. Reining her in is going to be very difficult. You one wants someone else to cut the legs from under them.

Getting her attention is fairly simple. All you have to do is to remove your name from any and all of the accounts that you share. I caution you that might be wise to place a small add one of the birdcage gazettes alerting the world that can no longer be responsible for the current and future debts incurred by the lady.

It will catch up to her and all of a sudden there will be cards telling her that her limit has been frozen for the foreseeable future.

She will fracture the Ozone layers she hunts for you. When the two of you tangle you have to maintain absolute control of yourself. Don't raise to her anger.

You must let her burn out and then, tell her you and her as husband and wife cannot her new chosen lifestyle rip you guys up. If that's the lifestyle she wants, then so-be-it! Your choice is still to love her but not in an open marriage where anything goes.

donf: Toughest thing I have been through since Dad,( then Mom later) died... I hope your suggestion works because I am planning to close my half of the joint checking accts. Whoever suggested joint accts anyway was a fool. Why joint checking accounts e-v-e-r? It makes it harder to balance atm w'd's etc etc.. Anyway, as for her bills(credit cards, etc) she is already asking to "borrow" from me because she is tapped... funny how this works!. I told her to expect my $$ to be not charity, but just that-borrow. And this will be the last time she borrows. No more sugar daddy on my end. She will eventually come around that she cannot keep up this lifestyle and survive anything meaningful... Thanks donf!

UH-oh,

The problem is not the accounts nor the fact that they are jointg. The problem is with the persons usinh the accounts.

My wife and I have had joint everything for the last 42 years. All I care about is if I need to buy some new fool toy, is there money to do that.

She knows what needs to be done with our money. She never buys anything expensive without talkng to me first..

Uh-oh, sorry about your situation. I agree with what others have advised and said.

Plan A is you are married. Love your wife. Spend time together [ a date nights ] and you can have separate time apart with friends or other activities. Talk to her, ask her about her night[s] out as hard as that may be. Do not be critical - she will do it with or without your knowledge- it will drive her away. It may be a good sign that she can open up enough enough to tell you that she danced with another, if that is all that happened, without getting jealous or angry - again easier said then done. It shows her that you trust her.
Gifts. Do something, that she usually does and finds tedious, like cooking or the laundry.
Touch her affectionately. Be the loving father to your kids, not that you are not. You can't control what she does, only how you react, and that should be with patience, kindness and support [ even if you do not think the 2nd job will work out financially ]. I don't know what kind of physical shape you are in but if she looks as good as the day you got married so should you , because appearances seem to matter a great deal to her. Do your own things that you enjoy, who wants to be with a depressed person vs someone who is passionate and upbeat about something going on in their life? If she cheats or wants a divorce that is her choice. That is something beyond your control, because you are, by actions, a trusting, supportive, righteous, faithful, loving husband and father. You have been true to yourself first, and you have your integrity. It is her loss in the end.

Plan B is that while Plan A is going on, you prepare for divorce - know all the financials - tax returns, credit cards, bank accounts, credit reports, deeds, titles, soc security #s, insurance policys - home, life, health etc. retirement account[s], investments, assests and liabilities. Build supportive relationships now with your children, family, friends, co workers now - you'll need them.


I hope this is just a phase in your marriage and look back on this as a wild time; but if she is happy with herself doing these things; short of proof of cheating or an affair, not that you should be looking; be happy for her and with her. I wish the best for you both.

I am doing both A and B: Dealing with B is fun because in the process of her deciding to be a 16 yo again-, she also decided to allow our mortgage,auto and other credit payments to lapse and get very behind late summer-no I don't know where the money went!! So I have recovered from that pretty much, now dealing with all the financials from now going forward..
In the meantime, I am trying Plan A to rebuild relationship and keep up with her in every way. Yes, I am also in the best shape of my life despite 3 grade school age kids and homework every night-I love it... She is very particular about looks-(see 2-3 hours to get ready for just about any event-ugh) no sex for now because wife has child abuse issues and very non-orgasmic-plus she loves me, but no romantic spark at all right now due to the above... Any suggestions here?

PS To clarify one comment above---i said she loves me--With this I mean that yes-she is in fact going through Mid life crisis mode, but deep down she still loves me based on my instincts...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Uh-Oh23

no sex for now because wife has child abuse issues and very non-orgasmic-plus she loves me, but no romantic spark at all right now due to the above..... Any suggestions here?

---

You sound like a good man who's trying his level best to do right by his kids and his wife in a very difficult situation.

The above comment, plus her arrogance and overconfidence, tell me that she has some very deep wounds and scars that impose some fairly stringent limits on her ability to function as a mature adult. She desperately needs therapy to help her work through this, but you can't make her want what she needs, or force her to do what she doesn't want.

Probably one of the hardest things we have to do in life is let people we love do things that "any fool can see" are self-destructive. It happens more often with our kids, but it also happens with spouses, parents, and friends. It's the downside of freedom and individual responsibility, so I don't think there's any cure for it that isn't worse than the disease.

I'm living my own variation on the themes in your story, so I really do empathize.

ordinaryguy: You are also right on the money. She is a "perfectionist". But she will do what she tells others not to do-hypocrite. . Also--she is very verbally abusive at home in that she has not only a very hot temper/short fuse all the time, but an impatience that is mind boggling-she cuts all of us family members off mid sentence, among other things. She also seems to have this sense of entitlement to a certain lifestyle that I help provide her that is arrogance personified. I wish there was a way that I can get her to see what she does to us as a family(3 kids)?! As for therapy, Ha! When I confronted her about both personal and marriage therapy, she said why should I go somewhere where I know what they are going to say? They just tell you how bad you are, etc. I said you don't know until you try it and she just rolled her eyes so to speak... I know this is a lot of negative about someone I love but this is truly because I am sucked in and I really care...