I need help. My wife and I have been married for 2 years/together for 4 total. My wife just finished grad school so we decided to move to a different state to start our "real" life. About 3 months ago she blows me out of the water with "I don't think we are happy together and I don't know if we will ever be. I don't know if we want to be ok for the rest of our lives. We're good, but not great. We need to figure out if we want to stay together or try to find that person who we're truly passionate about." So this hits me like a ton of bricks, perhaps because I had my head in the sand for the past 4 years I don't know. I start asking questions as to why she feels this way and start getting tough answers. Biggest problem for her was that we don't have that "chemistry and doesn't think we ever did, and our sex life stinks." I agreed it had been lacking, but attributed it to her school and several medical conditions that didn't help things. I feel like she's leaving something out so I keep asking and finally get that "she has chemistry with someone she works with, and wonders why she has these feelings, and the things that are lacking in our relationship is why she feels this way." We talked this out and agreed that she would have limited contact with this person since we needed to work on our relationship.

Fastforward to 10 days ago. Things have definitely improved in the bedroom and I feel we have made improvements to our relationship. She gets a phone call from an ex-boyfriend (who lives 400 miles away) whom she has always referred to as the devil (she admittedly had "the best sex of her life" with him but he had cheated on her for a year straight). It didn't really bother me since her disdain for this person was clear. But she started having extended coversations with him and I asked her why she felt the need to talk to someone who she disliked so much. She said she needed closure since it was a difficult break and she wouldn't mind having him as a friend since they went through things together. This response didn't settle my feelings about the situation and their conversations continued. I explained to my wife that the relationship she was involving herself in with him did not help the situation we were in and could only hurt. She didn't seem to think that anything was wrong because she was lacking friends to talk to, but she said she'd try to curb the discussions while I was around since it made me uneasy (like this helps!). Now I get the phone bill and see the amount of text messages and phone calls that were made between them and I start to "freak out" a little about the amount of time spent talking and my mistrust for her starts. I never thought that I was or would be that "jealous/controlling" person that would spy on my wife and never had the need to, but my intense sense of urgency to save our marriage made me feel like I had to see what they were talking about. BAD IDEA from my mental sanity standpoint. First she tried to hide his number in her phone by giving it the same name as one of her close friends, then the emails and text messages were disgusting. She is never one to lie to me (not in her nature), but when we had talked about how the conversations bothered me she said "it's not like we're having phone sex", LIE. The emails were absolutely horrible for me to read all the meanwhile she's going out and buying a "sex toy" to use while reading the emails and phone calls. I had brought up the situation again yesterday, but she said the conversations were very casual about work and stuff, but they didn't talk as much as before. LIE. Well last night she went out with her mom to a local bar and 10 minutes after she left the house she started a text message with him where in the end she replied "I love you" and his response was "I love you too". This made my heart explode and I haven't been able to sleep all night thinking about how to handle this. She doesn't know that I have read emails and texts, and I can't stand knowing what I know only to see her lie to my face and act as nothing is wrong, so this really can't end well either way. How do I bring this up while trying to preserve this marriage, or can I, or should I bring it up or is this the end for us? I've tried to get her to come to counseling with me but she is a psychologist herself (not a counseling one though), and says she doesn't see what else they could help her with and that time really is what she needs. I'm physically sick over this situation and it isn't helping things at work. Sorry for the long post, but I don't have many people to turn to with this situation.

I know it's a bitter pill to swallow, but it sounds like emotionally, she's already gone.

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How do I bring this up while trying to preserve this marriage, or can I, or should I bring it up or is this the end for us?

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You're asking the right question, but the answer may be awhile coming yet.

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I've tried to get her to come to counseling with me but she is a psychologist herself (not a counseling one though), and says she doesn't see what else they could help her with and that time really is what she needs.

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If she won't go with you, go by yourself. You're going to need all the help you can get, so don't be bashful about asking for it. This site can help, but it's no substitute for face-to-face, one-on-one contact.

It would be good to find someone to talk to in person.
You might be able to work things out with her if it's brought out into the open, but it sounds as if she's been unhappy in the marriage for a while. In the meantime, you might have reached the stage where you have to either confront her or leave. This isn't something that you'll be able to contain within yourself for a long time.

This can't be easy, and I cannot even begin to imagine what you're going through. Take care of yourself.
Kal

Thanks, for your insight-it helps. I did end up having this conversation with her, now it just adds that extra layer of crap to our issues. She says they have a unique relationship and that she would never want to be with him again, but they are trying to work through the "way they were" and break those habits so that they can just be friends. I know it's my own insecurities getting in the way, but I just don't trust this situation. Things were going fairly well before this whole event occurred, and now she just seems to resent the fact that I "broke her trust" and I'm trying to be more open to her and show affection which is just being rejected. I don't want to go on like this for another 6 months, and have it end horribly, but I'm not quitting this relationship right now. I just don't know how to get her to turn around and see things differently and for myself to remove the suspicion.

Other than seeing a counselor, does anyone have suggestions as to trust building techniques?

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Originally Posted by troubled_hubby

does anyone have suggestions as to trust building techniques?

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There are lots of ways to build trust, but all of them require two people who want it to be built. In the story you've told, I only see one.

I posted a couple of weeks ago when I found out my wife was having "inappropriate" emotional conversations with a co-worker and an ex-boyfriend. I found this out by doing things I was ashamed of-reading her email, text messages... I didn't trust her and her actions and I wanted desperately to try and stop it before something physical happened. WELL, Tuesday night after she had a one-on-one with our counselor, we were talking about how it went and she tells me that she DID cheat on me with her co-worker back before Christmas, and the fact that she was talking to her ex was that she was trying to figure out why she cheated (since he cheated on her). To her our sex life was horrible and sometimes painful. She had this chemistry with this person and felt like she had to see if it was her physically that was broken or if it was us. She said that they both knew it was wrong and yaddayadda, but she started having those feelings again once they saw each other again at work and she probably would have cheated again if I had not caught her doing the things she was. She says this was a wake up call and she realizes what was going on was COMPLETELY wrong. I am going through all the hurt, anger and emotional rollercoster one would expect from hearing all this.

We have been going to counseling for a couple of weeks and I thought that things were getting better, and I had been able to be intimate with her again. Now this just sets me back a mile as to where I am in the situation and where she is. She says that she has really seen an improvement with us and she is really working on her issues. If our sex life was so horrible to her that she felt forced to sleep with someone else is there really any hope? I feel like if she had been truly honest about our relationship we could have explored all of our options, but she took the wrong way out. Being the guy, I can say that while our sex life wasn't GREAT, but I had no idea that it was that bad for her. She has said that she just doesn't feel the drive and passion to be intimate with me, or has ever really felt it. I know this is a question she needs to answer, but is there anything to do to work on this?? I know I'm trying to FIX things and that is how I am, but we both feel like everything else in our relationship was good. I'm just not sure if I am ready to call this thing quits. Just wondering if anyone has been through something like this, it's helpful to get this off my chest now, since our next session isn't until Tues. Thanks

Firstly, I really feel for you. Recently I had doubts about my partner and guessed his email only to find he was having an affair with someone. WHen confronted he lied, then came clean that it was a prostitute. I can empathise with the pain and hurt you are going through it shatters ones reality to the core and this in itself is so hard to come to terms with. Anyway reading your situation I think that you are in a good place (although it doesn't feel that way) Your wife has "come clean" and is willing to go to counselling and look at herself in all this. She sounds like she has seen that she needs to work on her own issues.

It is easy to say that she should have done this before getting involved with someone else but she didn't... you just have to work from where you are right now. Take each day as it comes and see how things work out via counselling, rebuilding trust within your relationship and setting boundaries. If she is willing and demonstrates a commitment to doing these things I think you are on the road to recovery. It is only natural to want to fix everything straight away, but as the old cliché goes... it takes time.

Don't worry about the sex side of things yet.. focus on rebuilding the trust first... sex can be improved and is only a small part of a healthy relationship. Sometimes it takes something like this that seems so wrong at the time to build something better for the future. My best wishes are with you and wish you every success.

As for me, I didn't choose to rebuild the trust again. I simply couldn't do it. Choosing to be on my own is just as painful though.

I went through a similar situation but my wife chose an x-neighbor,it was 7 years into our marriage,it hurt a lot and still hurts if I think about it. Be careful with your words, I'm sure you have a lot of angry thoughts and words floating in your head right now. Also be careful of your actions, if your like me all I could think about for years is how I could show the man a world of hurt like I was going through, and that made it worse, I had to learn how to forgive him and her which took me quite a while.Like I told some one once its easier to forgive than forget, I just have to put it out of my mind and not dwell on it or I get myself in trouble.I think some how you and her have to come to an agreement that she'll never see him again which might be difficult if she works with him, but you need to make her promise it and stick to it,My wife said she'de sware on the Bible that she wouldn't do it again or ever talk to him again. I thought this was sort of hypacritical at first because she already broke one of the ten commandments but I thought I need to start some where. There's aso a proram called Retrouvaille Marriage program if your both serious about getting it back together, it worked for us it's a lot of hard work but worth it if you want to save your marriage. We've been married almost 20 years now. Good Luck and God Bless!

troubled_hubby asks: "If our sex life was so horrible to her that she felt forced to sleep with someone else is there really any hope?" I think, to the extent you feel and believe you are part of the problem, then you can forgive and forget. Communication and trust: those are the Big Two that we talk about time after time. But if one is putting down the other, there is no communication; and if one ridicules the other, then there isn't much trust, either. If you were communicating and trusting her in good faith, then leave her. If you were cold to her or just not listening, then give her (and yourself) some time to adjust, as those above have described.

I think at the time that she cheated on me I was not suspicious at all. We had just had a lots of family over for Thanksgiving and were getting ready for Christmas. The communication was somewhat strained in regards of the issues we were talking about (I went into a bit of depressive state after she told me all of her feelings in Oct and that she had feelings about a coworker). But I trusted her when she said she would stop talking to this person(she is not the person who would cheat and talked about how much it hurt her when others had done it to her). I started to become a little suspicous only after the fact she cheated, she started to be more secretive and I felt like she was pushing me away if I tried to help her out with just normal things. Then I got the phone bill and it was a little higher than normal and while going through the bill is when I noticed that she had been texting and calling this person A LOT and the downward spiral started from there.

I think that I can possibly get through this as I am an extremely forgiving person, but I don't want her to fool herself if she really doesn't feel anything for me and for us to go through this again in a couple of years. This is the part that I can't get over and I think about all the time. I think the trust issues can be healed and dealt with, but the other things I don't know.

Thank you for all your experiences and thoughts, it does help.

Communication and trust, very important. Sex life horrible, very important. If she has unmet needs along with her own issues to work on, she needs your support. If you want this marriage to work, sex has to work for her. Women who are not satisfied frequently seek out satisfaction (or at least the excitement of a 'forbidden" relationship) from other men.

She is willing to go to counselling with you and has been able to tell you how she has broken her vows. She has admitted that she has stuff to work on. The marriage can be saved, if you two figure out how to have sex that is mutually satisfying. Sorry, if that is a bit blunt; many years of tiptoeing around the truth has not been effective for me.

Honestly I'm glad to read this... Only because I am going through the same thing now. Except it was with my best friend not her co worker. I love her so much that I want to stick it out. My wife is very young and made a stupid mistake. I know that she is truly sorry. And honestly forgiving her was really easy. The biggest problem I am having is with him. He won't even tell me the truth. My biggest fear is that I am going to go through hell forgiving this and putting it behind me and then it will happen again. I think about it 24-7. So far things are going good. We are working on our marriage and sex life. The best thing I can tell you is that if you want to stay with her. Then try to work through it. Your going to make mistakes along the way. I know I have, there are things I wish I would have handled better. But I tell my wife everyday how much I love her so that no matter how much I mess up... she knows that I still love her. Good luck and if you really do want to talk. Let me know. Maybe we can help each other figure this out.

Mayfairlady is right rebuilding trust is the first issue you need to work on, without it it will be a rocky road.
Work through everything make sure she is being honest with herself as well as with you that she does want to work things out.
Not trying to make excuses for her and I don't know how good the communication between you two is, she may have felt she had to turn to somebody else because she didn't know how to tell you what she really felt about things. Through counseling she just may find that she can be open and honest and it could strengthen your relationship.
As long as she doesn't cheat on you again give her the benefit of the doubt and work on your relationship. First time can sometimes be chalked up to a mistake, after that it is some deeper issue(s) that just might not be able to be worked through.

If she thinks being intimate with you is 'so bad' you could both work on figuring what you can do different to make it better.

Well, I am the "cheater" in a similar situation. I can offer my advice though. It is actually kind of a theory I guess.

There are two types of cheaters. People who cheat because they want out. And people who cheat because they don't know how to deal with a problem in the relationship.

The first group is usually the ones who feel no remorse and don't give a crap... etc. You can guess what those relationships are like. Obviously good for no one.

The second group gets tricky. These are the people, like myself, who use another relationship as a tool to deal with a problem in their current relationship. I used mine as a safety blanket because I was afraid to be alone if my then GF broke my heart again. It sounds like your wife wasn't happy with your sex life (which from my hours and hours of reading books and blogs is a very common reason) and she wasn't able to come to you and figure it out. I don't know why she wasn't able to do that, and honestly, she probably doesn't know either.

I sounds like she is sorry and knows she made a mistake. It sounds like she is getting to the root of her problems. Which is good. The problem with the whole situation, which is not fair at all, is now the fate of the relationship shifts into your hands. You have to decide what happens next. This is what my wife is having trouble with right now. I wish she felt like you, but sadly she does not and despite my best efforts my marriage is teetering pretty hard towards the bad side of the fence.

I have put myself in her shoes a million times over the last 6 months asking myself if I could do what I am asking her to do. I came up with yes. As long as she admitted the mistake, told me she loved me and that it was over and she wanted to spend the rest of our lives together. I would take her word and try to move on. Would I be mad, yes. Would I fret over it for a long time... yeah probably. To me though there is one absolute truth. I didn't marry the woman I could live with, I married the woman I could not live without. By nature of that virtue, I would forgive her for anything as long as she could be happy with me. She is my happiness.

To answer what seems to be your burning question, I think intimacy is probably one of the easiest things to fix in a relationship as long as both parties want to fix it. My wife wants nothing to do with me romantically. You guys both want it though! That is AWESOME!

Just try to be open about sexuality with each other. My wife and I had a great sex life... I MEAN GREAT... but that was because we were always open and honest and experimented openly with different ideas. I think your booty department is missing the openness it needs. Find out some of your wife's fantasies. Be open, maybe try some of them. I even got to the point that I was open to sharing my wife with another man... something I never thought I would be able to deal with. It is just sex... as you can tell now... the rest of your relationship doesn't depend on it, but it's desires need to be fulfilled.

Go to the porn store. Get some toys. Watch some pron. Find out what toots eachothers horn. Will there be uncomfortable times... sure! Who cares though. Really, try some stuff out and talk without judging. You will be amazed what it solves!

I hope you find a way to make nookie time work for you guys.

P.S. You mind talking to my wife and sharing with her how you got or are getting over your wife's cheating? PM me and I will shoot you her email. She could sure use someone who has a positive outlook in a similar situation.

wewed100606, I don't care how many times you place yourself in your spouses shoes. YOU WILL NEVER KNOW WHAT THEY FEEL.

I am going through this right now. Six weeks ago, I caught my wife having a thing with a co worker who I also know and have helped out on many occasions. I got a double whack. She says that here was absolutely no sex involved. I don't know if that is true but I will leave it alone. I do not know if I want to know the answer.

We have been together 15 yrs and married 12 and over the past year I have been very insecure in marriage. That is why I spied and I was correct. The hurt, rage, anger, deceit, and wanting to end my life over this has been very trying. We have 2 kids and they are the world to me. I will protect them the best way that I can during this messed up time.

What she did is wrong and I really hope she knows this. She said she does and that she is fully committed to our marriage and will do what ever it takes to make this right. I have also chose to do this. She is my world and I am not giving up. I know that I have trust issues and that this will take time to heal. The thing that gets me is that she still works with the guy and they have to have communication. She assures me that this affair is over.

She said she didn't think I loved her and that I would just get mad and blow it off. She really didn't think that I would be in so much pain. I never cry and now 6 weeks after finding out, I haven't stopped.

The reason I replied is that I never want a cheater to say they know what we are going through. In truth if they did, they never would have done this to us. I would not wish the PAIN that I have on my WORSE ENEMY.

Remember, when you cheat, you cheat not only on your spouse but your kids, your parents, inlaws... on everyone.

wewed100606 PLEASE Don't EVER SAY THAT YOU PUT Yourself IN OUR SHOES. THESE SHOES YOU Don't KNOW.

Time to talk it out as best you can.

Sex is complicated. Then we get in our own way.

Time to get into her head before you get into her pants.

What is she missing...

Doesn't mean you are doing the wrong things.. but understand that outside of sex... she is missing something.

Doesn't mean you are wrong. Doesn't mean you aren't. Means that she is going outside the marriage for some reason. She might not be fulfilled and it might be your "fault". She might not be fulfilled and it might have nothing to do with you, which would mean she wasn't in line with the vows she took.

So... its time for some honest talk. Even good marriages, like mine, take hard work. Need communication and stepping back when things get hard or ugly.

So all you can do is all you can do... after that... if she's isn't willing to work, then there is nothing else left. A strong marriage takes two people willing to work through the hard times. Its easy when its easy... it's the rough spots that make you face the truth.

Thank You for your posts, this is getting tougher than I had imagined. I feel like she's just here playing a waiting game now. There have been some recent events in her life that kind of put this whole situation on the back burner, so I'm having a hard time judging where she is in this and how she's feeling. For some reason I feel like she's treating me like I did something wrong and she's the victim in this whole ordeal. We had an argument about things this weekend and since then I can't seem to shake this feeling. I want her to put some effort into this and show that she is sorry for things that have occurred, but it seems like I'm the only one who is showing her affection. If she's having a bad day, I come to her and try to be there for her, even if I know she's not happy with something I've done. But if I'm having a bad day for whatever reason, she is immediately asking me "why are you mad at me?" in a defensive tone and pulls herself away from me. It just hurts when she does this, because it's seems to me like she really doesn't care. The only thing that I would like from her in these situations is to be there and show she cares. I've tried discussing this with her yesterday and I got the "why are you mad at me" question again. Should I have to explain in so many words why I might be mad at her (she cheated). I think the real emotions of the situation are finally coming to me and it is just a rollercoaster for me, some days are great some days I'm down. I just wish she would acknowledge her actions and show that she's sorry and wants to be here. I guess I'm questioning her true intentions and emotions, which comes down to the trust issue. The old saying "actions speak louder than words" comes to my mind here, she says she wants to stay and work on this, but when I need her she is distant and plays the victim. How can I stay strong through this and not blow this up before time has had a chance to pass and we can see where we really are and not just running off false emotions? I don't want to be distant, but I don't want keep putting myself out there and my feelings not be reciprocated

wewed100606, do not ever say that u put yourself in your wife's shoes, you have no idea what it's like to be cheated on! The hurt and betrayal she must feel is overwhelming, you say your sex life was great, then why did u cheat? She won't have sex with you-GOOD! Sorry if this was blunt but I don't sugar coat and maybe it's time for you to take responsibility for what you did

Well I never thought I would see the day. But here I am.

It happened yesturday, YES it is still fresh in my mind playing over and over and over.
The only difference from what I read from everyone that went through this is the fact that it was in my own home. I walked in the house early from work to surprise my wife and well... if you lived it you know the feeling if you haven't please don't say you know how it feels. I have told my wife from the beginning that I DON'T TOLEARTE infdility and I wouldn't even think about it twice if I ever was in that situation. But here I am crying my eyes out. I feel with everyone of you and I get encouraged that there could be hope. Although my pain now is probably hiding it. Every time I close my eyes I am replaying the scene.. Granted she said she never slept with him and I want to believe that. But fact of the matter he was in my house almost naked when I walked in. I don't know if I should thank God for walking in at that time to stop it or not because I got a the BIGGEST PUNCH in the gut. I felt the wind sucked out of me. She has been crying her eyes out to telling me how sorry she is and how she dosen't know what was going on in her mind but she wants to be with me and continues to swear that they never had SEX.
Thanks for all your blogs, I cried reading some of them but helped me out also. Sorry I didn't answer your question directley but for now we are taking it a day at a time and my wife is seeing a doctor because she has been under stress and depression. Maybe that is what drove her to this.

I hope it ends up with a happy ending.

Troubled Husband... Don't worry about her... you can't fix her. If she is a habitual cheater than her life will be forever cheating and searching for "THE" marriage.

What you can do is fix yourself to regain your marriage and/or make yourself prizable for your next mate.

From reading your Post, you are not a Man. You are a Nice Guy and a Chump. Yes, I am insulting you. I was a Chump and the Nice Guy. My wife cheated on me a few years ago, too.

I pulled my marriage together and still a work in progress.

Read, "The ways of a Superior Man" by David Dieda.
You have to stand up for yourself and VALUE yourself.
How can she Respect you, if you don't VALUE yourself.
I bet she doesn't Respect you.
Be more picky than her. Be more selective than her.
Demonstrate Higher Values than hers.

I am willing to bet the Man she is cheating with, demonstrates Higher Value by having a filter of surreal Excitement of Secrecy.

This is a way of Improving yourself.