Hi,
We have got what is now a 7 month old black lab mix. Nearly everything I've read about house training involves crate training. Unfortunately, our puppy has some severe anxiety issues (separation anxiety being one of them). We are currently working with a trainer to try to help her with these. The biggest issue is that when we tried to crate train her (and we tried for a considerable amount of time) she would pee in her crate within minutes of us leaving the house. She was OK at night when we were in the room, but as soon as left alone she would go to the bathroom in her crate (we know it wasn't a time issue because on more than one occasion we were gone under a half an hour and she would still go in her crate). We spent about a month and a half trying to get her used to the crate but eventually gave up because it seemed to be much worse for her. Does anyone have advice on how best to house train her when we are not home? She is very good when we are here and goes to the back door, but when we are at work we have not had much luck with her holding it or even when we leave the house for more than 2 or 3 hours. From what I've read a 7 month old should be able to hold it at least 6 hours or so. Any advice would be appreciated.

You crate will not work with this dog. And your trainer should know that with that dog crate training is not the way to go. Since your dog has anxiety issues it is afraid so that's why it is going pee in the crate. Take it out of the crate and lay newspaper on the kitchen floor and let the dog go bathroom on the paper, then take the paper and lay it outside and have the dog go bathroom on that paper. Let the dog smell it so that it knows to go bathroom outside. Then when the dog is inside and you guys leave have the dog in a area that's caged by fence or something, (not in a cage or crate).

If your dog is displaying severe separation anxiety, then the peeing when you are gone is most likely due to the anxiety. Which means that this isn't really a housetraining issue. Your dog knows what you want, but the anxiety overrules that. The good news is that as you work on the anxiety, the house soiling should diminish.

You say you are working with a trainer. Just to clarify, are they a behaviorist, or more of an obedience trainer? You want someone who can help you understand and modify the dog's underlying behavior, not someone who will just teach the dog how to sit/stay, etc. If it's the second type, then you need to shop around for an actual behaviorist.

We are working with a behaviorist primarily to lesson her anxiety. I just wanted to get some second opinions since EVERYTHING you read says that without crate training it will be almost impossible to house train a dog. We gave up on the crate a long time ago since it seemed to be causing her great distress. Thanks for your advice and in put.

The crate is a powerful tool, but not essential for housebreaking. There are some puppies that can't be left loose in the house by themselves. Many, that have never had such, don't understand that. You could have a problem due to past misuse of the crate. A dog should not be left 8-10 hours by itself, with or without a crate. If you are trying to do that, nothing is going to work. You could try a tie down, just a simple length of chain secured at one end and a snap at the other. It confines the dog just a crate does, but may bypass the negative image of the crate.

You may want to read through the at the top of the page and try a crate with the grid it suggests. The grid keeps the puppy up out of the urine while it learns that you will return. If your mix has the food motivation of a Lab, you could try a Kong filled with peanut butter. A frozen one lasts even longer.

It is only natural that a puppy resists its crate at first. What the puppy
Wants more than anything else is to be others, you, anyone else in the
Household, and any other pets. In our modern society, even if we are home,
Other things distract us from the attention an uncrated puppy must have. The
Only real solution is to crate the dog when you aren't around. The dog may be
Happier in its den than loose in the house. It relaxes, it feels safe in its
Den. It rests, the body slows down reducing the need for water and relieving
Its self. Dogs that have been crated all along do very well. Many of them
Will rest in their crates even when the door is open. I think the plastic
Ones give the dog more of a safe, enclosed den feeling. Metal ones can be put
In a corner or covered with something the dog can't pull in and chew. Select
A crate just big enough for the full grown dog to stretch out in.

Leave it some toys. Perhaps a Kong filled with peanut butter. Don't leave
Anything in the crate the dog might chew up. It will do fine without even any
Bedding. You will come home to a safe dog and a house you can enjoy.

A dog that has not been crated since it was little, may take some work.
Start just putting its toys and treats in the crate. Praise it for going
in. Feed it in the crate. This is also an easy way to maintain order at
Feeding time for more than one dog.

The "shut the puppy in a safe room" is a fallacy. Very few houses even have a
Safe room. How many of us have a room with a hard surfaced floor and nothing
Else? Most rooms have electrical cords to chew if nothing else. In addition
To destroying anything a bored puppy finds to chew, it may choke or have
Intestinal blockage from the pieces. I had a friend that left her dog in a
"safe" room. It ate a hole in the floor covering. The safe rooms fail to
Give the dog the comfort of the enclosed space their instinct requires. Nor
Do they restrict activity extending the time the dog can go without relieving
Itself.

To all those experts who say you must have a crate to own a dog.. I say RUBBISH!

My family has had 3 dogs now in my life time (all at separate times not all at once) and I'm in my early 30s about to get my next on my own. And not once did we ever use a crate for our dogs. And somehow they were all housebroken, well behaved and trained.

Its sad that today's society has run to this easy to use tool to bring up a dog, not realizing that it can be done just fine without using a crate ever. My family is against it and were willing to put up with the month of so adjustment with housetraining and learning what it can and can't do. We are talking about a few months here. There is no reason to have to crate a dog if you aren't comfortable or aren't planning on using the tool in any future events. (Ie) traveling, hotels or when you want it out of the way with company over) .

I don't think people who do rely and love crates are evil, don't get me wrong. But its sad that it is now the only way that seems to be taught. You can very easily train and bring up a dog without ever putting it in a crate. Like I said my family has had 3 dogs never once used in a crate and they were all very well trained and behaved and loving. I think people have just gotten too lazy or looking for quick ways to not have to deal with the annoying aspects of pet upbringing. Well pets like people need love and attention. Sure we can use the excuse of dogs being cave dewellers when they were wild as a way to rationalize it but so were people when we were cavemen. How many people love the idea of being in jail for a few hours a day with no way out. I sure don't. Dogs are also free roaming animals and like to explore their territory. So there goes that theory on why crates are so great.

Instead of crating I say just buy some baby gates, make a nice small area for your new dog. Slowly get it used to its surroundings, be ready for some accidents, have it get used to what it can and can't interact with. Make its area bigger and bigger as the months go on and before long you have a great dog that you don't have to worry about leaving at home for 8 hours while at work.

Everything you read makes it seem like any dog will love the idea of being in a crate and will never soil its own area. Well that's ridiculous. Of course that's not the case.

To the original poster who needs help. Worry not, your dog isn't a good candidate for crate training and I know this is hard to believe, but that's OK. You can actually bring up a dog without ever buying a crate. I know a unbelievable concept and all.. sheesh.

I'm getting a GSD this summer and I can tell you it won't be going in a crate. I guess I just like to live on the wild side or something. Crates are fine if you want a pet but don't want it free roaming or dealing with messes. But I say why get a dog if you aren't willing to deal with a few minor problems as it gets used to things? That's just my two cents on it. Dump the crate, set up an area for it and show how loving you can be. Your dog will be fine when it sees its not in prison and that you are there for it to make it comfortable. A dog shouldn't be a prisoner in its own home. I don't care what the experts say. You don't have to crate a dog to have a well behaved dog.

Matt,

Any luck? I am now suffering from this same problem...

I have a 9 week Yorkie/Malteese Mix pup who is cute as a button and is also a perpetual peeing/pooping machine.

First few days was very rough with him crying at night in his crate (I broke down and held him to sleep first couple of nights) and him pooing all over the place. I read all the books and was mentally prepared myself for a rough time before getting the pup, but it was still hard. All those things they write in the books by experts I found out are only about 50% to 75% right. Every dog is different. I was all prepared to crate train my little guy (cause all the experts say it's the best way). Well... needless to say it didn't work. The little guy pooped and pee in his crate all the time. I would bring him out, he wouldn't do a thing and then pee as soon as I drop him back into his crate.

Instinctively I knew crate was not the way to go and not to just let my little guy go on with a bad habit of soiling his sleeping area and then lying in it. The breeder was very nice people, however, their mistake was to raise the pups only in an enclosed baby playpen area. Another words, all the pups knew was one place to eat, sleep and deficate. The owner even told me that he leaves a towel for the pups to poop on. Well, how is a pup suppose to know what towel is used to lie on and what towel is used to poop on?? They also told me that the pups kind of started to use pee pads, but I found out that is was a hit or miss thing depending on the puppy's mood. So I am now trying to de-program the little guy and try to first train him not to poo and sleep at the same place. I also found out from people on line that young pups up to 4 months old cannot fully control their bladder or bowel. So forcing them to hold it for even a couple of hours in a crate is not realistic. When I first got my pup at 7 weeks, he was going like every 20mins to 1/2 hr. Now he's a little better about every 2-3 hrs. During the day, I watch him and try to get him to go to a litter pan lined with a pee pad. I'm using a litter pan, because eventually I want to train him to use dog litter which is cheaper & better environmentally than to keep buying pee pads. But for now since he is familiar with pee pads, I'm willing to go this route. Plus when I show him the litter, he's eating it. The dog right now is really like an infant baby. He is putting everything into his mouth including every single bit of lint, dirt, plaster, etc he can find on the floor. So far, sometimes the pup goes into the litter pan himself, sometimes he doesn't, but I can see he is starting to get the picture especially with praises & treats. At night, I bought this neat foldable canvas pet tent and it is big enough to put a small litter pan in along with his bedding. He's actually pretty good now with this system especially at night. He can go whenever he needs to and not wet his bed and he has stopped crying at night and let me sleep until 8am (You have no idea how happy this has made me!! ).

I am so lucky to have found this site. Everyone here provides such invaluable advice and experiences. I also believe because every dog is unique, there are also many ways of training a dog. The crate method is one of many and may not be for everyone.

I understand what you're going through. I have 2 dogs an 11 year old American Eskimo that I rescued 10 years ago and a 3 year old Boxer that I got in September. My Eskimo is very easy going with very few behavior problems. He will behave whether in or out of the crate. My boxer however will not. When I first got her I tried leaving her out of the crate. I put a baby gate in the hallway to keep them from going into the living room but they had the run of the back of the apartment and everyday as soon as I left she would knock the gate down and go into the living room and destroy something. Then I tried just leaving them out and everyday she will have destroyed something new in the house. And almost everyday I would come home and she had pooped in the kitchen. Finally I started putting both of them in the crate because they wanted to be together which worked for a while but she started peeing and pooping in the crate. So I stopped putting my American Eskimo in with her because it got to be too much to have to give him a bath every night because she pooped on him and because I was afraid that he would get sick. Now with her just being in there by herself, she sometimes behaves better and sometimes not. Her feeding schedule and walks don't seem to make a difference. We go for 3 mile walks every morning an hour or so after she eats and I'll think she's empty but when I come home on my lunch break she will have pooped. Its almost like she saves it so she can protest. I come home everyday on my lunch break to take her out. I'm rapidly approaching my wits end with her. She's an awesome happy loved dog but its hard to be happy to see her when I come home from work when as soon as I open the door I'm hit with the smell.