New Lennox XP-19-036 3 ton heat pump/CBX32MV-036 3 Ton Air Handler installed 9-24-07

11/29/07 heat pump quit, heated house with aux heat only, would not come up to temp set point. Shut off both breakers, air handler started, plenim temp ran up to 118 deg, 39 min later, heat pump quit. Shut off breakers again, heat pump started and ran until late PM 12/8/08.

12/3/07 called dealer, since heat pump was running, they couldn't help, said wait until it dies and call back.

12/8/07 Sat, quit again, dealer closed until Mon. Tried a restart by killing breakers, it ran 1 cycle about 40 min, blew 119 deg air then quit. Ran on aux heat but couldn't come up to thermostst set point. Sun am, 12/9/07, heat pump started by itself, ran 1 cycle blew 119 deg air for 44 min, then quit (this was the last hot air it has blown since then).

Mon, called dealer, Tue 12/11/07 service tech investigated, said refrigerant pressure was overcharged, bled off some refrigerant & the heat pump started and has kept running full blast since then, but it can only blow 84 deg max air, but does come up to the set point, then the plenim air temp drops to 73 deg for awhile, then heats up to 83 and so on, it NEVER has shut off, it just hunts back and forth between these 2 temperatures!

The tech changed the installer settings on 1st stage differential to 1 & the second stage to 2, but I don't know what this means or if it the best set point.

During all this, outside air ranged from a low of 28 deg for a short while to a high of 39 deg. F.

Has anyone else had this problem? Does anyone know how to fix this?

After spending $8,600.00 for the top line product, I would expect a much more reliable unit along with reliable installation! I did get a $600.00 rebate from Lennox, so the real cost was $8,000.00 -- still, a healthy sum!

Just called the installing dealer, he says this is a normal condition, the heat pump will run all the time in the cold weather and temperatures reported above are normal.

Doesn't sound right to me, but what do I know?

Is there someone experienced with these systems that can confirm or deny the dealer's position?

Called Lennox & they confirmed that this is a normal operation condition, therefore this post goes from a question to a report of normal operation.

Have one important question. How long did it take that tech to determine the unit was over charged? Heat pump referigerant charge is critical and cannot be determined in a few minutes. Both air and referigerant temps have to be taken along with referigerant pressures to calculate a proper charge. This is time consuming. I know myself it will take me an hour to calculate a proper charge give or take. Not to many techs out there can properly charge a regular central system let alone a heat pump. Call and ask the dealer what they set your super heat at on this unit. Also you never mentioned what the split is. Read the supply air and return air tempures right at the furnace. Also might mention if you already didn't know, secondary heat is your electric strip heater.

eschuen is correct it does take time but the split will tell you if it is working properly or not it should be about a 18 to 20 degree split any lower or a lot higher should be looked at.

Thanks, both of you: here are this mornings readings-------

Outside air 22 deg F
Thermostat set at 71 deg F
Thermostat temp reading 70 deg F
At furnace ductwork, outlet air is 79.6 deg F
At inlet to filter, temp is 72.3 deg F

Sorry, I forgot, the tech reported high temp shutdown due to refrigerant overcharge -- took around 5 minutes to reach this conclusion, perform the work, got the heat pump working and was done.

The dealer tells me that the system is running correctly -- in this weather, expect the blower to run 100% of the time & the heat pump to kick in stage 1 heating until it can't keep up, then the 2nd stage will kick in. When the heat pump is on stage 2 & can't keep up, the aux furnace resistance heat element kicks in. They say that the heat pump will just put out the desired temperature and not run at full blast --- supposedly an economical way to run.

Unfortunately, as of right now, the heat pump has quit again and all I have to heat the house is the furnace resistance heater.

Called the dealer, maybe can get someone here tomorrow (Sat) but due to the impending snow storm, it may have to wait until Monday ---

Doggon expensive way to operate! I was better off with my 29 year old system! I only got rid of it because it was old & I wanted long term, reliable, trouble free heating & cooling.

What should I advise the repairman to look at when he gets here?

Where should the repairman look? Look into a school that teaches basic heat pump operation, his boss also. Your HP is not working. As J Costa said your spit tells quickly if unit is working. 20 deg. Is good at those temps. You mentioned your old unit was 29 years old. I'm just wondering about your ductwork size. Many companys just want to do a push pull, get there money and go. I have a feeling the people your dealing with are one of these companys. Further more, if that duct work is not sized correctly for that unit your probems are just beginning. Most likely your a/c isin't going to work well at all.

All of your registers and returns are open right? None are blocked. This will cause problems.

For now its hard to say what is going on not being able to get temp and pressure readings. I'm not referig to the ones you've been giving so far. These are readings necessary to determine, or begin to determine, what going on. I'm betting you have a duct problem.

Suggest you talk to friends and neighbors and see if they know a competent HVAC company where you are at. Then look into small claims court to get reimbursed any extra expenses. I don't believe the company your dealing with knows the first thing about heat pumps. Telling you you have a 2 stage heat pump when the second stage is your electric element. The way this works FYI 1st syage brings on outside compressor, 2nd stage is your first electric heater, emergency heat is both electric heating elements. You have 2 strip heaters. Good luck and keep us posted on the outcome.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by belzona1

New Lennox XP-19-036 3 ton heat pump/CBX32MV-036 3 Ton Air Handler installed 9-24-07

11/29/07 heat pump quit, heated house with aux heat only, would not come up to temp set point. Shut off both breakers, air handler started, plenim temp ran up to 118 deg, 39 min later, heat pump quit. Shut off breakers again, heat pump started and ran until late PM 12/8/08.

12/3/07 called dealer, since heat pump was running, they couldn't help, said wait until it dies and call back.

12/8/07 Sat, quit again, dealer closed until Mon. Tried a restart by killing breakers, it ran 1 cycle about 40 min, blew 119 deg air then quit. Ran on aux heat but couldn't come up to thermostst set point. Sun am, 12/9/07, heat pump started by itself, ran 1 cycle blew 119 deg air for 44 min, then quit (this was the last hot air it has blown since then).

Mon, called dealer, Tue 12/11/07 service tech investigated, said refrigerant pressure was overcharged, bled off some refrigerant & the heat pump started and has kept running full blast since then, but it can only blow 84 deg max air, but does come up to the set point, then the plenim air temp drops to 73 deg for awhile, then heats up to 83 and so on, it NEVER has shut off, it just hunts back and forth between these 2 temperatures!

The tech changed the installer settings on 1st stage differential to 1 & the second stage to 2, but I don't know what this means or if it the best set point.

During all this, outside air ranged from a low of 28 deg for a short while to a high of 39 deg. F.

Has anyone else had this problem? Does anyone know how to fix this?

After spending $8,600.00 for the top line product, I would expect a much more reliable unit along with reliable installation! I did get a $600.00 rebate from Lennox, so the real cost was $8,000.00 -- still, a healthy sum!

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Installing a new heat pump in colder temperatures is very challenging. The refrigerant should be weighed in to get accurate levels. Set points are the trickiest part of balancing your system. Your dealer should hang in there and get your relative pressure to temperature levels to a point that you can effectively use your heat pump. It sounds as if your dealer is guessing a bit about how to charge your Heat pump. Without seeing your pressures I can't tell if you are at a normal operating level. At this point I would suggest your dealer reclaim the refrigerant from the system and follow Lennox's specs of how much refrigerant is needed for your system. If you take off the access panel there is a I/o user guide which will give you all of the info you need. Extra refrigerant is need for additional length of line set. If your dealer can't solve the problem don't use them any further find another now.

Thanks eschuen -- they told me the heat pump is 2 stage, confirmed by the literature. The resistance heat in the furnace kicks in when the 2nd stage of the heat pump won't keep up.

The dealer has been in BUSINESS LOCALLY FOR A VERY LONG TIME & CAME HIGHLY RECOMMENDED ---?? We'll have to wait & see what happens when the service tech gets her & I'll post the results.

I would certainly expect THAT a big, old, reputable Company such as Lennox could do better!!

Well, the problem with another dealer is that this is a brand new unit with a 1 year guarantee. I think I'm stuck with them. They are a pretty good sized company and have been around a long time --- of course that doesn't mean that they are infallabile, but they are not a "fly by night". I checked the Missouri legal system and saw that they have never been sued by anybody: they have had to sue some people for nonpayment. So far, they are responding to requests for service, I just don't think another Lennox dealer would want to get involved.
Anyhow, I'll post the results of the next round which probably will be Monday -- the St Louis area just got hit with around 6" snow last night, so I doubt anybody will be out here today.
I'm really hesitant to attempt any fixes, either myself or with someone other than the selling dealer for fear of voiding the warranty.
The system is a new XP-19 two stage heat pump, (advertised as designed to run on the
1st stage 80% of the time) coupled to a brand new CBX32MV variable speed electric furnace installed Oct 24, 2007.

I will report the results of the next Tech's visit, but with 6" snow in the St Louis area I doubt it will happen today.

This is a NEW 2 stage heat pump coupled with a NEW variable speed furnace: (installed 9/24/07) as such, it carries a 1 year warranty, so I think I'm obligated to stick with this dealer or possibly void the warranty . It is the "top of the line" system sold by Lennox. For the same reason, I don't want to try "tweaking" the system myself -- this is the selling dealer's responsibility to fix this thing correctly.

This dealer is a good sized outfit, and been around a long time PLUS in checking the Missouri legal system, have never been sued---- they have sued some folks for non payment --- so that would indicate a good record of reliability.

There is a lot of information missing that may be critical as to why your Heat pump may have quit again:

Good questions to ask:
-Is there an outdoor temperature sensor?
-What is the temperature of the outside coil relative to the low side pressure?
-What is your inside coil temp relative to the high side pressure?
-What is your calculated superheat?
-Are inside and outside coils clean, with good airflow, or is the compressor beating itself up trying to compensate for an airflow issue?

Units have specifications indicating desirable parameters for superheat, cfm of airflow, min and max operating pressures, max temp differential it can achieve, etc.

When the tech comes out on a trouble call, do they provide a customer copy of the incident documentation? Some of these pieces of info should be on a diligent worker's sheet, or at least a mention of whether these numbers are to manufacturer's spec or not

Quote:

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Originally Posted by belzona1

New Lennox XP-19-036 3 ton heat pump/CBX32MV-036 3 Ton Air Handler installed 9-24-07

11/29/07 heat pump quit, heated house with aux heat only, would not come up to temp set point. Shut off both breakers, air handler started, plenim temp ran up to 118 deg, 39 min later, heat pump quit. Shut off breakers again, heat pump started and ran until late PM 12/8/08.

12/3/07 called dealer, since heat pump was running, they couldn't help, said wait until it dies and call back.

12/8/07 Sat, quit again, dealer closed until Mon. Tried a restart by killing breakers, it ran 1 cycle about 40 min, blew 119 deg air then quit. Ran on aux heat but couldn't come up to thermostst set point. Sun am, 12/9/07, heat pump started by itself, ran 1 cycle blew 119 deg air for 44 min, then quit (this was the last hot air it has blown since then).

Mon, called dealer, Tue 12/11/07 service tech investigated, said refrigerant pressure was overcharged, bled off some refrigerant & the heat pump started and has kept running full blast since then, but it can only blow 84 deg max air, but does come up to the set point, then the plenim air temp drops to 73 deg for awhile, then heats up to 83 and so on, it NEVER has shut off, it just hunts back and forth between these 2 temperatures!

The tech changed the installer settings on 1st stage differential to 1 & the second stage to 2, but I don't know what this means or if it the best set point.

During all this, outside air ranged from a low of 28 deg for a short while to a high of 39 deg. F.

Has anyone else had this problem? Does anyone know how to fix this?

After spending $8,600.00 for the top line product, I would expect a much more reliable unit along with reliable installation! I did get a $600.00 rebate from Lennox, so the real cost was $8,000.00 -- still, a healthy sum!

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Tech arrived last Mon PM, found a problem in the electric control circuit board, fixed it & the unit has been running fine ever since.