Ask Me Help Desk - Training 2 year old dogs

I'm getting a puppy soon and I've researched everything I can possibly think of about training, what they'd need, and if something goes wrong. In the process of gathering this information I've concluded that my mom's dogs are not well behaved and need some training. Also, me training my mother's dogs will help me in training my puppy that is to be due in February. Now I've ran into a problem: I don't know where to start. They've had no training what so ever, and they seem to think that they 'own' this house. They're fed table scraps, get attention when they want it, they have food out at all times, basically spoiled to no end it seems.

I want to teach them basic things such as collar/leash training, 'come', 'sit', 'stay', 'down', and crate training. The only problem with crate training my mom is completely against it. She says that it's cruel, but I disagree.

They also seem to have behavioral problems that I'd like to correct. Ripley barks all the time. The wind blows, we have guests over, a cat jumps off the counter, or any sudden noise and he has to bark. I'd like to correct him on that, as well as his fear for riding in the car. He starts to shake violently and foams at the mouth. I try not to comfort him, for then he'll think that I'm in a weaker mind than he is [at least from what I've read from the Alpha-Male dog psychology], but I can't help but to ponder about how to make him feel more relaxed when he's riding in the car. Last but not least, Kit-Kat is greedy. She steals everyone else's bone, but when you try to take them from her and give them back to the other dogs she will growl at you and snap at/bite.

Basically I'm asking

1. Where should I start in training her puppies, and how I should go about with it
2. I'm looking for information in convincing her to crate train the little mosters. [I have red Labman's post about crate training and plan on using this in convincing her it's okay]
3. How to work on Oliver's weight
4. Kit-Kat's bone stealing

p.s. There are four puppies.
Molly, the miniature rat terrier
Oliver, the chunky Chihuahua
Ripley, the barking pomeranian
Kit-Kat, the hairless Chihuahua

Get a book, maybe one of the more basic ones from the list at https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dogs/i...tml#post251804 Even anything you find at your library will do. Skip the Dog Whisperer. How old are you? Chances are you won''t be able to start an obedience class before the first of the year. With somebody the right age in the family (10-18), 4-H dog training is a great idea.
In my area, clubs form soon after the first of the year. Even many urban
Areas have 4-H. For info look in your phone book under government listings
For extension or cooperative extension offices. Ask specifically about a dog
Or canine club. The dogs see all the people and dogs in the household as a
Pack with each having their own rank in the pack and a top dog. Life is much
Easier if the 2 legged pack members outrank the 4 legged ones. You can learn
To play the role of top dog by reading some books or going to a good obedience
Class. A good obedience class or book is about you being top dog, not about rewarding standard commands a treat. Start at Raising Your Dog with the Monks of New Skete.

Quote:

Originally Posted by labman

Get a book, maybe one of the more basic ones from the list at https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dogs/i...tml#post251804 Even anything you find at your library will do. Skip the Dog Whisperer. How old are you? Chances are you won''t be able to start an obedience class before the first of the year. With somebody the right age in the family (10-18), 4-H dog training is a great idea.
In my area, clubs form soon after the first of the year. Even many urban
areas have 4-H. For info look in your phone book under government listings
for extension or cooperative extension offices. Ask specifically about a dog
or canine club. The dogs see all the people and dogs in the household as a
pack with each having their own rank in the pack and a top dog. Life is much
easier if the 2 legged pack members outrank the 4 legged ones. You can learn
to play the role of top dog by reading some books or going to a good obedience
class. A good obedience class or book is about you being top dog, not about rewarding standard commands a treat. Start at Raising Your Dog with the Monks of New Skete.

I do plan on reading books and online information about dog training, and thank you for that link.

I'm sixteen. I have a job, but right now my money is going towards christmas presents and puppy fees. I can't really pay for obedience classes. I'd rather not do the whole 4-H thing. Most of my time is being spent on school work and my job.

I haven't priced 4-H recently, but years ago it was only $12. That is a fantastic deal compared to most obedience classes. I have seen some kids show up at 4-H with some older, rather ill behaved dogs, and shape them up. Straightening up your pack will take some time. Choosing the worst of them to take to 4-H would be a good use of your time and money.

My county doesn't have a large 4-h community, nor do we have any dog obedience classes. Do you have anything else to suggest?

Nothing beats the hands on of having an instructor. You will just have to work out of a book.

uhhleesha, if you have limited resources, please do as labman suggests. Take his recommended reading list that is on his link and go to your library. See what you can find there. Whatever you can't find, start researching those online and see which ones interest you. You might also ask your parents to buy those other books for you for Christmas. :)

By the way, food aggression is very normal with dogs that haven't been trained. What you have with your little Kit Kat is called "guarding" behavior. To train a dog not to guard his food, is much more effective when they are still puppies. Older dogs are very hard to break of that habit. You have a lot of dogs and without training, they have all found their own rank within the pack. It appears that your Mother is probably considered the lowest ranking member of the pack to her dogs. Not good. You are doing the right thing by learning as much as you can. I commend you for attempting to train them. But, please don't get too discouraged if you're hitting some bumps with this. Trying to train 4 adult dogs at once is a major undertaking that even the most experienced trainer will have trouble with. When you start, you need to work with each one separately, not together as a group. Start with the most difficult one first. That one is more than likely recognized as the leader of their little pack. If you can take over the leadership role from that one, the rest will recognize that you are now the alpha, and training them will be much easier.

I have actually read tons and tons of online articles and have read tons of ebooks on how to dog train, so I think I have the general idea. I have been observing them more today, and I noticed that molly stiffens her legs and puts her head on their shoulders. One book stated that this was an alpha behavior, so I'm starting with her. She's done very well today. I've been using broken up pieces of treats to get her to sit. The only problem is I have to tap her tail to get her to sit. This is normal right? Eventually she'll associate "sit" with sitting down without me tapping?

EDIT: Another thing I'd like to add is that I'll have we, the humans, eat our meal first then feed the dogs. I plan on having them sit before they are to be fed. Who should I have do this duty, my mother or me?

I'm going to have my mother help with training them. I've printed out the rules of getting the alpha position in the house and the explanation the website gave for the rules to give to my mother. The link is: Establishing and Keeping Alpha Position, Letting your dog know you are the boss I found it while reading through the questions on askmehelpdesk, and was linked by labman.

With Oliver being over weight, I'm not going to start training him with treats until his weight is under control. As of now, I'm giving him a daily walk for 30 mins- hour and I'm working on collar/leash training him first. He's only worn the collar for ten minutes today, but he acted so terrified of the collar.

I think her bone stealing and her guarding behavior will calm down after the humans are giving the alpha position. I'm wanting it to go away completely. My plan is to take the bone away, and give a treat as a reward for giving it up. Even though she has a small mouth, and I plan on using a glove to ease the pain. Or maybe putting bitter apple on my hand. Any suggestions?

Now I'm stuck with Ripley's barking. I've read that I should have him quiet down, make him sit, and give a treat/show affection. Only problem with he's too finicky with food to take the treat unless I put it in front of him, so I'm not really wanting to try that. Another place said that I should put him in a room away from the commotion and let him out after he quiets down. I haven't researched enough, but I'm willing to take in anything anyone has about this. It'd be greatly welcome.

Another thing, if anyone has any more tips and would like to give me more resources to read from, I'd be happy to read the book and learn from anything you have to tell.

:]

uhhleesha! You are such a refreshing change! Thank you for being so dedicated and determined!

I actually need to sign off for a little while. I am sure labman will give you some input when he comes back online, and I will give you as much help as I can when I get back.

I love learning, and this is an interesting subject. I noticed that the dogs weren't very well behaved and I didn't want my future puppy to act like them. I know they have to change for the better and my mother's life will be a lot easier without Ripley constant barking and the dogs constantly whining for my mothers attention. That probably fuels the determination, as well as my hatred for failing. Thank you for the information that you have given me and the offer to help when you're able to get back online-- I really do appreciate it.

So far, you are doing a great job! You appear to understand the techniques and how to apply them without someone having to physically show you. That is huge! Believe it or not, a lot of people just don't have the capability to do that. So, give yourself a big pat on the back for that. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by uhhleesha

I have been observing them more today, and I noticed that molly stiffens her legs and puts her head on their shoulders. One book stated that this was an alpha behavior, so I'm starting with her.

Absolutely right. The dog that puts their head on the back, shoulders, or head of another dog consistently without the other dogs fighting it and just accepting that treatment, is the leader.

Quote:

Originally Posted by uhhleesha

I've been using broken up pieces of treats to get her to sit. The only problem is I have to tap her tail to get her to sit. This is normal right? Eventually she'll associate "sit" with sitting down without me tapping?

When you instruct her to "sit", take the treat so that she sees and smells it and move it just above and behind her head holding it in your hand. The dog should lift her head and automatically sit down. Then give her a happy and cheerful "Good Girl" along with the treat. I am not sure how well this works with such a small dog. They do have a tendency to stand up on their hind legs. Make sure you hold onto the treat and pull it out of her reach. Step back and try it again. Keep doing that. Eventually she will get tired of fighting you and standing on her hind legs. Let me know if this doesn't work. My concern with the tapping is that she will wait for you to do that every time you ask her to sit. She will connect "sit", tap, then she will receive her treat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by uhhleesha

EDIT: Another thing I'd like to add is that I'll have we, the humans, eat our meal first then feed the dogs. I plan on having them sit before they are to be fed. Who should I have do this duty, my mother or me?

Either one of you can do this. Since you are the trainer and you know you will stick to the routine (until you can train your Mom LOL), why don't you do this for now. The whole point of this is that eventually they need to listen to both of you. So, if your Mom is willing to take direction from you on this, you both can be standing there and one of you can give the direction. Trade off at each feeding time on who gives the direction. There are going to be days that you or your Mother won't be able to be there when they are being fed so you need to train them to listen to both of you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by uhhleesha

With Oliver being over weight, I'm not going to start training him with treats until his weight is under control. As of now, I'm giving him a daily walk for 30 mins- hour and I'm working on collar/leash training him first. He's only worn the collar for ten minutes today, but he acted so terrified of the collar.

If he isn't used to the collar, it is normal for him to reject it. If you managed to get him to wear it for 10 minutes today, you are doing a great job! Every day, extend the time by 5 or 10 minutes. This is a typical desensitization technique used when dogs are fearful of something. He will eventually adjust and accept it. My dog wags her tail and eagerly waits for me to put the collar and leash on as soon as she sees me pick them up. Again, it just takes time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by uhhleesha

I think her bone stealing and her guarding behavior will calm down after the humans are giving the alpha position. I'm wanting it to go away completely. My plan is to take the bone away, and give a treat as a reward for giving it up. Even though she has a small mouth, and I plan on using a glove to ease the pain. Or maybe putting bitter apple on my hand. Any suggestions?

Does she have a favorite toy? Use that. Bring the toy with you and let her see it & smell it. Put it down in front of her. As soon as she moves toward the toy, remove the object you want to take. It teaches her that you are the one in control of what she is allowed to play with, chew on, or eat. Do not allow her take anything. If this doesn't help, we will try a different technique. As far as stealing from the other dogs, let them work it out between themselves. Once you and your Mother establish yourselves as the pack leaders, the dogs will find their own ranking between themselves within your pack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by uhhleesha

Now I'm stuck with Ripley's barking. I've read that I should have him quiet down, make him sit, and give a treat/show affection. Only problem with he's too finicky with food to take the treat unless I put it in front of him, so I'm not really wanting to try that. Another place said that I should put him in a room away from the commotion and let him out after he quiets down. I haven't researched enough, but I'm willing to take in anything anyone has about this. It'd be greatly welcome.

Well, you first need to train him to sit, lie down, & stay. That is the first step to controlling unwanted barking. You don't treat or show affection. Once you have trained him to respond to those three things, when he starts to bark, you direct him to sit or lie down, and stay. If he continues to bark while staying, tell him "Sh sh sh" or "ch ch ch" in a loud, sharp, and quick staccato voice. As soon as he quiets down for a few moments and is looking at you, then you tell him "good boy", pet him and give him the "release" signal. That could simply be using the word "release" or "okay". It tells him that he is now allowed to move out of the position you placed him in and he can move about normally. If he starts up again, repeat the whole process. It will take a number of times of repetition for him to make the connection.

I am so excited!

During their feeding time, I took out a few kibbles and sat with them. I called over Molly and I had her sit. She was being stubborn so I was reluctant to tap on her hind quarters. I only had to tap once, and she sat. Kitty was curious, she came over and I got her to sit as well. I went back to Molly and she sat, but I still had to tap. Kitty was sitting fine without me tapping. Molly finally got it. It clicked. She sit, she gets a kibble. The rest of the time I didn't have to tap. :]

I don't know what was wrong with Oliver, but he is just too finicky. He hates eating out of my hand. Plus, he was probably mad at me for putting on the collar from earlier today. Haha. He's going to be a bit tougher, but he did sit twice for me even though he didn't eat the kibble. Ripley only wanted to cuddle up in my lap, which I didn't allow him to.

After seeing that I can get them to sit I now have my Mother and her husbands 100% cooperation. I am so happy.

When would be a good time to start them on walking on a leash?

My plan is to have them wear the collar for a whole day, then put the leash on them and just let them walk around with it attached to them. After they seem comfortable work with them on going outside.

That sounds like a good plan. Just what sort of a collar are you using? I looked back through the thread and didn't see it. In obedience work, I use a slip collar for dogs past 5 months. Except for the largest dogs that are problem pullers, technique is more important than the type of collar. When they are dragging the leash behind them, keep a close eye on them.

I'm using a collar that is similar to this: Petsmart.com - Dog: New Puppy Center: Nylon Adjustable Collars for Small Dogs

I plan on training one at a time with the leash part. I usually take them to the living room and put up the doggie gates. They'll have my undivided attention. I wouldn't want anything to happen to them. I've read about what could happen to them, I wouldn't let that happen.

I would call those a fabric flat collar. They may be all you need with the smaller dogs. I have had some trouble with such collars either the adjustment slipping or coming unbuckled. I have gone to leather collars. As long as you aren't having trouble, stick with what you have. If the dogs want to pull when on lead, try gently pulling the backwards. If you are very consistent about pulling them backwards every time they tighten the leash, they will quit pulling before long.

Ripley is doing a good job with not barking. He seems to be very fearful of other people. I'm going to try and introduce him to new people and animals. When he does bark, I say "no", make him sit, and praise him lavishly. It seems to be working. He just watches them very closely. He still barks, just not as often as he use to.

I'm in the process of teaching Molly and Kitty down. They're getting the hang of it. I'm going to have a bit of a problem with Oliver and Ripley, since they don't rely on kibbles just lots of praise.

Molly rolls around a lot when I put the collar on her today. The others are still scared of it, but it's getting better.

Since I've started training Oliver has lost two pounds. :] He's trimming up!

Kitty acts very timid. She acts like she scared that you're going to hit her. No one in this family has ever 'spanked' the animals or hit them in anyway. The people that we got her from wouldn't seem like the people to hit her. They said they got her from a breeder, and they've been the only owners. It's upsetting to see her hunker down and her tail between her legs. She's always been this way, but it's more noticeable now [at least to me]. Is there a way to help solve this problem for her?

I don't know of anything to make the dog less scared, unless you have some specific triggers. From what I understand, you need to generally get her self-confidence up, but labman or Ruby will have better specific advice than I do on that.

I just wanted to say that right now my Trink is acting like she was abused by men, when I know that she hasn't been. (I still think it's because we were following a guy into the park when the other dog was attacked, so she just associates bad things with men right now.) So your dog may not have ever actually been abused by anyone. It's hard to say sometimes why dogs act the way that they do.

Standing straight, smiling, and looking somebody straight in the eye can get you through a bad spot with people. It is the worst thing to do in some cases with dogs. They see it as dominating, aggressive, and threatening. Sometimes that is exactly what you want to do. Sometime the dog will bite or cower. So get down on Kitty's level, give her a sidelong glance, and keep your teeth behind you lips as much as you can. For Oliver, stand straight, make eye contact, and tell him ''Oliver, sit.'' in a firm, but quiet voice. First one to break eye contact loses.

I sometimes forget the importance of eye contact. It is not something the dog guide school trains us to do. The assistance dog school uses it a lot. Some of their clients have very little physical control over their dogs.

You are doing a wonderful job Uhheesha! To manage to get responses out of all four dogs in such a short period means that you are really understanding what it means to be the leader of the pack! Bravo girl!

Labman is right about the eye contact along with physical signals. I depend on those much more than the verbal commands. My dog knows with one look or hand signal what I expect from her. In the evening is when I save my human need to lavish affection in my way on the dogs. Once in a while, the pitbull will take that as a sign that I am allowing her a bit more control in our relationship. For example, she will forget her manners when I am eating and will very carefully and quietly remove herself from her bed, and sidle up to me to beg for my food. She may place her head on my leg or if I am eating informally in my living room, she will place her face very close to my plate. All I have to do is give her "the look", and she will look away and slowly walk back to her pillowbed. I have dog beds in all the rooms of the house. When I have company, where ever we are in the house, she knows she needs to go to her bed and wait for us to acknowledge her or invite her to join us on the couch. By the way, sometimes a good tough "growl" from me will also do the trick when it comes to the food issues. I can place my hand in her bowl or take anything from her without any problems. She just looks at me, sits patiently and waits for me to finish what I am doing.

In addition to the advice labman has given you with Kitty, whenever she does something you have requested her to do, she requires more praise, attention, & affection from you than the other dogs do. So, when she sits as instructed, in a happy excited voice say "Good girl!", pet her and praise her for a good solid minute giving her your complete attention, instead of a few seconds and moving onto the next dog. That should help boost her confidence level. It appears she may be the omega (lowest ranking dog in the pack).

Is there anything else I can do to help her confidence level? I've read that if I'm petting her while she's acting scared that I just reinforce her hunkering down. I don't want to do that to her.