I'm asking both here and Christianity, 'cause I'm not sure where it belongs the most.

Anyway, the movie The Kingdom of Heaven is coming on Wednesday night on AMC (I think). I was just wondering if anyone's seen it, what they thought, and if it was historically accurate at all.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by kindj

I'm asking both here and Christianity, 'cause I'm not sure where it belongs the most.

Anyway, the movie The Kingdom of Heaven is coming on Wednesday night on AMC (I think). I was just wondering if anyone's seen it, what they thought, and if it was historically accurate at all.

Thanks!

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"This movie says very little about the religions of either side of the battle. In fact, religious leaders on both sides are made out to be fools. Organized religion is not painted in a very positive light. The movie does however contain a moral lesson that people of different nations and religions should strive for peace."

http://www.cbn.com/special/kingdomofheaven/

But strive how hard for peace: There is the languid aesthetic: An attitude…“One can let Evil have the leisure to abuse the world, and give him the exclusive monopoly on action. One can take refuge in the by ways of good conscience: “At least, I did not act with malice towards anybody” Nor with benevolence either! But the ball of fire which burned Dresden and killed tens of thousands of Germans, or that of Hamburg, or the two mushroom clouds, did not make Allies of the criminals, nor of their criminal war. The Allies did not lose their heart. They were not transformed into Nazis.”
Charles Péguy

I read the info on Wikipedia; Roger Ebert gave the movie a good rating because it had deeper meaning than just what was portrayed(I'm guessing that means lots of hacking people to death).

I'd love to see the movie, but it is not listed in my cable market. The Crusades are a favorite topic of mine, and this movie has a lot of historical accuracy along with the necessary fictional parts.

Check our Wikipedia.

I'll be watching the Republicans Debate...

I don't know whether the movie is accurate or not. But do know that the Crusades were less about religion than about power and money. The leaders of the Crusades were trying to get rich on Jerusalem's and Arab's gold, and to increase the power of the kings who lead the Crusades. On the other hand, the Muslims were trying to increase their power throughout the world, as evidenced by their conquest of Spain and intent to conquer the rest of Europe. Religion, on both sides of the conflict, was just an excuse used by the leadership to lure rank-and-file people to support the war efforts.

That's not to say that there was no religious aspect to the conflict; there certainly was. But that was secondary. The primary goals were power and money. And anyone who tries to tell you different is either being naïve or is being stupid.

Elliot

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

I don't know whether the movie is accurate or not. But do know that the Crusades were less about religion than about power and money. The leaders of the Crusades were trying to get rich on Jerusalem's and Arab's gold, and to increase the power of the kings who lead the Crusades. On the other hand, the Muslims were trying to increase their power throughout the world, as evidenced by their conquest of Spain and intent to conquer the rest of Europe. Religion, on both sides of the conflict, was just an excuse used by the leadership to lure rank-and-file people to support the war efforts.

That's not to say that there was no religious aspect to the conflict; there certainly was. But that was secondary. The primary goals were power and money. And anyone who tries to tell you different is either being naive or is being stupid.

Elliot

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Elliot
“The trigger for the First Crusade was Emperor Alexius I's appeal to Pope Urban II for mercenaries to help him resist Muslim advances into territory of the Byzantine Empire. The response was much larger, and less helpful, than Alexius I desired, as the Pope called for a large invasion force to not merely defend the Byzantine Empire but also retake Jerusalem.”
If this is true then an inference can be logically drawn that the first crusade was primarily in defense of the Byzantine Empire and religious in the second sense. Surly we can’t accuse the Pope of simply wanting loot.

You almost know that when a story is "loosely" based on a true person's life, that there is not that much accuracy. The story is based on the life of Balien of Ibelin - a "highly fictionalized" accounting according to some sources. While the man was a real person in a real time, this story is pretty Hollywood. I would watch it while holding the salt shaker and plenty of salt for refills.

You can read about Balien - Balian of Ibelin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I read the Wikipedia material about the film, and it looks super to me. Roger Ebert gave the movie a good review because it has *deeper meaning* than what is blatently portrayed(I'm guessing lots of scenes showing people being chopped up).

The writers of the Wikipedia article indicated that the movie is based on real people, but, of course, there is always fictional material in historical dramas for obvious reasons. I would highly recommend the article.

I am specially interested in the Crusades, the forces in play during these times, and would love to see this film. However, it is not listed in the Chicago market on Wednesday.

I will be watching the Republicans Debate... that should be "interesting"... perhaps Thompson will attack Rudy like he did very recently?

I read the Wikipedia material about the film, and it looks super to me. Roger Ebert gave the movie a good review because it has *deeper meaning* than what is blatently portrayed(I'm guessing lots of scenes showing people being chopped up).

I am specially interested in the Crusades, the forces in play during these times, and would love to see this film. However, it is not listed in the Chicago market on Wednesday.

I will be watching the Republicans Debate... that should be "interesting"... perhaps Thompson will attack Rudy like he did very recently?

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Elliot
“The trigger for the First Crusade was Emperor Alexius I's appeal to Pope Urban II for mercenaries to help him resist Muslim advances into territory of the Byzantine Empire. The response was much larger, and less helpful, than Alexius I desired, as the Pope called for a large invasion force to not merely defend the Byzantine Empire but also retake Jerusalem.”
If this is true then an inference can be logically drawn that the first crusade was primarily in defense of the Byzantine Empire and religious in the second sense. Surly we can’t accuse the Pope of simply wanting loot.

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Actually, that's exactly what I think. Alexius wasn't all that worried about an invasion against the strongest Empire of that time. He wanted loot and he wanted to increase the power of the empire by invading Muslim lands. He convinced Urban II that it would be a good idea, and that the Church would share in the loot, as well as being able to spread their religion to the Middle East. Urabn called for "retaking" Jerusalem... a city that was never controlled by Christianity in the first place, because it was a rich city, and also because taking Jerusalem, a city recognized as a major religious city for Judaism and Islam, would have been a major coup for the spread of Christianity to the rest of the world. I agree that Urban overreacted by sending along such a large invasion force. But that was because he REALLY, REALLY wanted Jerusalem and its loot.

Thanks k, I'll be interested in hearing about the movie. I know I want to see it someday no matter what.

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Originally Posted by Choux

Thanks k, I"ll be interested in hearing about the movie. I know I want to see it someday no matter what.

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I'll tell you what I can.

Regrettably, I didn't get to see as much as I would've liked. I (and 3 other teachers) spent the better part of the evening investigating the strong likelihood of a student and her brother being molested by their dad. Don't ask how WE got wrapped up in it, but it's good that we did.

Anyway, the movie seemed a little too detailed on some stuff and too superficial on other things. They put a lot of detail into areas that were non-essential to the plot, but were sometimes interesting from a historical standpoint, even if it did make the plot drag.

On the other hand, I was left with several questions that could've been easily addressed in the movie; however, I won't begrudge them that, since I didn't get to see all of it. Many of those may have been answered during the parts I didn't get to see.

All in all ,though, I was impressed. I am going to rent it one night when I'm not having to dwell on depressing and upsetting topics.

Although I did get some nifty ideas on how to punish the alleged molestor, if in fact he turns out to be guilty. :mad:

Hey, thanks.

Do you know if the Green Bay Cowboys game will be televised nationally?? I don't get the NFL cable channel. Darn!!

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Originally Posted by kindj

Although I did get some nifty ideas on how to punish the alleged molestor, if in fact he turns out to be guilty. :mad:

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Could have gotten that from Braveheart or even the recent James Bond/Casino Royale movie. You didn't need to see Kingdom of Heaven just for that...

And I have a pretty good imagination myself. Let me know if you are soliciting ideas.

Elliot

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Originally Posted by kindj

I'm asking both here and Christianity, 'cause I'm not sure where it belongs the most.

Anyway, the movie The Kingdom of Heaven is coming on Wednesday night on AMC (I think). I was just wondering if anyone's seen it, what they thought, and if it was historically accurate at all.

Thanks!

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G'Day;
Thought I'd add my two cents worth to your question.
I don't know if you are a Christian, born again and living in Christ,but I'll treat the answer as if you are.
The movie Kingdom of Heaven has nothing to do with Christianity, it's just a fancy name for the glorification of the sinfulness of man. The excuse was that that Jerusalem is the Holy city but it is not, the true Holly City is the Heavenly Jerusalem, being prepared for the children of God to inherit at the resurrection of the just.
If you are a Christian then I greet you as a member of the Heavenly Family and if you have not yet delivered yourself up to the Lord then I encourage you to do so and be reconciled to God through the Blood of the lamb.
Many Blessings Miykle