Hello all, I am so glad I found this forum! I am a beginner in most aspects of home repair and remodelling but I am a quick learner and have been around plumbing in my childhood days (older brother was a plumber). About 7 years ago I had to completely replace our sewage ejection pump when my brother was on vacation so I've been in da poop so to say. Anyhow here are my dilemna's.

Basic Info: I will be installing 1 toilet and 1 sink. Both have capped drains (roughins correct?) existing in the concrete floor.

Hope its not too many questions at once.

1) Can I assume that the both roughin drains are connected to a drain pipe that is vented? If not do I need to tap into an existing vent (if I can determine which pipe is a vent). I read in another thread about a vent chamber, is that acceptable (and if so what is it really?)

2) I plan on tapping into a 1/2 (ID) copper cold line that supplies an outside spicket. It already has a shutoff valve that I can use to sneak a T into. Don't worry, I'll be adding another shutoff just off the new T I install.
I assume I can drop down to 3/8 ID to service the toilet and the sink or should I run 1/2 inch to the bathroom and then run 3/8 each to the toilet and sink?

3) Here is my toughy, I have a gas hot water heater. I can follow the line that serves the hot water to the house. However they disappear into the ceiling to go up to the kitchen and bathrooms upstairs and there is NO shutoff valve in site. The only one I see is a shutoff at the washing machine but that is not a T it's a 45 degree elbow that ends in male threads that a hose from the washing machine connects into.

I don't want hot water all over the place, of course I plan on shutting off the water from the main source but how much hot water will I have to deal with if I make a fresh cut into a pipe?

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide.

Doug Lochart

I fish... therefore I am

Hi Doug, Back so soon I see.

1) Can I assume that the both roughin drains are connected to a drain pipe that is vented? If not do I need to tap into an existing vent (if I can determine which pipe is a vent). I read in another thread about a vent chamber, is that acceptable (and if so what is it really?)

In plumbing you may not assume anything until it's checked out. Your drains are connected to the sewer but the vent hasn't been run yet. The vent will come off the 2 X 1 1/2" drainage tee that picks up the lavatory and exit the roof.
If by "vent chamber" you are referring to a "cheater vent" you are allowed to
install one if local codes allow. This is a spring loaded mechanical vent that installs in the house. (see attachment). To check them out click on http://www.studor.com/homeowners.htm

2) I plan on tapping into a 1/2 (ID) copper cold line that supplies an outside spicket. It already has a shutoff valve that I can use to sneak a T into. Don't worry, I'll be adding another shutoff just off the new T I install.
I assume I can drop down to 3/8 ID to service the toilet and the sink or should I run 1/2 inch to the bathroom and then run 3/8 each to the toilet and sink?

There you go with the assumptions again. (just pulling your leg).
This will work but you're undersizing the pipes. I hope that hose bib has a 3/4" main supplying it. I haven't seen 3/8" branches used since houses built in the 40's durning WW2 dowsized the galvanized pipes to conserve metal for the war effert. Ifyou'r eusing a fixture and someone in the house flushes I guarantee that you will see a reduction in both volume and pressure. Code calls for all branches to be 1/2" and be taken off a 3/4" main. With no more then three fixtures serviced by a 1/2" branch.

3) Here is my toughy, I have a gas hot water heater. I can follow the line that serves the hot water to the house. However they disappear into the ceiling to go up to the kitchen and bathrooms upstairs and there is NO shutoff valve in site. The only one I see is a shutoff at the washing machine but that is not a T it's a 45 degree elbow that ends in male threads that a hose from the washing machine connects into.
I don't want hot water all over the place, of course I plan on shutting off the water from the main source but how much hot water will I have to deal with if I make a fresh cut into a pipe?


You shut the hot water off at the cold water shutoff on your heater. (All heaters should have one) If not then shut the housedown at the house shut off and open a uppermost hot water faucet. Then make your cut. There will be some water that's in the pipes come out but it should be less then a gallon.
Good luck, Tom

Tom,

Thanks for your quick reply. Sorry its been so long but I've been putting out other fires and the wifey had be frame in a window before I got back to the basement.

1) Cold Water Line. The 1/2" line for the external spicket comes directly off a 3/4" mainline. The 1/2" line is real short (5') and only services the spicket. Is it ok (by code / common sense) to split another 1/2" line off this 1/2"? Or do you always downsize when splitting a T off of a pipe?

2) Fixture Venting. In your reply you said this

"The vent will come off the 2 X 1 1/2" drainage tee that picks up the lavatory and exit the roof."

What does that mean? I know there is a roof vent for the other fixtures in the house. In the basement there is a large sewer line coming from the ceiling and another 2 or 3" pipe beside it going into the floor. I believe this MIGHT be a vent pipe as I NEVER hear water inside whenever anyone flushes/opens a fawcet. Where do I go to check code for the state of Maryland for the cheater vent? Is the code for the state or are there county codes as well.

Thanks again for your expert advice. I will have a friend that is a plumber of sorts with me when I do my work. We worked in piped services at a local university but he does not have much experience in househod plumbing (code knowledge etc)

Doug

I fish therefore I am!

Good morning Doug,

1) Cold Water Line. The 1/2" line for the external spicket comes directly off a 3/4" mainline. The 1/2" line is real short (5') and only services the spicket. Is it ok (by code / common sense) to split another 1/2" line off this 1/2"? Or do you always downsize when splitting a T off of a pipe?

Code calls for no more then three fixtures to be serviced by a 1/2" branch so if you're planing on morethen two fixtures you're going to have to runanother 1/2" branch off a 3/4" main.

2) Fixture Venting. In your reply you said this
"The vent will come off the 2 X 1 1/2" drainage tee that picks up the lavatory and exit the roof."\
What does that mean? I know there is a roof vent for the other fixtures in the house. In the basement there is a large sewer line coming from the ceiling and another 2 or 3" pipe beside it going into the floor. I believe this MIGHT be a vent pipe as I NEVER hear water inside whenever anyone flushes/opens a fawcet. Where do I go to check code for the state of Maryland for the cheater vent? Is the code for the state or are there county codes as well.

The lavatory stubout will be off a 2 X 2 X 1 1/2" DWV drainage tee with the 1 1/2" branch picking up the lav. The upper part of the tee will be thevent for the bathroom group. I doubt the 2 or 3 inch line is a dry vent simply because most vents come off the fixture that it's venting and there's no need to extend it to the sewer in the basement because they're already connected to the sewer at the fixture drain line.
Call your local building department, code enforcement division, for information on AAV vents. There are State, County and City codes. In my area we have keys and islands that have their own city codes. We have to be licensed in every one, plus the county that they're in, to be able to work there ever though one city can run right into the next one. Hope this answers you questions but if not click on back. Tom