I have a York Two-Stage Deluxe Diamond (PDU) furnace that I have recently wired to a 6 CKT transfer switch (Reliance Controls) to use with my Coleman 6250 (5000watt) gas generator. All my ckts. Work well with the generator connected, except the furnace. I switched ckts on the transfer switch-no better. I believe the problem is with the furnace-generator, when switched. The furnace is getting 120vac with the generator, but it seems I am only getting a solenoid? Noise when on generator power. (like it is always clicking?) and the fan wants to go on the furance. Could anyone help? I know I have the transfer switch wired correctly, per instructions and as I said I am getting 120vac to the furnace with the generator.

Thank you

Tough question. Do you have the neutral grounded on the generator? I would think the 4 prong twist lock connection would be good enough properly connected into the transfer switch. The other thing could be a bad connection, just enough copper to give the volt meter 120 volts, but a high resistance path to the amps the furnace needs. Try measuring the voltage when the fan is running.

I am very interest in you getting an answer. If mine doesn't work, I hope somebody else here can help.

I got a great deal on a Coleman Powermate 6250 a few months ago. I was hoping to run much of my house on it in a power outage including my furnace. Some people were without power 2 weeks here last winter after an ice storm. I haven't found a cheap, easy way to connect it in properly. Maybe not all at once, but I need the furnace, 240 volt pump, refrigerator, freezer, and a few lights, plus the cook stove would be nice. Once my little UPS dies, I can't even call the electric company.

It seems so simple, a double pole, double throw switch before the breaker box. Instead, all I see are things 3 times as big and expensive as my whole 100 amp breaker box.

One thing I would suggest to lok for is another circuit feeding the heating cooling system. Could be whatever is not being fed has a portion of control voltage, even though a potion of the system is on.

If you can describe more of the system in generic format perhasps we can deterimine what may be the cause.

This is the same problem that I've been having. I have a decent quality portable generator but my newer furnace won't fire up when powered with it. I am sure it is a problem with the quality of the electricity generated by that generator ( distortion, poor quality wave form, etc). Look inside your furnace-- its like a computer in there and it doesn't "like" the power.

According to the code all standby power generators must be connected to a device that automatically cuts the power connection to the utility feed. This is to protect the lineman working down the street from being killed because someone forgot to disconnect or throw the main breaker off at the house main panel. In other words the generator will back feed the utility lines killing the workmen and that is the reason for the automatic transfer switch. Check the NEC to confirm this for yourself.

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Originally Posted by hvac1000

According to the code all standby power generators must be connected to a device that automatically cuts the power connection to the utility feed. This is to protect the lineman working down the street from being killed because someone forgot to disconnect or throw the main breaker off at the house main panel. In other words the generator will back feed the utility lines killing the workmen and that is the reason for the automatic transfer switch. Check the NEC to confirm this for yourself.

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The original note said that the generator was connected through a 6 contact transfer switch. So the generator is protected from connection to the utility feed circuits. Or did I misread what was written?

This note was directed at good old Labman

It was not a big slap in your face labman! It was a statement about not killing someone down the line. In the past 9 years we have lost two linemen who happen to be working on the lines when standby generation activated the supposed dead lines they were working on. It was a proven a fact and one of the people who owned the generator and also did the hookup went to jail and the wife of the lineman who died successfully sued him in a court of law for his transgressions. Many people who think they are smart actually are it is just the simple protection items in which they fail at.

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Originally Posted by hvac1000

This note was directed at good old Labman

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I misunderstood. Sorry.

I sympathize with Labman's predicament, as the price of such switches seems disproportionately high relative to their components. I attribute it to a combination of low production volume pressing manufacturers to reach revenue goals with few sales units, combined with most customers buying them as part of a large, permanent emergency generator installation where the transfer switch cost is buried in the larger costs of the generator and installation. I eventually went with a smaller 6 circuit switch installed post-panel. Gang the two center circuits to provide one 240V and four 120V circuits if 240V service is needed. I was able to purchase mine, UL listed, for $50 online a few years ago during a closeout. When I was looking, they were pretty common at about $100.

Much of the price is also for insurance liability. Emergency/changeover switches require a lot of liability insurance to be carried by the manufacturer since any type of failure could cause loss of life situation. The manufacturer usually have a price per unit cost from there liability insurance company. This is also another reason to have a real inspection for the work done. Usually if no inspection is done the manufacturer will bow out of the picture since most of them have a disclaimer.

Now getting away from the insults and irrelavancies and back to the problem.

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Originally Posted by mplatin

This is the same problem that I've been having. I have a decent quality portable generator but my newer furnace won't fire up when powered with it. I am sure it is a problem with the quality of the electricity generated by that generator ( distortion, poor quality wave form, etc). Look inside your furnace-- its like a computer in there and it doesn't "like" the power.

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I find the quality of the power a little hard to accept. I have actually run my computer as well as the cable modem, router, ATA, and microwave on my generator. They were all perfectly happy to work with what it was putting out. I have trouble thinking furnace controls are more sensitive.

In the more detailed reports I have read, the furnace starts a cycle and proceeds to ignition. The inducer starts, the gas goes on, but goes off right away because the ignitor fails to ignite it. It is just a resistance loop powered by one more relay. I would think if it was bad power, the controls would never start the inducer.

If the furnace and house are properly wired, the neutral and equipment ground are tied together at the main panel. I think somehow the current isn't making it back to the generator neutral. In a properly connected 4 wire set up, the ground and neutral of the generator should both be connected to the house neutral and house equipment ground at the main panel. Does the Gentran system switch the neutral? If so, with a generator that has the ground and neutral isolated as my Coleman does, the equipment ground won't connect to anything except the generator housing and frame. Grounding that as per directions, still won't connect the ground and neutral.

Once I get my $150 interlock plate installed and the generator connected with a proper 4 wire cable, the ground and neutral will be tied together at the main box. The plate will provide an approved, MANUAL transfer switch preventing any connection between the utility and generator hot legs. You can have either the back feed breaker or the main on, but never both.

I hope the furnace works. I was going to try pig tailing the furnace to the generator while the weather was cool, but spent too much time here to do it. If the problem is a lack of connection between the ground and neutral, it still wouldn't have worked. If indeed it is the power, I could always put a small UPS on the furnace controls.

All equiptment used for electric has to be UL/CSA approved. Home brew equiptment has killed or injured many people over the years. What I find rather funny is the fact that a knowledgeable person would even consider trying to build an item that is Illegal to use.

I still carry my electric safety inspectors (ESI) ticket for inspections in the State of Ohio/Indiana/Kentucky. When I hear of this sort of stuff going on it sends a bad message to all the other posters/search engine users.

This is not a slap in the face and my other post was not eighter. It was a simple heads up as to the problems that can be caused by using the wrong equiptment just to save a few bucks.

A possible answer for the furnace problem is to check to make sure you have 60 cycles on tap. Some generators have a problem with this. Also some generators can be switched from 50 to 60 cycles. If the cycling is off it will create problems with sensitive electronic circuits especially since the furnace control circuit is 24 volts after the transformer. Also check the transformer for 24 volts when operating on the generator. Sounds like you have relay chatter (noise) and usually that is caused by to low a voltage for the control circuits.

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Originally Posted by PKA

I have a York Two-Stage Deluxe Diamond (PDU) furnace that I have recently wired to a 6 CKT transfer switch (Reliance Controls) to use with my Coleman 6250 (5000watt) gas generator. All my ckts. work well with the generator connected, except the furnace. I switched ckts on the transfer switch-no better. I believe the problem is with the furnace-generator, when switched. The furnace is getting 120vac with the generator, but it seems I am only getting a solenoid? noise when on generator power. (like it is always clicking?) and the fan wants to go on the furance. Could anyone help? I know I have the transfer switch wired correctly, per instructions and as I said I am getting 120vac to the furnace with the generator.

Thank you

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That "solenoid noise " you are hearing is is the ignition system as your furnace is either ittermittant pilot or direct spark. The fan you hear is not the blower fan but the ventor fan. But why your furnace will not light when on generator is throwing me. Down by the blower there will be a small grey (Honeywell) or black (Camstat) box. That is your ignition control. Maybe your ignition control does not like generators. Check the specs of the ignition control.

I think it is the power quality. My TV, computer and everything else in the house works except the furnace.
I was informed by an electrical engineer that the generator puts out mucho harmonics and furnace boards are very sensitive to that.
When you think think about it how many people have been caught on fire by a computer or television?
I tried a parallel capacitor to filter the "noise", bonded the neutral inside the generator according to the manufacturers directions, still no luck.
I am looking for a power conditioner (but I don't ever know what it is)
Good Luck, I'll need it.

Using the Hz meter you can adjust the governor throttle screw to raise or lower the engine speed
To get an optimum 60-62 Hz setting. You may want to load your generator with the most
Common load you will be using and then adjust the screw to give you an adjustment within the
60-62 Hz range. If you set it too high, then it means you are running the engine faster than
Need be and will add to premature or serious engine damage to the internal parts. It is
Mechanically governed to maintain the proper engine speed once it has the standard setting in
Place. Do not attempt to adjust this governor throttle adjustment screw without the proper tools
Available. You can not do it by ear! If you do not have a Hz meter or tachometer available, then
You can use a conventional electric clock with a sweep hand for seconds. If you plug the clock
Into the generator, a proper engine speed would make the clock do a minute in exactly 60
Seconds against any other timing device. If the clock takes longer to do a timed minute, then the
Engine speed is too slow and you need to raise the engine speed; turn the governor throttle
Screw clockwise. On the other hand, if your clock does a minute in less than a normal clock
Minute, then you need to lower the engine speed, turn the governor throttle screw counter
Clockwise. Now you should have a good setting for your generators frequency setting. It is best
To do a frequency setting before doing any voltage adjustment.

SEE POST above^
Technical Bulletin
Number: 2050012
Issued: January 4, 2007 Page 1 of 1 Bulletin 2050012
AVR Voltage Adjustment
This bulletin covers the following Champion Power Equipment models:
C46535 C41150 C41365
C46540 C41155 C75520E
C49055 C41255 C71350E
Note: Read instructions completely before performing service.
1. On the end of the generator locate the round yellow cover held on by two 7mm bolts.
Remove the two bolts and the yellow cover will come right off.
2. At approximately 7 o'clock you'll see a kidney shaped electrical component called the AVR,
which is held on by two 7mm bolts. Remove the two bolts but do not disconnect the wiring
and turn the AVR over so you can see the backside. You should see a round part coming off
the AVR, this is the capacitor. You should also see a small rectangular box with a jewelers
screw, this is your voltage adjustment screw.
3. With a flat head screw driver turn the jewelers screw counter clockwise and this will lower
the voltage. As the screw is turned back watch the volt meter to see adjustment, the
generator must be running to do this.
4. Adjust the screw until the meter reads 250 volts. On model C46540 when the toggle switch
is turned to the 120 side the volt meter should read around 130 volts. Optimum voltage is
121.8 volts.
I did the adjustment in the prior post and my Goodman GMH0904CXB furnace fired right up, after two days of frustration

Glad you figued that out and that it is safe. Most if not all generators offer some kind of adjustment but most adjust differently so you need the factory manual or information. Now when your electric takes a dump you can fire over the genset and stay warm.

I just had the same problem and fixed it with a shaper. The sign wave from the generator is fine for most things BUT not for my LENNOX DIGITAL CONTROLLER. The shaper goes between the generator and the furnace. It fired right up then. It's just another DIGITAL problem. Digital anything sucks. I mean - they had four backup computers on the shuttle. What does that tell you?! Also bare in mind that a pocket transistor radio is much more complicated technically then the LENNOX DIGITAL CONTROLLER and yet the controller is priced in the hundreds of dollars. All this digital c--p brings be down. OK I feel better now! Thanks for letting me vent!

What is a "shaper"? I tried a "conditioner" but that didn't help.

Hi.

I installed a reliance furnace switch to my breaker box and encountered two problems.

The wires are as follows.

The circuit breaker has a black power wire and a white ground to the ground bar.
The single manual furnace switch has the following. 1-black 1-red 1-green 1-white wire.

The installation process for installing the switch is as follows.

Connect the red to the breaker and join the blacks together and connect the green and white wires to the ground bar in the breaker box.

Addition to this is the plug connection on the front of the transfer switch. Which has three connecting wires
1-black 1-white and 1-green wire. These wires are connected to the front plug for the generator cord.

The first problem that I encountered is the clicking of the furnace and second the breakers on the generator would trip when plugging in the generator cable to the transfer switch plug.

I did some research on the internet and found a issue with double ground connections that caused both of this problems.

Do the following...

Disconnect the green wire connected to the front plug and tape it off. This is the problem.

After that you should have the following...

The red to the breaker
The blacks joined
The white to the ground bar
The green to the ground bar ( if you notice the green is connected from the screw inside the transfer switch case to two different directions
1. to the ground bar which grounds the transfer switch case to the breaker box.
2. Connects to the third prong on the front plug. That's the problem. You have a double ground problem.
The green should only ground the case only...

Also when connecting the green to the breaker box ground bar make sure it is on its own screw and not joined together with the white wire.

This fixed both problems... I hope this helps

In response to Labman, computers have power converters in them- they don't use the 120v AC that comes from the power company or generator but convert it into DC or lower volts.
I think that the furnace works with the 120V AC without conversion. Hence the sensitivity to poor quality power.