I replaced the ceiling fan/light combo in the mstr bdrm and am putting the replaced ceiling fan/light combo in my daughter's room, where there was only a ceiling mount light before.

At the ceiling is a ground wire and a white, a black and a red wire. The fan/light has a black, blue, white and ground wire.

The switch is a single pole and I'm fine if my daughter has to use the chains to operate the fan/light.

So, at the ceiling, I hooked the white to white and the grounds together. I put the black and blue wires to the red wire, and nothing happened. So I put the black and blue wires to the black wire, and got power. Yay, so I think my problems are over.

I had originally taken the single switch off with intentions to put a dual switch plate in. Then I believed the switch isn't wired for a dual, so I was just going to put the single switch back in and be done with it.

However, I never could figure out how to "push here to release" the copper wires, so I cut them off. To the existing switch plate, the wire on top was red and the bottom was black, with the ground screwed onto the green screw.

Then I bought a new single switch plate and hooked the red and black wires to it. Lo and behold, the power is always on now to the ceiling fan/light. The switch does nothing.

Is the new switch faulty? Have I wired something wrong? How in the heck do those push and release switches work? I attempted to swap out my son's switch plate to see if the new switch plate was faulty, and I can't get his wires out of his plate either. So now I have 2 single pole switch plates with copper wires cut and hanging out and one new one in the wall attached (the kind you just wrap around the screws) that won't shut off.

I'm about to hire an electrician, but I hate to because I think I'm close.

OK, you appear to be killing yourself.

I want you to look in the outlet in the ceiling. You should see one cable from the service panel. Is that wire the Black, Red, White and a bare ground?

You also should see a wire going to the switch. If that is the Black, red, white and ground, I need to know that. Depending on the source wire from the breaker will gate the connection process.

First, are there two light switches in the room to control the light? Next, if you see three wires going back to the breaker panel then Black and Red are voltage carrying lines. White is neutral and bare is ground.

If the wire going to the switch is the three wire then that wire is being used as a switch loop. If that is true, the Red wire going to the switch gets connected to the Black wire that is fed from the service panel.

On the top of the switch, connect the black wire and at the other end, connect the Black (power for fan) and blue (power for the light) to the Black from the switch. Connect the whites together and then connect the ground wires together.

That should do it for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by donf

OK, you appear to be killing yourself.

Killing myself would have been unintentional at the start of this project, undecided at the moment.

I want you to look in the outlet in the ceiling. You should see one cable from the service panel. Is that wire the Black, Red, White and a bare ground?

yes

You also should see a wire going to the switch. If that is the Black, red, white and ground, I need to know that. Depending on the source wire from the breaker will gate the connection process.

Black, red & white are in one cable at the ceiling outlet, plus the bare ground. That's all I see there.

First, are there two light switches in the room to control the light?

No, just one light switch.

Next, if you see three wires going back to the breaker panel then Black and Red are voltage carrying lines. White is neutral and bare is ground.

At the single wall outlet, there are 3 cables going into the box. Each cable includes 1 black, 1 white and 1 ground. 2 of the cables are at the top of the box and 1 cable at the bottom of the box. There is one red wire coming out of one of the cables on the top. The three white wires are capped together. The grounds are capped together with one ground wire coming out that was connected to the switch at the green screw. The three black wires are capped with one black wire coming out that was attached to the bottom of the old switch bronze screw. And the red wire was attached to the top of the old switch other broze screw.

If the wire going to the switch is the three wire then that wire is being used as a switch loop. If that is true, the the Red wire going to the switch gets connected to the Black wire that is fed from the service panel.

Is the service panel the top of the ceiling fan/light? So at the ceiling, I need to connect the red wire to the black wire?

On the top of the switch, connect the black wire and at the other end, connect the Black (power for fan) and blue (power for the light) to the Black from the switch. Connect the whites together and then connect the ground wires together.

You lost me here. Isn't the switch the thing on the wall? There is only a red, black and ground available to attach to the plate.

That should do it for you.

---

By the way, thanks for your help. I'm a mother of two and feel so feeble now, lol.

All right, I got it. Thanks for your help. I ran the blue and black (light and fan) to the red wire. The red wire and the black wire are attached to the new switch plate.

The fan and light are working now off the switch and I'm just going to have my daughter use the chain for the fan.

I still need to reuse one of the original switch plates that I could never get the stupid wires out of. The "push here to release". Is there a trick to those? I've stuck a nail in the slot and pushed and the wires still won't come out.

You may safely have the fan and light working, but I still don't think the job is right. Donf gets very confused about wiring light switches, and others and I have had to correct many of his answers. He seems to be completely unable to get the concept that the black/white wire coming into the bottom of the wall switch box could be the hot wire from the breaker box. The most common use of a red/black/white cable is for a 3 way switch where either of 2 switches can control the same light. Another use is to use 2 switches to control 2 different things in the same place. If the switch has 3 screws or holes in it, it was meant for a 3 way switch. If so, post back, and somebody will help you with it.

I think what you have in the switch box is one pair of wire feeding the circuit, a second pair going out the top to feed something else, and the 3 conductor pair going to the light fixture where only 2 were used.

Your switch box is the typical 2'' x 4''? What you could do is buy a pair of switches meant to mount where one goes in such a box. Connect the bottom black wire to one screw on each switch plus the one from the other pair. Connect the red and black each to the second screw one of the switches. Connect the black wire at the fan to the fan's black wire, and the red to the blue. Leave all the whites connected, and the bares connected to themselves and any green screws in the box, fan, and switch. Then the witch with the black wire will control the fan, and the one with the red, the fan.

If the switch box is 4'' x 4'', and has room for 2 regular switches, buy another and wire as I said above. Getting the wires out of these push in switches is a pain. A small screwdriver works better than a nail, you sort to have to pry the spring away from the wire. A new switch only costs about a buck. You might pitch it.

Before ceilingfanrepair joined, I used to answer these questions, but when somebody with both more knowledge and interest came, I was happy to leave fans to him. I haven't said enough good about him recently. He does a great job on such questions. I see no reason not to leave them to him unless I think I need to clear something up.

I sort of figured the homebuilder may have wired it for the possibility of a ceiling fan/light combo to be added later. I may put in a dual switch in the spring, but for the winter, I'm okay with my daughter using the fan. I am going to save what you wrote though so I'll know what to do later. The receptacle is 2x4". I finally figured out that I didn't need to use the holes. I broke off the remaining copper wire in the holes, and then just used the screws on the side to hook the red and black in the wall. Worked great. I live out in the country now, so driving an hour roundtrip for a $1 switch was not what I really wanted to do. Thanks for your help.

I have never had any trouble with pushed in wires until I tried to take them back out. Our real electrician, tkrussell, says they are a frequent source of trouble. Chances are, you are better off using the screws.

Labman, I have no qualm with power being supplied to the switch and then to ceiling outlet, so please let that horse out to pasture. Because it can be said that you are equally fixated on bring source power to the switch instead of to the overhead. I prefer my method or yours, can we agree to disagree?

CFLT - You have got to replace that outlet as soon as possible especially if any piece of the broken wires are sticking out the back. That's an installation process known as backstabbing. But my concern is that you may have opened yourself up to a short or fire situation.

Also, with respect to your wall outlet. It appears from your new description of the outlet that the builder did indeed bring power into the switch via the black leg to the switch. The output of the switch (power) is carried up to the overhead fixture by the red lead.

In the overhear, you should now have red from the switch to black from the fan and blue from the light package.

The colors for "Hot" wires are Black, Red, Blue. Sometimes when coming to the switch you will find a white wire with black, red or blue tape wrapped around the end of the insulation. This is to let you know that this wire is no longer a "Neutral" conductor. It is a "Hot" wire.

I think Donf means switch not outlet. I fail to see how having a cut off hot wire exposed is anymore dangerous setting in the box than the bare, exposed, hot screws. I would leave things as they are until you decide to add another switch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by donf

The colors for "Hot" wires are Black, Red, Blue.

---

Are you referring to these colors specifically for this installation, or ceiling fans in general, or as the required colors for branch circuit hot wires?

For ceiling fans.

Ceiling fan wiring - Ceiling Fans N More

The OP could have connected black to black, blue to red, white to white and had separate fan and light control.

If all you have in your switch box is the two wires (black and red) then you can only have one switch.