"While conservatives like Steyn call for a display of this confidence in reaction to controversies like the "cartoon jihad," it is they who lack confidence in our civilization’s ability to absorb and assimilate immigrants. This was honestly confessed in a March 30 column by Peggy Noonan in the Wall Street Journal, in which she wrote that opposition to immigration springs less from "fear about 'them'" than from "anxiety about us."

"There is a grain of truth to this fear about the failure to assimilate immigrants. The phenomenon of "political correctness" and the corruption of the teaching of American history in our schools—most notably, the attempt to portray slavery and racism, not the fight for liberty, as the essence of our history—are real threats to the process of assimilation.


"But the issue of political correctness only incidentally connects to immigration. If the ability of our culture to induct people into the values of our civilization is in doubt, then 11 million illegal immigrants are a relatively small problem. What we really ought to be worried about is a group of 75 million people who desperately need to be assimilated into America's culture of individualism, taught the essential facts about America's history, and encouraged to appreciate the virtues of our political system.

An interesting take on immigration; for the whole story follow the link.

The Intellectual Activist

Every wave of immigration, whether Irish, Italian, Asian, Hispanic etc.. Has faced discrimination.

It isn't a conservative or liberal thing. It is a human thing.

But what other country in the world, with a comparable population , has our diversity, freedom, and relative peace that can compare to the US.

And, I believe, the conservative argument is not about assimilation, but about the rule of law.

As to assimilation, why is that a bad thing. Problems rise when people see things in "us vs them" terms rather than in terms of "we."





Grace and Peace

Why is it so hard for people to understand the real issue?No one is objecting to immigration or the pursuit of the American Dream.All we ask is for there to be a legal process so that the first act of the "immigrant " is not breaking the laws of the nation they wish to adopt ,and that the government once the laws are in place make an honest effort to enforce them .

I agree with the authors contention that American youth are not being properly educated about what it means to be American. Civics should be reintroduced into the education system . And yes;we could do well with a lot less PC.

First of all, it is important to understand that Bush and his followers are *not* conservatives. Real conservatives such as William F. Buckley and George Will and others have brought that to America's attention. Bush and his policies resemble Fascism, not Conservatism. (I will post in the future the reasons he is a fascist).

Bush has done nothing to curb illegal immigration over our southern border because corporate interests want cheap labor.

Your quotes are out of context, so I'll just say that immigrants who achieve middle class status in a generation from all cultures assimilate just fine. :) It is the poor people who remain in ghetto like surroundings speaking their native tongue and underachieving.

It's really a moral issue isn't it, what gives them a moral right to restrict immigration; immigration is about the individual's right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," a right that is universal and applies to all men, whether they were born in America or not.

“There is no conflict between the moral and the practical, and so immigration is not just required by the principle of individual rights—it also provides powerful economic benefits.

“….immigrants like the Indian computer programmers who are granted special visas set aside for highly skilled workers. But America also benefits from Mexican day-laborers who bring no special skill other than the capacity for hard work. After all, Emma Lazarus didn't say, "send me your artists and Ph.D.s"; she asked for the "wretched refuse of your teeming shore"—knowing that people considered "refuse" in the Old World would become productive citizens in a free society.”

Tom

Then you do not believe that it is an individual's right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," a right that is universal and applies to all men? Just to the fortunate who through no effort of their own where born in America.

OH, no I didn't read the link... my bad. Will check it out later and get back to your question.

Regards,

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America

"The first and most fundamental argument in favor of unrestricted immigration is a moral argument. Immigration is about the individual's right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," a right that is universal and applies to all men, whether they were born in America or not. That includes a foreigner’s right to come to the United States, to rent or buy a home from an American, and to accept a job from an American employer—his right to pursue "the American dream." (See "Americans Against the American Dream," TIA, Vol. 19, Nos. 5 & 6.)




Some intellectually challenging questions:

If the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a "universal" right, why don't other countries have this in their constitution?

Are other countries afraid of adopting something peculiar to America, and are afraid to assimilate it into their form of government and culture?

Why don't other countries have "open borders ?"

Why is it endorsed by these people that the US has an open border and not expect the same from the rest of the world?

Is not the American Dream possible because our founding fathers started out with rules and laws? If these laws are violated, or not enforced, what guarantee is there that the American Dream will remain so?

Then we will become like third rate countries where some of these immigrants are coming from. Is this what they ultimately want to achieve?


Your article uses the perjorative term "anti - immigrant" - the correct term is "anti-illegal immigrant."



"Two thirds of these immigrants also pay Social Security taxes, even though they will never be eligible to collect benefits. "
and that is because they are ...... illegal? or using fake or stolen SS#s?


I do agree that there is a "The American anti-war, pro-communist group" and
"We must grasp where the threat truly originates: with our high-school teachers, our college professors, our political commentators, our Hollywood screenwriters. "


Just a side note, my parents came here legally, my father a recruited professional.
My parents taught and instilled American values of hard work, education, personal responsibility, and self-reliance.




Grace and Peace

Quote:

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Originally Posted by inthebox

"The first and most fundamental argument in favor of unrestricted immigration is a moral argument. Immigration is about the individual's right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," a right that is universal and applies to all men, whether they were born in America or not. That includes a foreigner’s right to come to the United States, to rent or buy a home from an American, and to accept a job from an American employer—his right to pursue "the American dream." (See "Americans Against the American Dream," TIA, Vol. 19, Nos. 5 & 6.)




Some intellectually challenging questions:

If the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a "universal" right, why don't other countries have this in their constitution?

Are other countries afraid of adopting something peculiar to America, and are afraid to assimilate it into their form of government and culture?

Why don't other countries have "open borders ?"

Why is it endorsed by these people that the US has an open border and not expect the same from the rest of the world?

Is not the American Dream possible because our founding fathers started out with rules and laws? If these laws are violated, or not enforced, what guarantee is there that the American Dream will remain so?

Then we will become like third rate countries where some of these immigrants are coming from. Is this what they ultimately want to achieve?


Your article uses the perjorative term "anti - immigrant" - the correct term is "anti-illegal immigrant."



"Two thirds of these immigrants also pay Social Security taxes, even though they will never be eligible to collect benefits. "
and that is because they are ...... illegal? or using fake or stolen SS#s?


I do agree that there is a "The American anti-war, pro-communist group" and
"We must grasp where the threat truly originates: with our high-school teachers, our college professors, our political commentators, our Hollywood screenwriters. "


Just a side note, my parents came here legally, my father a recruited profesional.
My parents taught and instilled American values of hard work, education, personal responsibility, and self-reliance.




Grace and Peace

---

Actually the article address’s most of your questions, except about what other countries are doing.

Did America begin with the assumption, that it was going to follow in the footsteps of a trail already blazed?

The answer is obliviously no.

The truth of the matter is that it began with the assumption of universal ideas—the ideas of individualism and liberty; in its Declaration of Independence: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That is what the “Rules and laws” you speak of were based on.were based on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Why is it so hard for people to understand the real issue?No one is objecting to immigration or the pursuit of the American Dream.All we ask is for there to be a legal process so that the first act of the "immigrant " is not breaking the laws of the nation they wish to adopt ,and that the government once the laws are in place make an honest effort to enforce them .

I agree with the authors contention that American youth are not being properly educated about what it means to be American. Civics should be reintroduced into the education system . And yes;we could do well with alot less PC.

---

Tom, I would never question your sincerity. But that comment has also been used by those lawmakers who want to stop immigration entirely, or limit it to families of existing immigrants.

It has been argued that quotas created illegal immigration

“Here's how hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants—mostly Europeans—became legal:

• The Registry Act of 1929 allowed immigrants who arrived before 1921 but had no record of their admission to register retroactively, for a $20 fee.
• From 1935 to the late 1950s, to keep families together, tens of thousands of Europeans unlawfully in the U.S. were allowed temporarily to go to Canada and reenter the States legally as a permanent resident.
• In 1940, Congress authorized the suspension of orders of deportation in cases of hardship, which it defined as "serious economic detriment" to the immigrant's immediate family. The guidelines have become less generous, but the principle remains in the law.
“In 1965, the U.S. repealed racial restrictions against Southern and Eastern Europeans and Asians, but the 1965 law also imposed quotas for the first time on Western Hemisphere countries. That created illegal immigration from Mexico and Central America.
The 1986 immigration reforms addressed the problem by legalizing nearly 3 million undocumented workers. It also called for increased enforcement—which didn't stop illegal immigration, it just made it more dangerous.”

How Grandma Got Legal

DC

Open immigration may have made sense when we were trying to settle a frontier . WE gave away land back in those days. But now I think the reality is that we should be selective in who we allow in. Yes ;I would give preferences to the Albert Einsteins and Ayn Randsthe Indian computer programmers ;the highly skilled workers.

Yes there is also room for the Mexican day laborer also . But why should the ones who cross the border illegally get preference over the family who tries to do it legally ? Streamline the process ;no problem . But I would not give another blanket amnesty like the 1986 one again until the government proves they are serious about border control. They fooled us then .We won't get fooled again.

My great grandparents on both sides went through Ellis Island. Which means before they stepped foot on the mainland the government had a name registered and some kind of health screening performed .

Well of course there has to be some control over immigration; but for the poor hiring an attorney is out of the question. All the effort seems to be pointed at keeping people out, rather than making immigration easier.

In the past seven months only 69 people from Iraq have been granted refuge in America; while hundreds of thousand would have liked to immigrate out of a situation we created there.
“President Bush, determined to stay the course in Iraq, has never spoken publicly about the problem of what is happening to Iraqis loyal to the Americans but caught in the deadly crossfire, first, from the insurgency and now a civil war. He has never spoken of our responsibility to help them.

“Last year, a cable from the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad was leaked to a reporter, revealing the U.S. has no contingency plans to help Iraqis if there is a withdrawal. Apparently, we learned little from the evacuation of Saigon. Even Iraqis who have been physically threatened for helping top U.S. government officials or translating for the military are not being given visas.

Iraq refugees find no refuge in America

That is a completely different subject . I agree we should take in refugees ;although with the progress being made I feel many of the refugees will be turning around and resettling in Iraq again .

Essays: 'Mission accomplished' by Bartle Bull | Prospect Magazine October 2007 issue 139

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

That is a completely different subject . I agree we should take in refugees ;although with the progress being made I feel many of the refugees will be turning around and resettling in Iraq again .

Essays: 'Mission accomplished' by Bartle Bull | Prospect Magazine October 2007 issue 139

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I agree, it appears a successful Democracy has been established, but that does not have anything to do with immigration and the past four and a half years of America not alloying Iraqis visas. It is however another example of a failed immigration policy as well as a failure to stand behind those who we encourage to fight for liberty.

The conservatives in this country just want to see immigrants enter here legally!
I am an immigrant, I came here legally. It was hard to move to this country to be honest with you. Why? Too many people want to come! Why? Because it is the most powerful country the land of opportunities. Many people abuse this country by doing ANYTHING THEY WANT TO DO WITHOUT A MORALITY GUIDE OR LAW.
It is very reasonable to enforce the law on immigration. You do need to check the background the immigrants and collect evidence of support they've got. You don't come here steal jobs away from Americans because you have comparative advantage on saving labor cost. And Americans don't pay any less towards legal immigrants, if you have a good degree and strong work ethics, they treat you fair! Thank America!
Most Americans I have met are very good people with an openning mind, there are a few not like that in the website though...
Americans love it when someone comes here LEGALLY.. They love an underdog story, they love to see people come here and become part of America, make some money and live a good life. :)

It only reinforces what many Americans believe / want to believe, that our society offers everyone a chance if they just want to work for it. I say come legally, make a million dollars, contribute to our society and embrace the American dream. We love it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nicespringgirl

The conservatives in this country just want to see immigrants enter here legally!
I am an immigrant, I came here legally. It was hard to move to this country to be honest with you. Why? Too many ppl want to come! Why? Because it is the most powerful country the land of opportunities. Many ppl abuse this country by doing ANYTHING THEY WANT TO DO WITHOUT A MORALITY GUIDE OR LAW.
It is very reasonable to enforce the law on immigration. You do need to check the background the immigrants and collect evidence of support they've got. You don't come here steal jobs away from Americans coz you have comparative advantage on saving labor cost. And Americans don't pay any less towards legal immigrants, if you have a good degree and strong work ethics, they treat you fair!! Thank America!
Most Americans I have met are very good people with an openning mind, there are a few not like that in the website though...
Americans love it when someone comes here LEGALLY.. They love an underdog story, they love to see people come here and become part of America, make some money and live a good life. :)

It only reinforces what many Americans believe / want to believe, that our society offers everyone a chance if they just want to work for it. I say come legally, make a million dollars, contribute to our society and embrace the American dream. We love it.

---

What is people, and how do you pronounce it? Is that American English?

EDIT: Most of the terrorist here came legally too; and whose morality guide?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

"While conservatives like Steyn call for a display of this confidence in reaction to controversies like the "cartoon jihad," it is they who lack confidence in our civilization’s ability to absorb and assimilate immigrants. This was honestly confessed in a March 30 column by Peggy Noonan in the Wall Street Journal, in which she wrote that opposition to immigration springs less from "fear about 'them'" than from "anxiety about us."

"There is a grain of truth to this fear about the failure to assimilate immigrants. The phenomenon of "political correctness" and the corruption of the teaching of American history in our schools—most notably, the attempt to portray slavery and racism, not the fight for liberty, as the essence of our history—are real threats to the process of assimilation.


"But the issue of political correctness only incidentally connects to immigration. If the ability of our culture to induct people into the values of our civilization is in doubt, then 11 million illegal immigrants are a relatively small problem. What we really ought to be worried about is a group of 75 million people who desperately need to be assimilated into America's culture of individualism, taught the essential facts about America's history, and encouraged to appreciate the virtues of our political system.

An interesting take on immigration; for the whole story follow the link.

The Intellectual Activist

---

That is without a doubt the biggest wad of crap I have ever heard! Why don't you invite them all over to your house and tell them they need to just go for it because no one, in America, will do it for them? Like my Irish fore fathers did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

What is ppl, and how do you pronounce it? Is that American English?

EDIT: Most of the terrorist here came legally too; and whose morality guide?

---

ppl=people, short form.

Morality guide is a system of rules that modifies our behaviour in social situations. (I am not talking about religion)

It's immoral to steal, to cheat, to lie and to talk bad about others... many many...
Being immoral doesn't necessarily mean you break the law, but it is harmful to others.