I have posted before about my wife's affair. No need to re-hash the story (and we are working HARD at repair).

My question is - how long should the affiar be talked about (or, ideally, when do you know when to "put it away" and bury it). It happened in March - it is almost October now - so 6 months ago. Yes - the pain has faded - but I drift in and out of "obsessing" about it. In the beginning we discussed it a LOT. Many sleepless nights. She was honest and told me everything.

But - over time - she got to the point where it was "enough already". She has been nice and supportive, but for the last month or so she refuses to answer any more questions and doesn't want me to bring it up. I guess (?? ) I do understand that at some point I have to move on and we have to truly put it behind us... but when is that? I still feel (sometimes) like it just happened but her communication is now closed about the subject.

She says that when we (I) discuss it she feels "put down" and "guilty" and "punished" and she is ready to move on and put the "mistake" behind us.

Is this normal after 5 or 6 months? Is she right... time to move on? Am I just keeping it alive to "put her down", or am I trying to find understanding?? All advice is welcome.

Obviously at some point it gets old. Everyone takes more times than others may in "moving past" cheating. Really ask yourself : Why you keep bringing it up? You've said that she's told you everything and was honest about it - I know in my personal experience I kept bringing it up just to hear him say he is sorry and wouldn't do it again. I finally got the picture.

Only you can answer how long is enough time, but since you have agreed to work and move on then you should. Rehashng old hurts is in no ones interest.While your working on your marriage, work on yourself. After a while it becomes your issue to deal with, not hers.

Why do you drift in and out of obsessing about it? What questions has she not answered already? Is it possible that you have not forgiven her and still feel anger toward her or still feel betrayed? I read some of your previous posts and noticed that you were involved with therapy but it wasn't clear if this was self-therapy through reading books, or actual talk-therapy. If you haven't gone to a marriage counselor, I strongly advise you to do so. First by yourself, then with your wife. You have talked about the fact that your behavior is controlling and that you recognized that. Well, not to be rude, just making an observation from an objective standpoint, it sounds like you haven't quite gotten a handle on it fully. What you are doing to your wife sounds like you haven't fully forgiven her and your questioning her to the extent that you do, may be another attempt to get back the control in your relationship. Having a controlling personality is very hard to extinguish in just a few months time. You have to remember that it took you 30 plus years to develop into the person you are. It takes time to learn how to adjust your thinking processes.

Ruby - you must be a counsellor or therapist... becasue you hit the nail on the head in EVERY regard.

We are in therapy with a very good "Adlerian / Choice Theory" PHD whom we both like. We go together and alone. Together we spend 2 hours (once a week) and then also alone as we need. But, at $160 per hour... it hurts the bank account. However, our marriage is worth it (we BOTH believe that).

Right now I am looking for "healing / forgiveness / trust" info. (books / DVD's) to help. I seem to be on this "quest" for info and meaning. I admit my "control" is hard to let go of (fyi... I am not "that" bad... but bad enough... obviously) especially after the affair - as my control "tells me" that it is trying to protect me from it happening again if that makes sense. It is like I am hyper-sensitive and aware all the time and I feel the need to be in control of situations in order to not let it all happen again. However, I also recognize that my control (and being "in charge" much of the time) was a major factor in the mistake she made. So I have this "battle" going on inside... and I really feel it.

I see this battle (I guess) as a good sign. It is like the "new me" is trying to fight with the "old me" (I know - sounds like I need meds - smile - but I am doing this dry). The change is painful though and very disconcerting.

So, yes, I am TRYING to forgive... but that means letting go of the pain... hard for a control person. And, I sometimes feel angry and I can feel it eating me inside. Betrayal is hardest from those closest to you... especially if you want to work it out and remain married!!

I HOPE THAT TIME DOES REALLY HEAL ALL WOUNDS. I have been told that... and so I can't "wish it away" fast enough!!

To conclude this post... my wife has been GREAT in every way. Supportive, understanding etc... she does have her own issues she is working on and overall she is back in the marriage 100% and working hard also. These feelings are DEFINITELY all ME. I am my own worst enemy ant the moment... justand afraid and anxious little kid...

You have mentioned twice here that she has been great in every way, supportive & understanding. What about you being supportive and understanding with her? You need to give that some thought this weekend.

Something else for you to think about regarding control: We can only control how WE ourselves, act and react to a situation. We CANNOT control how another person acts and reacts to a situation. It is an impossible task and logically, you know this. So, you need to digest that, think about it, and figure out a way for you to completely accept that little factoid and incorporate it into the way you deal with people on a daily basis. Especially your wife. This is something you should be discussing with your counselor during your sessions, and see if he/she has some suggestions or mental exercises that can help you accomplish this.

I truly wish you the best of luck. The first step in fixing our problems is to recognize that we have one. So, you are a step ahead of many other people by being as self-aware as you are. The figuring out how to fix it is the challenge we all have because as humans, we are so complex and different. Since I don't know you, I don't have a clue as to what to suggest to help you. But, I bet your counselor does. ;)

BRF, I was thinking about your response and something kept bothering me and I couldn't put my finger on it until now. Why hasn't your therapist recommended any books for you to read? Have you asked him/her?

I can't say that I have any personal experience with reading books regarding moving past infidelities and the healing process, but I did a search for you. Here is one that I found that sounds like it might be helpful. Amazon.com: Getting Past the Affair: A Program to Help You Cope, Heal, and Move On -- Together or Apart: Books: Douglas K. Snyder,Donald H. Baucom,Kristina Coop Gordon If you scroll down through the link, you will find other book recommendation that deal with the same subject matter. I would suggest that you find the time to go to your local Barnes & Noble or Borderbooks, and pick out an assortment of books that you believe will be helpful to you. Don't buy them yet, just pick out as many as you can find that you feel are possibilities. Then, buy a cup of coffee, sit down and start really thumbing through them. Narrow down your search to one or two books that really hit home and buy it/them.

More advice just what you need. No one can tell you how to get over an affair. There is not a time limit on getting over an ordeal like cheating. Sounds like you and your wife were very close and probably never intimate with anyone but each other. Myself I have had deaths in my family of people I loved dearly but that pain is not as bad as being betrayed by my wife. Mine has been 21 years and it's as real today as then. If we hadn't had small children then I would have left. People who get over affairs easily are ones that have had several relations with other people before their marriage and don't know the deep feeling you have with a spouse that you married because you loved only one person and you saved yourself for. Everyone wants you to go for counseling and maybe that would work sometimes but you know inside how you feel. I sickens me to hear other people tell you enough is enough let it go. Not so easily done when everyghing about you has been taken from you. My advice for anyone who is betrayed by someone they love so deeply is let them go unless you must stay because of children. Your marriage will never be the same and you will search for answers that will never be there. You will change from the man you are to someone else because the person you were wasn't who your wife wanted to be married to. If she had really loved you she wouldn't have cheated. When I would go back after a few weeks and needed to talk about it again my wife became angy and said she didn't want to talk about it anymore. Good for her she could go to sleep at night while I laid staring at the clock and hating myself because I failed to keep her love. I was a good husband and father and I loved her deeply. Your wife should tell you constantly how much she loves you to reasure you that she loves you and she is sorry for her mistake. She will become offensive because that's how she deals with her guilt. You must pay for her mistake, sorry that's how it is.
You do what you must do. As I said before I chose to stay because of my sons. I didn't give up on them just because my wife gave up on our marriage. If I had betrayed them and let some other man raise them then I would have lost out on so much of their lives. Well I'm sure I will get some negative feedback from some people but until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes,,
Good luck,

losthusband, I am not going to give you negative feedback here. I don't want to steal BRF's post, getting off topic and talking about your situation. We all handle the problems that arise in our marriages and life in general the best way we know how. When the problems are more difficult than usual, we need to find other ways to resolve them so that we can find happiness and satisfaction again. Sometimes it is leaving the marriage and getting a divorce. Sometimes it is staying and working through the issues. Everyone is different and everyone has their own tolerance level. But, I will never understand why anyone would prefer to live their entire life being unhappy, angry, and bitter. Unlike you, BRF seems to have gotten all the information, from every possible angle, from his wife about her infidelity. How many times is a person supposed to ask the same questions over and over again? The answers are not going to change. Doing this is a way to maintain control over the other party, to keep holding onto the betrayal, and making the other person pay for their stupidity on a daily basis. It keeps a person in a holding pattern and it isn't a constructive way to resolve a problem. BRF has consciously made the choice that he wants to move forward, fix his marriage, and find happiness in it. And, he is taking the proper steps that are working for him, to ensure that.

Losthusband... I have a choice. Leave and be single or stay and be married. Being single sounds (at times) like "the solution"... but it doesn't take much thought to realize that it has its own set of problems. Or, I could "find someone else" - but - as our therapist says... what do we expect to find.. perfection?? That doesn't exist.

My wife made a mistake because she felt distant from me. We own a pretty big company together and we both work there. We grew the company from $0 to over $30m in a few years... and the sales were driven by me. I could be very "controlling" and "dismissive" of people. I was mean at times, didn't listen, and put my wife in "second position". THe warning signs were there... and I ignored them. Then, that fateful day, at a "hip club" with friends - she met "him". He was there for one tihng - a stunning hunk I am told - and he was praying on my wife. He got what he wanted - on two separate occasions. I found out and the journey began.

What I am trying to say is that I am not innocent. While I cannot be "blamed" for IT... I WAS a factor. My wife felt alone, not respected, un loved. This opened the door for what happened.

SHe was devastated when I confronted her, she took it on the chin, and then SHE got to work telling me what I needed to do to allow EQUALITY to find a place in our relatiuonship. She did this because she DOES LOVE ME. She made a MISTAKE. She was crying out for help I think and her un-met needs were met by another... not sex... but the "feeling of being loved and important".

What I am trying to say... is that I am also to blame. If I was perfect... I would be more apt to leave. But I am not - I have control issues and self-esteem issues. Issues that pushed my wife to a mistake. It is time I look at ME and try to fix this mess... to give it a chance.

So, the chocie is simple. Stay or leave. Both are scary and hard. But, only one has the PROSPECT of true love and happiness in my opinion. So I am struggling through the emotions - and THEY ARE THERE ALMOST CONSTANTLY THERE. But, what can I do... I have to give it a chance... an oppoortunity. So her I am... trolling the Internet and book stores looking for "UNDERSTANDING"... if it exists.

As long as we are BOTH working on it we have a chance. As soon as one of us gives up we both need to move on. I wish you the best - but after 21 years you need to try to find some peace. Life is too short. I have given my marriage 2 years to "figure out"... so I have 18 months to go!!

I also wish you peace and happiness. I hope whatever you do is the right choice for your happiness. I was very good to my wife. I worked hard making the best living I could for her and my sons. I too put in a lot of overtime just so we could get by. I never loved anyone else in my life but her so I truly was devistated. I believe when a person loves someone and feels rejected or no longer needed then their choice is not to turn to another person but to separate themselves until they can work it out or resolve it. Your wife could have had a relationship with another man without having sex. Sex is always what they do even if they say it was not what they were looking for. I recorded my wife's phone conversations after I realized something was wrong with her. I heard her tell him she wanted to meet him again. She met him one time before and didn't come in until the morning hours while I stayed home with my two young sons. Her mother lived in another town so she would go visit her often. She went a lot by herself because I understood she needed to see her. My wife has never admitted to having sex with him but I know that when a man fools around with another man's wife he wants only one thing. She spent many hours on the phone talking to him for months before I started checking the phone records. You see I totally trusted her. We went through months of hell and I tried to put it behind me and just when I thought I could trust her I found out she had thousands of dollars of credit cards and loans I knew nothing about. When I asked her about it she said it was her business and she didn't have to tell me how she spent the money. We borrowed money to pay it back and she promised me she would never do it again. She waited three days and started doing it again. Another year passed and I found another debt for thousands more. If she had spent the money on our home or out children then I would have understood. I check everything now, even dig through my trash can to be sure she hasn't any secrets I know nothing about. Maybe having to do this for 21 years has made me doubt that my happiness could ever exist. Hardest part is that I still love her and couldn't imagine loving anyone else. I would have left her if we hadn't had children. I couldn't bear to have them away from me. If you can love and trust your wife again then I hope you can work it out. Be strong and don't let this change how you fee about yourself.

As one who has cheated and been cheated on,

Normal - probably.
She is right.
There is no understanding, and it does not change what happened.
Rehashing things is looking backwards, you got to move forward and forgive or you will never have peace.

It is good that you are both working at it and that it is fading. Best of luck.






Grace and Peace

Inthebox... you said you have been on both sides of cheating. Were you cheated on first or the other way around? I am interested to hear your perspective.

I only know "one side" (being cheated on). But it is hard for me to "understand" my wife's position... heck... she says she doesn't even fully understand it (and I believe her).

One interesting thing is that she says she would never do it again because of the TRAUMA SHE WENT THROUGH AND THE TRAUMA IT PUT ME THROUGH. She says that if things are not working at any point she would leave first and then be "free" to make decisions for herself. She says the guilt of cheating was not worth it even BEFORE I found out. I guess this makes sense.

BRF,, How do you feel about yourself now that this has happened? Had you been intimate with many other women before your wife and had she? When I chose my wife and she chose me we hadn't ever been with anyone else so I thought. That was so important for me because I believed strongly about this and would not have let myself fallen in love with her if she had been with other men. That is what I believed a marriage had to be so this is why I am still having such a tough time. In my case I really didn't ever believe she regretted what she did because after her affair she went behind my back so many times and lied to me about money and things. Maybe the one I need to forgive is myself because I feel like such a failure. I wanted so much to give her what she needed and was so proud to have her for my wife and the Mother of my sons. She was a beautiful girl and I was (so I was told) a nice looking guy so we made a good couple. She came from a broken home and both parents gave her up to her Grandmother to raise. When I started dating her I found her Mother and sisters and brought them back together. She hadn't seen them since she was a young girl and wouldn't try to find them because she was afraid of her Dad and Grandmother. I was the only stability she ever had and loved her more than she had ever been loved. My parents were the model parents. My Mother was a stay at home Mom who gave every second of her life for her family. I didn't understand how parents could leave their children and not care if they were safe and happy.
If your wife is truly sorry she won't do things behind your back and she will try so hard to keep you from doubting her again. She has a tought job ahead of her and she is the one who must be sure this thing doesn't let it completely destroy you. You will know if she is truly sorry because it will show. She has lost a lot of credibility and must build it back. My life has been such a roller coaster and I've had so many different feelings I wonder how I made it this far. My sons are grown now but still expects to have Mom and Dad at home when they return so I feel like I still have a duty to keep their home together. Since I can't bring it up to her again talking about it to people like you help relieve the pain that builds inside me. I hope your wife realizes she can never tell you enough how much she loves you and look into your eyes with a sincere heart and assure you she never wants anyone other than you. Thanks for sharing with me and again I hope your life is very happy!!

BRF..
I was the first... hers was mainly in retaliation. She wanted to make me feel how bad I hurt her. I have the usual "excuses".. sex, ego boost, no risk of rejection because the other made it plain - which is no real excuse for what I've done. I have always loved my wife as incongrous as that sounds. The guilt is what gets you. Not being yourself, not relaxing. And after I admitted it, the worst part is the hurt that I've caused my wife. Hurting the one you love is bad. One does not realize this in th moment when lust takes over. She cheated with a 'friend' of mine. And I hated him more than her at the time. I wished all sorts of evil on him even though I know that that was not the right thing. I forgave my wife, probably as penance for what I've done. Its been 2 years and the frequency with which my wife reminds me or brings it up is much much less. My 'friend' never brought it up. My hate for him made me sick, and then one morning I got up early and just went to his house and told him sorry for how much I hated him, and that I was tired of those feelings. He probably thought I went there to kick his a.. it took him by surprise. And the amazing thing was I felt so much better.

My wife and I are not innocent and can never go back, but thus far we have beaten the odds - no one gave us a fighting chance. We talk with each other, honestly. We talked to others about it. We pray about it. As hard as it was, and we would never want to go through it again or relive this, we are stronger for it.

Love and forgiving is active... when we get into it and emotions and hurt and anger creeps up I remember and go through this in my head.
1 Corinthians 4:
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8Love never fails.


I know it is very hard for you now, but if you believe and work at it, it will get better.







Grace and Peace

Lost...

You do have to forgive yourself.. . Before you can forgive her.
You see yourself as the knight in shining armour and there should be no reason for what has happened. But it happened.. unfortunantly. Everyone fails. Its what happens after the failure that counts the most.






Grace and Peace

Top quality posts by all. THANK YOU.

Someone told me that the bigger the problems you can get through TOGETHER then the closer you will be and the longer you will last.

So, we should all expect to be happily married for about a billion years after this... upward and onward!!