Ask Me Help Desk - Revelation or hearsay ?

This question is for christians & muslims both. Why do christians take the bible, & muslims take the quran, as a revelation from God ? All they have is some alleged prophet's word, who supposedly spoke directly to God & conveyed the message to you either through word of mouth or writing, that it is from God. If I told you something directly to you that you did not know that would be a revelation. However, if I told something directly to someone else, & then they told you that's what I said, that is only hearsay. What is hearsay ? It is second hand information that you did not receive directly from the source, & generally hearsay is not admissible in a court of law. Why take the alleged prophet's word for it that God spoke to him, when you yourself didn't receive it directly from God ?

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Originally Posted by deist

This question is for christians & muslims both. Why do christians take the bible, & muslims take the quran, as a revelation from God ? All they have is some alleged prophet's word, who supposedly spoke directly to God & conveyed the message to you either through word of mouth or writing, that it is from God. If I told you something directly to you that you did not know that would be a revelation. However, if I told something directly to someone else, & then they told you that's what I said, that is only hearsay. What is hearsay ? It is second hand information that you did not receive directly from the source, & generally hearsay is not admissible in a court of law. Why take the alleged prophet's word for it that God spoke to him, when you yourself didn't receive it directly from God ?

I have faith and believe in Allah, and the Quran.
This is enough for me to have faith and believe that the Quran is the word of Allah.

If you told me something I did not know, it might be a revelation to me,but it will not be a revelation from the Almighty.

About calling the Quran Hearsay, it is what you believe, and I do not believe it to be hearsay, so it makes little difference to my faith whether you believe or not.

I do not need to have the whole world confirming the book I believe in,nor do I need the whole world accepting all the Prophets and Messengers (peace be upon them all) in order for me to have firm belief in my religion and its teachings.
I do not need validation from the human race to have faith in Allah.

And for that matter why should I take your alleged word for the Quran not being a revelation. As you can only assume it is not the word of the Almighty as per your belief.

What if you are wrong in your assumptions?
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Some who do not believe, call Muhammad (pbuh) a mad man who had hallucinations and some also call him a genius for planning and succeeding in his plan to rule the people of Mecca.
I do not think that a man could be a genius and a hallucinating mad man, it is contradictory in itself.

The Quran mentions the orbit of planets,the forming of a foetus in the womb and its stages.If as some non-believers assume Muhammad(pbuh) to be hallucinating, how can he have come up with such facts?
If he(pbuh) was after power and glory among his people why did he not live a rich life after becoming a leader for his people.There would be days his family would have little to eat, other days he would fast.

So if someone was a mad-man, one would not or could not lead a warring tribalistic people to put down their swords and bow down to the Almighty.Nor would such a person be able to rule justly,nor would such a person be freeing slaves and giving women respect(in a society where female infanticide was the norm).

In all of this and more I cannot find any reason to doubt in the revelation of the Quran by Allah to Muhammad(pbuh) through Gabriel (alaihi salaam)
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Mohammed The Prophet By Prof. K. S. Ramakrishna Rao,a non muslims views on Muhammad (pbuh).

It's called FAITH.

When your father told you to jump down off the brick wall and he would catch you, did you believe him? Did you have faith?

Quote:

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

I have faith and believe in Allah, and the Quran.
This is enough for me to have faith and believe that the Quran is the word of Allah.

If you told me something I did not know, it might be a revelation to me,but it will not be a revelation from the Almighty.

About calling the Quran Hearsay, it is what you believe, and I do not believe it to be hearsay, so it makes little difference to my faith whether you believe or not.

I do not need to have the whole world confirming the book I believe in,nor do I need the whole world accepting all the Prophets and Messengers (peace be upon them all) in order for me to have firm belief in my religion and its teachings.
I do not need validation from the human race to have faith in Allah.

And for that matter why should I take your alleged word for the Quran not being a revelation. As you can only assume it is not the word of the Almighty as per your belief.

What if you are wrong in your assumptions?
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Some who do not believe, call Muhammad (pbuh) a mad man who had hallucinations and some also call him a genius for planning and succeeding in his plan to rule the people of Mecca.
I do not think that a man could be a genius and a hallucinating mad man, it is contradictory in itself.

The Quran mentions the orbit of planets,the forming of a foetus in the womb and its stages.If as some non-believers assume Muhammad(pbuh) to be hallucinating, how can he have come up with such facts?
If he(pbuh) was after power and glory among his people why did he not live a rich life after becoming a leader for his people.There would be days his family would have little to eat, other days he would fast.

So if someone was a mad-man, one would not or could not lead a warring tribalistic people to put down their swords and bow down to the Almighty.Nor would such a person be able to rule justly,nor would such a person be freeing slaves and giving women respect(in a society where female infanticide was the norm).

In all of this and more I cannot find any reason to doubt in the revelation of the Quran by Allah to Muhammad(pbuh) through Gabriel (alaihi salaam)
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Mohammed The Prophet By Prof. K. S. Ramakrishna Rao,a non muslims views on Muhammad (pbuh).

I don't know much about Muhammed, so I neither judge him as a mad man or a genius. But what of some fundamentalist christian claims that he molested a 9 year old girl & later took her to wife ? I'm not saying he did mind you. I'm just asking.

Muhammed did marry a 9 ( or 10) year old, but from Muslim teaching it was a marriage without sex at her age.

But again Muhammed was to Islam a prophet, not god, so just like in Christianity, many of the prophets in the Christian old testement lived a lot less than a sinless life.

From what I have looked up most scholars agree that the Bible is the oldest written religious book. If the Bible is the oldest written book about God then wouldn't that mean that any other book would have stemed from the Bible? Changed, rearranged, added to, subtracted from, or what have you? Without the Bible, how would any of the authors of other books pertaining to God have even known God existed? Word of mouth changed over time? But wouldn't it have started with someone who read the Bible? How else would they have known? Unless of course the believers of other religious books pertaining to God believe that the authors were also told by God what to write. Is that it? This is just me now.. no one take offense because I don't mean anything harmful, but I would be skeptical about other religious books. I would have to wonder if the authors of other religious books really received their message from God because there is already one out there they could have gotten information from, and changed it to what they want it to be? In other words it's not original. I mean I know it comes down to faith. They have faith that the words of their book is true and correct like I have faith that the Bible is true and correct. Whereas deist wonders how/why people believe the Bible to be the true Word of God, I wonder why they don't.

Is the Bible the Oldest Religious Book?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitWaves

From what I have looked up most scholars agree that the Bible is the oldest written religious book. If the Bible is the oldest written book about God then wouldn't that mean that any other book would have stemed from the Bible? Changed, rearranged, added to, subtracted from, or what have you? Without the Bible, how would any of the authors of other books pertaining to God have even known God existed? Word of mouth changed over time? But wouldn't it have started with someone who read the Bible? How else would they have known? Unless of course the believers of other religious books pertaining to God believe that the authors were also told by God what to write. Is that it? This is just me now..no one take offense because I don't mean anything harmful, but I would be skeptical about other religious books. I would have to wonder if the authors of other religious books really received their message from God because there is already one out there they could have gotten information from, and changed it to what they want it to be? In other words it's not original. I mean I know it comes down to faith. They have faith that the words of their book is true and correct like I have faith that the Bible is true and correct. Whereas deist wonders how/why people believe the Bible to be the true Word of God, I wonder why they don't.

Is the Bible the Oldest Religious Book?

The reason why I don't accept the bible, the quran, or any holy book as a revelation from God is because it is second hand hearsay. An alleged prophet claimed to hear from God, & now he's telling you what God said. In order for it to be a true revelation I would have to hear directly from God myself, & not hear it from someone else who claimed they received the revelation from God. Also, if God had a message of such great import to humanity that their eternal destinies depended on it, why give it only to a handful of men confined to the middle east, to be dissemininated to the rest of humanity only over thousands of years ? Why not just give the same message to prophets in every nation since God obviously has the power to do so ? This would have been much more effective & it wouldn't have taken thousands of years to get the word out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitWaves

From what I have looked up most scholars agree that the Bible is the oldest written religious book. If the Bible is the oldest written book about God then wouldn't that mean that any other book would have stemed from the Bible? Changed, rearranged, added to, subtracted from, or what have you? Without the Bible, how would any of the authors of other books pertaining to God have even known God existed? Word of mouth changed over time? But wouldn't it have started with someone who read the Bible? How else would they have known? Unless of course the believers of other religious books pertaining to God believe that the authors were also told by God what to write. Is that it? This is just me now..no one take offense because I don't mean anything harmful, but I would be skeptical about other religious books. I would have to wonder if the authors of other religious books really received their message from God because there is already one out there they could have gotten information from, and changed it to what they want it to be? In other words it's not original. I mean I know it comes down to faith. They have faith that the words of their book is true and correct like I have faith that the Bible is true and correct. Whereas deist wonders how/why people believe the Bible to be the true Word of God, I wonder why they don't.

Is the Bible the Oldest Religious Book?

Isn't the Torah older than the Bible?

Quote:

Originally Posted by deist

I'm just asking.

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To read more please follow.Welcome to the Prophet Muhammad site - peace be upon him -
Percentage of his wives who were 17years and older = 91 %.Percentage of his wives who were widows = 75%
Comment: The statistics show that the prophet's marriage to Aisha at her young age was an exception and not a norm of his other marriages. Furthermore 'a pedophile's main mode of sexual satisfaction is with prepubescent girls', which is contradictory to the 91% of prophet's marriage to women 17 years and over. An unbiased examination of Prophet's life and his marriages to his wives blatantly rejects the notion of his lifestyle fitting that of a pedophile. All his brides were aged widows (except Aisha and Marium).
Moreover, according to the criteria in the references cited above in 'Synopsis of Psychiatry', a vast majority of pedophiles possess a history of exhibitionism, voyeurism, or rape. Again, there is no single reference from either religious or secular sources that the noble Prophet ever indulged in such sadistic behavior (God forbid). This truth is observed and accepted by both Muslims and unbiased non-Muslims scholars.

B. Others claim that the noble Prophet (peace be upon him) indulged in child-abuse when he married Aisha at her young age.
Let scrutinize this allegation…
Definition of Child Abuse: Child Abuse, also called CRUELTY TO CHILDREN, the willful and unjustifiable infliction of pain and suffering on children. The term can denote the use of inordinate physical violence; unjustifiable verbal abuse; the failure to furnish proper shelter, nourishment, medical treatment, or emotional support; incest; other cases of sexual molestation or rape; and the making of child pornography. Frequently described by the medical profession as the "battered-child syndrome," abusive treatment of children is almost universally proscribed by criminal statutes. Child abuse can have serious future consequences for the victims involved. Delays in physical growth, impaired language and cognitive abilities, and problems in personality development, learning, and behavior are common following instances of child abuse or neglect.Encyclopedia Britannica, 1998

Comment: None of the criteria of child-abuse applies to the noble life of the Prophet (pbuh). There is no single incident of any infliction of pain and suffering by the prophet on Aisha or any other human being for that matter. Neither any instance of verbal or sexual abuse can be concluded from the relationship of the prophet with Aisha ® or any of his wives.
An abused child can have serious future consequences…delayed physical growth, impaired language.. learning and behavior…etc (above definition). As one examines the chaste life of Aisha ®, her personality, physical, mental and spiritual development are all contrary to that of an abused child. In fact through the Prophet's marriage and his guidance to Aisha, history testifies that she should be labeled not as an abused child but as a 'blessed child'.

After analyzing and refuting the accusations against the noble character of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), the only viable alternative left with us is:
The Prophet married Aisha for the benefit of Islam and Humanity.
Lets analyze… The Prophet married Aisha primarily for three reasons:
To reinforce the friendly relations already existing with Abu Bakr (his closest companion).
To educate and train Aisha so she may serve the purposes of Islam.
To teach her to utilize her capabilities for the sake of Islam.

Her Marriage with the prophet was a Wahi (Divine Revelation). She, herself relates from the Prophet, 'He said, "I saw you in dreams three times. The angel brought you to me and you were clad in white silk. He (the angel) said that it was your consort and he (angel) showed me by opening your face. You are just like that…" Sahih Muslim, Vol.2, p.285.
Aisha ® was born after her parents had embraced Islam. Therefore, she was free from the defilement of polytheism right from her birth.
In her youth, already known for her striking beauty and her formidable memory, she came under the loving care and attention of the Prophet himself. As his wife and close companion she acquired from him knowledge and insight such as no woman has ever acquired.
Aishah lived on almost fifty years after the passing away of the Prophet. She had been his wife for a decade. Much of this time was spent in learning and acquiring knowledge of the two most important sources of God's guidance, the Quran and the Sunnah of His Prophet. Aishah ® was one of the three wives (the other two being Hafsa ® and Umm Salamah ®) who memorized the Revelation. Like Hafsa ®, she had her own script of the Quran written after the Prophet had died.
So far as the Hadith or sayings of the Prophet is concerned, Aishah ® is one of four persons (the others being Abu Hurrah, Abdullah ibn Umar, and Ana ibn Malik) who transmitted more than two thousand sayings. From her, 2210 Hadith have come, out of which 174 Hadith are commonly agreed upon by both Bukhari and Muslim. Many of her transmissions pertain to some of the most intimate aspects of personal behavior which only someone in Aishah's position could have learnt. What is most important is that her knowledge of Hadith was passed on in written form by at least three persons including her nephew Urwah who became one of the greatest scholars among the generation after the Companions. It is the claim of the Scholars of Islam that without her, half of the Ilm-I-Hadith [knowledge, understanding of the Hadith (and Islam)] would have perished.

Many of the learned companions of the Prophet and their followers benefited from Aishah's knowledge. Abu Musa al-Ashari once said: "If we companions of the Messenger of God had any difficulty on a matter, we asked Aisha about it."
"Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said from Said ibn al-Musayyab that Abu Musa al-Ashari came to Aishah, the wife of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said to her, "The disagreement of the companions in a matter which I hate to bring before you has distressed me." She said, "What is that? You did not ask your mother about it, so ask me." He said, "A man penetrates his wife, but becomes listless and does not ejaculate. "She said, "When the circumcised part passes the circumcised part ghusl is obligatory." Abu Musa added, "I shall never ask anyone about this after you." Al-Muwatta of Imam Malik Hadith 2.75

Arwa Bin Zubair says, "I did not find anyone more proficient (than Aisha ®) in the knowledge of the Holy Quran, the Commandments of Halal (lawful) and Haram (prohibited), Ilmul-Ansab and Arabic poetry. That is why, even senior companions of the Prophet used to consult Aisha ® in resolving intricate issued".Jala-ul-Afham by Ibn Qaiyem and Ibn Sa'ad, Vol.2, p.26
Abu Musa al-Ashari says: "Never had we (the companions) had any difficulty for the solution of which we approached Aisha and did not get some useful information from her".Sirat-I-Aisha, on the authority of Trimidhi, pg. 163

As a teacher she had a clear and persuasive manner of speech and her power of oratory has been described in superlative terms by al-Ahnaf who said: "I have heard speeches of Abu Bakr and Umar, Uthman and Ali and the Khulafa up to this day, but I have not heard speech more persuasive and more beautiful from the mouth of any person than from the mouth of Aishah."
The Prophet said, "The superiority of 'Aisha to other ladies is like the superiority of Tharid (i.e. meat and bread dish) to other meals. Many men reached the level of perfection, but no woman reached such a level except Mary, the daughter of Imran and Asia, the wife of Pharaoh." Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith, Narrated by Abu Musa Al Ashari Hadith 4.643
Musa Ibn Talha ® says, "I did not see anyone more eloquent than Aisha ®" Mustadrak of Hakim, Vol.4,p.11

Men and women came from far and wide to benefit from her knowledge.
Aisha's great interest in the study of the Qur'an is understandable. She was an eye-witness to a number of revelations and had therefore a clear idea of the circumstances in which they were revealed. It was on her bed alone (and no other consort's) that the Prophet received Wahi (Divine Revelations) several times. This helped her in interpreting the verses.
At the time of the Prophet's death, the Prophet's head was on her lap. It was in her quarters that the Prophet was buried.
The life of Aishah (R) is a proof that a woman can be far more learned than men and that she can be the teacher of scholars and experts. Her life is also a proof that a woman can exert influence over men and women and provide them with inspiration and leadership. Aisha (R) is a continuing inspiration and role model to today's youth who are diligently searching for an example amongst the pop stars, movie actresses and sports stars. May the memory of her's live forever in the heart of the Muslim Ummah and may Allah grant her the highest abode in Paradise…Aameen.

Conclusion:
It was the aforementioned qualities of Aisha ® and the Prophet's guidance in molding these capabilities for the service of Islam, were the main reasons, why the Prophet Married young Aisha ®, and not the perverted reasons brought forth by misguided orientalists.

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I believe in God and that's that

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Originally Posted by Marily

I believe in God and thats that

I believe in God also. I just don't accept secondhand hearsay testimony, & I believe that is what the bible is.

All religion is man-made, created for man for the justification and use by man. The religious books are written by man and interpreted by man. There is absolutely nothing divine about them. Proven fact if you do research - King James i.e. King James version, re-wrote the bible to suit him. Go figure.

Really? I never knew.

Long ago in the time of universal illiteracy and lack of knowledge and simple facts, various tribes had "wise men" who they believed received knowledge and information directly from "Gods" by *revelation*... in the middle east, the Jews had prophets. Revelations were supposed to be The Truth spoken by prophets.

Now, in the Twenty-First Century knowledge, facts and information(TRUTH) come from science and research direct experience, etc.etc.. . not from one person's revelation.

The definition of Truth is that it is *verifiable*.

Since the supernatural is not verifiable, religion still remains in the area of FAITH/BELIEF. What people chose to believe. Opinion since there are so many religions and denominations.