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Does anyone believe they might of existed? Its strange because there are legends of them everywhere, including places that never came into contact. And as fanciful as it sounds don't you think that it might be possible?
Although, there is the wizard's first rule: People will believe anything they want to believe, or fear to believe. -Zedd
I think the belief in dragons came from the finding of dinosaur bones
But legends of dragons go farther back than the first recorded discovery of dino bones.
I think legends are mostly elaborated and dramatised tales to fascinate(sometimes scare) the people of the time...
Even if there were lizard and flying animals, it might not have been the same as the dragons described in most books..
Just my 2 cents.:)
The dragon is a mythical creature typically depicted as a gigantic and powerful serpent or other reptile with magical or spiritual qualities. One should do an in-depth study before taking any decision.
As with every mythological creature, dragons are perceived in different ways by different cultures. They are commonly portrayed as serpentine or reptilian, hatching from eggs and possessing extremely large, typically feathery or scaly, bodies; they are sometimes portrayed as having large eyes, a feature that is the origin for the word for dragon in many cultures, and are often (but not always) portrayed with, a row of dorsal spines, bat-like wings and a fiery breath. Some dragons do not have wings at all, but look more like long snakes. Dragons can have a variable number of legs: none, two, four, or more when it comes to early European literature. Modern depictions of dragons are very large in size, but some early European depictions of dragons were only the size of bears, or, in some cases, even smaller, around the size of a butterfly.
Most experts on mythology and folklore argue that legends of dragons are based upon ordinary snakes and similar creatures coupled with common psychological fears amongst disparate groups of humans.
Some believe that the dragon may have had a real-life counterpart from which the various legends arose — typically dinosaurs or other archosaurs are mentioned as a possibility — but there is no physical evidence to support this claim, only alleged sightings collected by cryptozoologists. In a common variation of this hypothesis, giant lizards such as Megalania are substituted for the living dinosaurs. Some believe dragons are mental manifestations representing an assembly of inherent human fears of reptiles, teeth, claws, size and fire in combination.
Dragon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It is known that people go through weird dreams. They may interpret some minor
facts with dream beings.
Yeah that sounds kind of more reasonable, but hey maybe I'm just wishing they existed.
What is your resource for this claim?Quote:
Originally Posted by Varoth
BBC - h2g2 - Dinosaurs of The Isle of Wight - Dinosaur Hunters. And that and I asked my cousin who is a paleontologist major.
That's is a very vast BBC article, much like asking someone to read Wikipedia or Britannica Online. Could you please be more specific?Quote:
Originally Posted by Varoth
However, I read the opening page and saw nothing that referenced the existence of dragon legends to before the first recorded discovery of dinosaur bones. But even legend doesn't prove that they have ever actually existed.
Do you have anything other than legend to show of dragon's existence or are you only claiming the legend of dragons came before the discovery of dinosaur bones?
Okay, dragon legends have been passed down far before the first RECORDED discovery of dino bones i.e. 1829. Now if some one can find a RECORDED discovery of dino bones before the at least 10th century, then I might agree with templelane. Now yes I was saying the LEGEND of dragons goes back farther. And what I was getting at is there might be something ELSE they might have based the legend on. Like a flying lizard. That breathes fire. Or something. I don't know, its just that is where my thought process went.
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Did Dragons Ever Exist?
Let's first look some of the earlier stories about Dragons. The very first "written" stories (that we have uncovered so far) on the creation of the world is from the Sumerian civilization generally in the area we call Mesopotania. This area which later became Persia and then part of various Middle East civilization is generally found between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers in what is now Iraq and Iran.
The actual word "dragon" comes from the Greek language much later than this time so any mundane interpretation of creatures by this name before the Greeks must be by descriptions and attributes and not by name. They were generally considered "monsters" even if they had divine attributes.
The very origins and foundations of the entire Mesopotamian culture comes from the stories, culture, and ethics of these Sumerians. The later civilizations of the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, and then Grecians all got much of their philosophy, cosmology, and religion from the earlier stories/ myths of the Sumerians so it behooves us to first look at these early very early stories and pay particular attention to them.
In fact so many of the stories sprout the same type of general story line that we can actually divide them into two categories; Gods versus monsters (dragons) before creation and heroes versus monsters after creation. Later versions of the stories often change the names of the parties about but maintain the basic story line. Is it possible that all these stories came from a single source and was later simply adapted, adopted, and some elements changed to suit the civilization telling it? This is a possibility to be considered about these first stories. Many later dragon stories will also be changed in the same manner by different areas or countries but with the same original tale.
The earlier myths often have a god, usually a storm god or a god armed with thunder and lightning bolts, chasing a dragon that has something to do with water. Examples are almost all of the Mesopotamian stories, the Indian god Indra, both Chinese and Japanese myths, the Mayan Rain Gods, the Egyptian sea dragon/serpent Apophis and pursuer Re, and even many early Semitic stories.
From the very start Dragons were seen as guarding treasures, holding back the floods, and dispensing knowledge. They also are battled by gods or heroes from the very beginning. In many cases stories from the Sumerians were borrowed and slightly changed by the preceding civilizations. These same stories were very similar in content but with the actual names of the participants changed.
The first written commentary, found on clay tablets, uses the names of Asag, a monster/dragon (sometimes named as Kur) and Ninurta, a god/hero. Later we are introduced to this same god/hero as Marduk by the Babylonians and the dragons name has been changed to Tiamet. There is some confusion here as the preserved evidence is not in good shape or complete.
In the Babylonian version called the "Enuma elish" Tiamet is one of the original pair of god and goddess at the founding of the universe. From these two all later creatures, good or bad, came into creation. This Goddess is in effect the "mother of all."
In the beginning of the tale Tiamet defends her offspring and all of creation from all the minions and forces of evil. But later, when her husband Apsu is killed, she apparently goes mad and decides to end all creation in her grief. This irrational action pits her against all the other Gods and one of her offspring, named Marduk, is talked into opposing her.
In the fight that ensues Marduk finally kills her by shooting an arrow into her mouth as she tries to swallow him. She is a shape shifter as most or all early Dragons are assumed to be so fought him in different guises. Even time seems to be effect which will come up again in the dragons versions. After the battle he uses her dragon body to form the earth and from death we have life and substance.
The first epic of the hero or human and dragon encounter is the "Epic of Gilgamesh." This we know of by clay tablets from Semitic origin. But these tablets are telling about much earlier versions of the story. Here the hero is pitted against a Dragon named Humbaba who also has shape shifting abilities. Gilgamesh with the aid of the god Shamash finally kills the Dragon but gets in trouble with those other gods who were friends with or supported the Dragon and so has a pyrrhic victory and some penalties for his action are imposed.
Not much later we find the Egyptians with a similar story of either Re the sun god or Seth the hero destroying the snake or Dragon named Apophis. Again there is much confusion and contradictions. In this story both the side of good and the side of evil have attributes of the dragon. So once again we see the idea that the winner of the contest with the dragon take on the attributes of the dragon.
The Hittites have a story of the battle of a storm god with the Dragon named Illuyankas which also has contradictions and different versions but also follows the earlier stories in general details.
Later on we get several versions from the Grecian civilization. There is the story of Zeus fighting Typhon. Typhon is described as "Up from his shoulders there grew a hundred snake heads, those of a dreaded dragon." We will deal with the relationship between snakes and dragons a little latter. But suffice for now to say they are essentially the same. And again this monster/dragon is slain by a mighty thunderbolt from Zeus.
Very similar to this is the story of Apollo and Python. Python is alternately described in different versions of the story as a giant snake or a female dragon with many coils. In any case in some versions she is killed by Apollo when the young god shoots an arrow down her throat. But in other version she is taken into his service and becomes a protected oracular serpent at Delphi. It is interesting to note that both Grecian and Romans had serpents or dragons that were kept at various temples including Delphi that were considered to have great knowledge.
It is also interesting that Hercules himself consulted the Oracle of Delphi and was directed on his "12 labors" by the advice he got their. Included in his labors were the destroying of the dragons Ladon and Hydra of the Seven heads.
A good example of another Greek hero is Perseus who instead of fighting for good versus evil killed a dragon that was about to devour the princess Andromeda in order to marry her and gain a kingdom. The dragon was sent by the god Poseidon or Neptune to avenge an insult.
Another hero dragonslayer was Jason who along with his companions the Argonauts had to overcome the unsleeping "dragon of a thousand coils" who guarded the golden fleece. In one version the dragon is ensorcelled into sleeping and they stole away unharmed with the treasure. In another Jason fought the dragon who was a sea dragon and lost the fight and so was swallowed. It was only by intersession of the god Athene that the dragon gave up her prey.
An interesting story related to Jason is that of Cadmus who later went on to be the King of Thebes. He was also given advice by the Oracle of Delphi (who was herself a dragon) that eventually led him to fight and kill a golden crested dragon at the spring of Ares. For killing this dragon Cadmus was forced to serve the god Ares for a year but was then allowed to found his city from the children of the dragons teeth.
Copied from A History of Dragons
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You continually state things about the legend being this or that. I'm not here to argue but to discuss with you, but you don't site your evidence... RECORDED evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varoth
Many stories and legends are past down through time. Many modified and morphed. Some purely folklore, perhaps made up in a pub or around a campfire...
And you're not addressing whether peoples from the 10th century or before would even know if a dinosaur bone was different from that of a bear or moose, giraffe or elephant...
I think that a dragon was another species of dinosaurs. Who knows maybe a few species of dino survived whatever killed the rest, if humans and animals survived why can't some other dinos survive. I think that legends of dragons were real but exaggerated, if the stories were passed down from earlier times then it most likely got changed a little bit down the line.
It might be worth looking at the (Pulitzer Prize) winning book Dragons of Eden by Carl Sagan which discusses this very question. If you don't know who Carl Sagan was, I highly recommend looking him up on Wikipaedia. He is just as interesting, probably more so, than dragons
Carl Sagan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In the bible, dragons are mentioned, like in apocalypse, and also the leviathan could be a sort of sea dragon or something. I do think dragons existed, because dragon myths are all around the world. The mayan/aztec quetzalcoatl was a dragon-like creature, the chinese dragons, english dragons like in saint george's story, danish/viking dragons like the ?nidghogg? also the dragons in the bible. Im not sure if dragon myths in north american culture, (but you get the point).
The person above me has a valid point, although in the bible the dragon is supposed to represent satan. But I remember an old bible I had does talk of an actual dragon, the bible had some books of the bible that were left out of other bibles. I think it was called The Good News Bible, the name of the book was caled Bel and the Dragon.
Ever heard of bearded "dragons" frilled "dragons" but for fire breating flying dragons... if they found the bones then sure why not?
I think Dragons exist.
There might have been alien visitors to our planet in ancient times, and people of many different races might have seen them.
Or, they might exist in another dimension, and only a few individuals can sometimes see them.
Anyway, I think those legends are based on some facts. There are some conspiracy and New Age books out there on dragons and aliens and stuff like that. I read a few, and they're thoroughly confusing :)) and sometimes, very exciting :) or scary :(
Dinosaur bones could have triggered fantasies about dragons, but why do they fly in most legends?
Anyway, I believe that dragons still exist. Most likely, even on our planet.
Can you imagine lying asleep in a thatched roof hut and a huge Dragon flys over and hits you with a 250 pound poo bomb? I mean, this would be worse than Owl poo with all them little rat bones in it. This would be deer and human bones mixed in slimey green poo slamming through your thatched roof throttling you to the floor, suffocating you with a stench that cannot be easily imagined. With that in mind, I'm glad they never existed or if they did, I thank all of those brave Dragon slayers for risking their lives so we can live without being slammed with a 250 pound Dragon poo bomb.
[QUOTE=firmbeliever]I think legends are mostly elaborated and dramatised tales to fascinate(sometimes scare) the people of the time...
I believe that everything is true. Religion is elaborated and dramatized tales to fascinate (sometimes scare) the people of any time.
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