Ask Me Help Desk - Floor Drain Help

Hello:

I have a house that was built around 1948. It is a two story house with a basement. In the basement the floor drain has been backing up recently. My instinct is to snake the floor drain. However, I want to understand the function of the various pipes before I begin. I have attached a picture of my floor drain. There were two steel grates that I removed. The first grate was flush with the floor. The second grate covered the bottom hole. There are also two side underground clay pipes. One goes in the direction of my upstair's kitchen sink drain pipe. The other goes in the direction of the drain for my upstair's toilet. However, when I flush the toilet or run the kitchen sink no discharge seems to flow from these sources.

My questions:

First, what is the purpose of the side two pipes?
Second, why would there my a grate over the bottom hole?
Third, the water never drains completely from the bottom hole, is this normal?
Fourth, I ran a garden house into one of the side pipes, and lots of black murky sludge washed out into the bottom hole, is this normal?
Fifth, is there anything I should know before snaking the variouos pipes(especially since they are clay)?

Any help is appreciated. Keep inmind, I know very little about plumbing, so I will not understand plumber lingo. Thanks!

http://192.168.15.109/~Terrin/P1010009.JPG

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpaluchniak

Hello:

I have a house that was built around 1948. It is a two story house with a basement. In the basement the floor drain has been backing up recently. My instinct is to snake the floor drain. However, I want to understand the function of the various pipes before I begin. I have attached a picture of my floor drain. There were two steel grates that I removed. The first grate was flush with the floor. The second grate covered the bottom hole. There are also two side underground clay pipes. One goes in the direction of my upstair's kitchen sink drain pipe. The other goes in the direction of the drain for my upstair's toilet. However, when I flush the toilet or run the kitchen sink no discharge seems to flow from these sources.

My questions:

First, what is the purpose of the side two pipes?
Second, why would there my a grate over the bottom hole?
Third, the water never drains completely from the bottom hole, is this normal?
Fourth, I ran a garden house into one of the side pipes, and lots of black murky sludge washed out into the bottom hole, is this normal?
Fifth, is there anything I should know before snaking the variouos pipes(especially since they are clay)?

Any help is appreciated. Keep inmind, I know very little about plumbing, so I will not understand plumber lingo. Thanks!

http://192.168.15.109/~Terrin/P1010009.JPG

Your picture came through as a redX inside a white box. Try again. Tom

I am not sure why the picture is not showing on your computer. I see it on mine. Nonetheless, thank you for the quick reply and the picture can be viewed at :

http://192.168.15.102/~Terrin/drain2.jpg

Terrin

:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpaluchniak

I am not sure why the picture is not showing on your computer. I see it on mine. Nonetheless, thank you for the quick reply and the picture can be viewed at :

http://192.168.15.102/~Terrin/drain2.jpg

Terrin

:)

Now I see. I did not leave the complete URL last time. I appoligize.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpaluchniak

I am not sure why the picture is not showing on your computer. I see it on mine. Nonetheless, thank you for the quick reply and the picture can be viewed at :

http://192.168.15.102/~Terrin/drain2.jpg

Terrin

:)

Het Terrin,

And this time when I clicked on it It came up "This page Can not be Displayed" Try sending it to my mail box. [email protected] head it PLUMBING so it won't go into jumk mail. Cheers, Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedball1

het Terrin,

And this time when I clicked on it It came up "This page Can not be Displayed" Try sending it to my mail box. [email protected] head it PLUMBING so it won't go into jumk mail. Cheers, Tom

I sent it directly to you! Again any help is highly appreciated.

Terrin

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpaluchniak

Hello:

I have a house that was built around 1948. It is a two story house with a basement. In the basement the floor drain has been backing up recently. My instinct is to snake the floor drain. However, I want to understand the function of the various pipes before I begin. I have attached a picture of my floor drain. There were two steel grates that I removed. The first grate was flush with the floor. The second grate covered the bottom hole. There are also two side underground clay pipes. One goes in the direction of my upstair's kitchen sink drain pipe. The other goes in the direction of the drain for my upstair's toilet. However, when I flush the toilet or run the kitchen sink no discharge seems to flow from these sources.

My questions:

First, what is the purpose of the side two pipes?
Second, why would there my a grate over the bottom hole?
Third, the water never drains completely from the bottom hole, is this normal?
Fourth, I ran a garden house into one of the side pipes, and lots of black murky sludge washed out into the bottom hole, is this normal?
Fifth, is there anything I should know before snaking the variouos pipes(especially since they are clay)?

Any help is appreciated. Keep inmind, I know very little about plumbing, so I will not understand plumber lingo. Thanks!

Hey Terrinm,

Eureka! Success at last. You're lucky that you caught a old time plumber that remembers your contraption. I haven't one of those since I left Wisconsin in 1955. You are correct it is a floor drain. But it's also a catch basin. The two pipes are drains, the bottom grate is a strainer for the two pipes that discharge into it and the top grate serves the floor drain. If you will look down underneath one of the pipes your will see a square chunk of metal. That square is the boss of a 1 1/2" threaded plug that threads into a opening that bypases the trap and when removed reveals the floor drain cleanout. The standing water you see at the bottom is the water in the trap. It seals out sewer gas from entering your house. Do not snake the Terra-Cotta (clay) pipes as you will be snaking against the flow and that is defiantly not a good idea. Besides, that won't snake the floor drain. All drainage pipes have "black murky sludge", that's the nature of the beast.
I've tried to keep this as simple as possible and not rain any "plumber lingo" down on you. Thanks for hanging in there with the photo. That old fitting brought back a lot of memories. Regards, Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedball1

Hey Terrinm,

Eureka!! Success at last. You're lucky that you caught a old time plumber that remembers your contraption. I haven't one of those since I left Wisconsin in 1955. You are correct it is a floor drain. But it's also a catch basin. The two pipes are drains, the bottom grate is a strainer for the two pipes that discharge into it and the top grate serves the floor drain. If you will look down underneath one of the pipes your will see a square chunk of metal. That square is the boss of a 1 1/2" threaded plug that threads into a opening that bypases the trap and when removed reveals the floor drain cleanout. The standing water you see at the bottom is the water in the trap. It seals out sewer gas from entering your house. Do not snake the Terra-Cotta (clay) pipes as you will be snaking against the flow and that is defiantly not a good idea. Besides, that won't snake the floor drain. All drainage pipes have "black murky sludge", that's the nature of the beast.
I've tried to keep this as simple as possible and not rain any "plumber lingo" down on you. Thanks for hanging in there with the photo. That old fitting brought back a lot of memories. regards, Tom

I am very lucky indeed! Living in Michigan, Wisconsin reminds me of the football beating that Michigan took yesterday. Ouch.

Seriously, thank you very much for the explanation! I was having the hardest time understanding the system and from experience I knew I should not proceed until I somewhat knew how it worked.

I asked a few different people who seemed somewhat familiar with plumbing and none could understand my set up. One said the bottom grate probably was placed there accidentally. I knew that was not right. Another said the two pipes should have plugs on them. That did not seem right either. I also thought the objective was to get the water to go away from the bottom pipe. I know now I do not want that to happen.

I see the two bosses at the bottom of the two pipes that you referred to. One looks like it is newer, so my guess is that will come off OK. The other one looks like it could be trouble. If I get them off, snaking down those pipes are OK, right? Also, would running a garden house down the holes once I get the bosses off be OK to clean the pipes out?

I also have a different question. I want to install a toilet down in this basement (I probably will call in help for the task). All I see for plumbing is the two pipes I told you about before with the bosses at the bottom of them, and a rather big boss that comes out from the side of the wall by the water meter. Do you think this job will call for someone having to break the concrete to create another hole that is flush with the floor (I could send you another picture).

Again, your great! Thank you so much.

Terrin

Hi Terrin,

Glad we cleared the floor drain mystery up. No problem sticking a garden hose up the clay piles just don't snake them. As for adding a toilet you will have to locate the 4" main and cut in a 4" wye or combination wye and 1/8th bend to pick up the toilet. May I suggest using a NO-Hub fitting coming off the main and converting to PVC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedball1

Hi Terrin,

Glad we cleared the floor drain mystery up. No problem sticking a garden hose up the clay piles just don't snake them. As for adding a toilet you will have to locate the 4" main and cut in a 4" wye or combination wye and 1/8th bend to pick up the toilet. May I suggest using a NO-Hub fitting coming off the main and converting to PVC.

I am going to do what ever you suggest that I do! Unfortuntely, I do not know how the wye would work. I also do not know what a No-hub fitting is. I sent you a few pictures of my plumbing system.

Like I said I know little about plumbing, but being a poor college student I wish to do what I can before I have to call in the pros.

I am confused. For a toilet, the pipe has to come underneath the toilet right? So if the toilet is going in the bathroom, would I have to build a platform for the pipe to go under once I cut into the main pipe? Again, thanks!

Terrin

HiTerrin,

"I do not know how the wye would work. I also do not know what a No-hub fitting is."
You don't have much of a choice to branch off to your toilet. Wye or combo. Depending on where you wish the pipe to go.
The name No-Hub is self explanatory. It's a cast iron fitting that uses metal bands to connect rather then poured lead joints. Much more user friendly.

"I am confused. For a toilet, the pipe has to come underneath the toilet right? So if the toilet is going in the bathroom, would I have to build a platform for the pipe to go under once I cut into the main pipe?"

No platform. The cement floor would be jackhammered and trenches dug for the drainage. All drainage would be concealed when the floor is patched.

My advice? Call in a plumber. Have him lay the job out and make a list of materials. Ask him if local codes will make you run a vent for the toilet. If so consider adding a lavatory. Then rent a jackhammer and do the dirty work yourself and chase the materials. You will save a lot of man hours in labor if you do.
Good luck, Tom

Thanks a lot. I really apprecaite the advice.

Terrin