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-   -   GFI outlets versus grounding electric (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=129157)

  • Sep 13, 2007, 10:06 AM
    LjpJlo
    GFI outlets versus grounding electric
    I am currently in the process of buying a house. The house is 84 years old, and the electric is updated to 220, however, during a home inspection there were many outlets that were not grounded. Now, the realtors are suggesting that they will put in GFI outlets for the outlets that are not grounded, instead of paying for an electrician to ground the outlets.
    Will we need to keep resetting the GFI outlets? And will this take care of the problem of the outlets not being grounded? Of course safety is first, and I know this will make it so it is safe, but we want to be able to use the outlets as if they were grounded. I really need some assistance in this area. Thanks.:o
  • Sep 13, 2007, 10:31 AM
    KISS
    GFCI's are NOT a substitute for grounding. Without grounding surge suppression devices won't work properly. TV's, VCR's, Telephones and microwaves might have interference issues. Ground is sometimes necessary for a reference and I'll give you a scenereo that actually happened at work.

    There was a bad ground in an outlet. A computer and some other devices were plugged into that outlet. The computer's power line filtering actually raised the potential of ground and there were sparks at another instrument when wires that were supposed to be at ground were touching ground. Result: Fried computer.

    Final conclusion: A defect in the outlets used in the building where the ground was only a pressure tab. The tolerences of the housing made it possible that when two plugs were inserted into an outlet the grounds let go. Potentially 420 outlets were affected.

    Final result: Laboratory areas outlets got changed.

    Outlets that were used were tested and replaced. When computers were added to offices the office outlets were tested and replaced if necessary.

    The hard part was finding it which I did.

    GFCI's just measure the difference of current flowing in the neutral and hot leads. If it exceeds about 0.006 Amps it trips. 0.011 Amps across the heart muscle to stop the heart.
    This is why kitchens, bathrooms and pool areas require them.

    AFCI's or Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters look for the signature of a spark and these are required for bedroom and living room areas.
  • Sep 13, 2007, 10:37 AM
    biggsie
    Replaced or rewired bathroom, kitchen, garage and exterior outlets must be GFI protected.

    Bedrooms, living rooms, dining rooms and outlets for refrigerator or freezer can get by with

    Grounded three prong outlets in most cases -- running ground wire should be acceptable

    When new three prong outlet is installed -- check out this site

    Rewiring older homes

    If this helps please rate my answer
  • Sep 13, 2007, 10:42 AM
    LjpJlo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LjpJlo
    I am currently in the process of buying a house. The house is 84 years old, and the electric is updated to 220, however, during a home inspection there were many outlets that were not grounded. Now, the realtors are suggesting that they will put in GFI outlets for the outlets that are not grounded, instead of paying for an electrician to ground the outlets.
    Will we need to keep resetting the GFI outlets? and will this take care of the problem of the outlets not being grounded? Of course safety is first, and I know this will make it so it is safe, but we want to be able to use the outlets as if they were grounded. I really need some assistance in this area. Thanks.:o

    I appreciate your answer. So are you telling me that if they change the 2 prong outlets with GFI outlets, and I use those outlets in my home office, that I will either have to keep resetting my outlet or have problems with my computer and other equipment?

    This is becoming a major issue with finalizing the deal with this house. When we first looked at the house, the outlets were all 3-prong outlets, so we were made to believe that the electric was updated. Then upon inspection, we come to find out that many of the outlets were not grounded. We stated we wanted the outlets grounded, since that was one of the reasons we put in the offer that we did, and they are telling us that they would be willing to put in GFI outlets.
    What type of problems will we have if we are using GFI outlets that are not grounded?
    I just want to be sure I am understanding this issue, since I went to school to be an attorney, and not an electrician. And I want to make sure that we are not being ripped off by being given misleading security and safety when it comes to our electric.
  • Sep 13, 2007, 10:53 AM
    labman
    A GFCI will provide much of the same protection as a grounded outlet in a different way. They meet code if labeled no equipment ground. Depending how the house was originally wired, installing grounded outlets could mean ripping up the walls and rewiring. If it has BX or metallic conduit, that was installed correctly and is intact, just replacing the outlets with 3 prong ones will leave them grounded. That isn't as reliable as the current practice of running a green wire too in metal conduit or __-2 with ground NM-B. The GFCI protects people from shocks, but doesn't give a ground to equipment needing it.
  • Sep 13, 2007, 10:58 AM
    KISS
    All the problems that I said would happen with ungrounded outlets GFI or otherwise.

    Remember GFI protection can be alternatively done at the panel by changing the circuit breaker.

    GFI's don't need a ground to work, but they need to be labeled as an ungrounded GFI.

    An example problem:

    A desktop computer connected via USB to a printer. All with 3-wire cords plugged into a 3-wire surge supressor into an ungrounded outlet (GFCI or not - doesn't matter).

    An example no problem

    A desktop computer connected via Ethernet to a printer with or without a hub or switch. Again plugged into 3-wire surge suppressor into an ungrounded outlet. Ethernet is transformer coupled, so it's isolated.

    Add a modem connected to either computer which could be used for faxing or dial-up networking and you could have a potential problem again.

    An all in one printer/fax would also have the potential of being a problem because it has USB and telephone connections.

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